[Fe] The Fe wiki description

[Z Buck McFate]

I'm just curious how much other FJs feel the typo c wiki Fe characteristics (and/or, Fe descriptions in general) apply to them.

Fe Characteristics

As compared to those that use Introverted Feeling (Fi), individuals that use the cognitive function of Extraverted Feeling (Fe) tend towards the following:

• seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs
• are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values
• express emotion with intentionality and forethought for optimal effect
• seek to objectively understand the feelings of others
• have a harder time confronting others; are more diplomatic
• seek harmony with others
• are more practical; willing to make compromises
• focus on understanding how the group works, connects, gets along (or doesn’t) and all of their views, decides what course of action is most amenable to the intended goal while accommodating the most people
• assess consistency of behavior of individuals and behavior with social protocols
• focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations that others seem have
• are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other
• focus on how decisions, actions, or expressed opinions are going to be reacted to, countered or felt by others and weighing benefits and costs of the course of action

I'm looking to hear from FJs- is there anything about this list of characteristics you'd have to alter in order to agree that it applies to you personally? Or to other FJs you know? I've never related much to Fe descriptions, and I'm wondering how much of that is just me.

I'll be posting my own criticism of this list when I finish typing it up, but I'm going to post this now.

[ [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION], [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION], [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION], [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION], [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION], [MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION] ...that's all that's coming to mind immediately, but input from anyone who identifies as FJ would be welcome/appreciated.]

 

[VagrantFarce]

Just spent the last couple of years working with an Fe type. The impressions that linger:

• I can recognise the focus on what "everyone else" is feeling, rather than what the individual feels.
• A tendency to defer to others, but still positioning themselves as "directing" things. Can be frustratingly passive-aggressive without knowing it.
• There can be an adaptability, but also an insincerity.
• Confrontation isn't difficult if they're championing everyone else, but you get the sense that they don't have the same "inner flame" that Fi-types do. More likely to chew someone out because they're not contributing in a harmonious way more than anything else

Admittedly more negative than some might want...

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

• seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs
• are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values
• express emotion with intentionality and forethought for optimal effect
• seek to objectively understand the feelings of others
• have a harder time confronting others; are more diplomatic
• seek harmony with others
• are more practical; willing to make compromises
• focus on understanding how the group works, connects, gets along (or doesn’t) and all of their views, decides what course of action is most amenable to the intended goal while accommodating the most people
• assess consistency of behavior of individuals and behavior with social protocols
• focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations that others seem have
• are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other
• focus on how decisions, actions, or expressed opinions are going to be reacted to, countered or felt by others and weighing benefits and costs of the course of action

I suppose I can relate to these, but I find the process exhausting. I'm not energized by it. Strangely enough I don't do well while in a group, but I analyze external behaviors and interactions within and amongst people. I just can't participate in what I observe with much success. I also am not as comfortable with "social protocols", and feel pressured by those. For the most part this list is a description of Fe I can identify with better than other lists I can remember reading because it focuses on analyzing behaviors and attempting to be as objective as possible about it.

Edit: I'm not certain about being Fe over Fi, so take my response with a grain of salt.

 

[Tilt]

Why is there a distinction between diplomacy and confrontation? If you're skilled at diplomacy, then you're good at handling confrontation, just without being a jerk about it. Many people just aren't good at being diplomatic but have learned the art of pussyfooting without resolving the conflict at hand.

 

[VagrantFarce]

Why is there a distinction between diplomacy and confrontation? If you're skilled at diplomacy, then you're good at handling confrontation, just without being a jerk about it. Many people just aren't good at being diplomatic but have learned the art of pussyfooting without resolving the conflict at hand.

I don't think it's meant as an absolute, more of a tendency. But you're right.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

It hits me pretty square on, but still feels like it is missing something.

Every bullet point is on target, except the values one, as I have no problem charting my own path. I accommodate my principles

Just spent the last couple of years working with an Fe type. The impressions that linger:

.....
Confrontation isn't difficult if they're championing everyone else, but you get the sense that they don't have the same "inner flame" that Fi-types do. More likely to chew someone out because they're not contributing in a harmonious way more than anything else.

I am way better at championing others or the group than myself. It just feels wrong to put myself out for my own benefit..... I have no problem defending someone else to the T, but struggle to do so for myself.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I'm just curious how much other FJs feel the typo c wiki Fe characteristics (and/or, Fe descriptions in general) apply to them.

Fe Characteristics

As compared to those that use Introverted Feeling (Fi), individuals that use the cognitive function of Extraverted Feeling (Fe) tend towards the following:

• seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs
• are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values I am not ruled by anything, except God and my mate.
• express emotion with intentionality and forethought for optimal effect I express emotion as I see fit, and am spontaneous with it. I trust that it will come out right
  [*]seek to objectively understand the feelings of others
• have a harder time confronting others; are more diplomatic No. Maybe I used to. But not anymore. This could be due to age.
• seek harmony with others Yes and no. It isn't my primary motivator. I seek the truth above all.
• are more practical; willing to make compromises Hmm. Not if a truth or value is at risk.
• focus on understanding how the group works, connects, gets along (or doesn’t) and all of their views, decides what course of action is most amenable to the intended goal while accommodating the most people I have a problem with the word focus in these last sentences. I do not focus on these things, though I might notice them or take consideration of them.
• assess consistency of behavior of individuals and behavior with social protocols Protocols and established 'norms' mean little to me overall. I am capable of knowing and following my own mores based upon my worldview. I usually find faults with established mores.
• focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations that others seem have
• are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other
• focus on how decisions, actions, or expressed opinions are going to be reacted to, countered or felt by others and weighing benefits and costs of the course of action The focus thing is a no.

I'm looking to hear from FJs- is there anything about this list of characteristics you'd have to alter in order to agree that it applies to you personally? Or to other FJs you know? I've never related much to Fe descriptions, and I'm wondering how much of that is just me.

I'll be posting my own criticism of this list when I finish typing it up, but I'm going to post this now.

[ [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION], [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION], [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION], [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION], [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION], [MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION] ...that's all that's coming to mind immediately, but input from anyone who identifies as FJ would be welcome/appreciated.]

I bolded the ones I identify with in your OP above. I must say I thought I would be bolding most of them, but as I read through them, one or more clauses in each sentence did not actually jive with me. For examples, see the colored comments.

Maybe I am more Fi than I realized.

 

[Tilt]

I don't think it's meant as an absolute, more of a tendency. But you're right.

Ha. True. I would argue that diplomacy isn't exactly the right word but that's just nitpicking.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It's maybe worth mentioning- the reason I started this thread is because I was thinking of tweaking the wiki page. I sometimes think my qualms with typical Fe descriptions are the product of (me) being INF, NF, e5, least so instinct variant or all (or some) of the above. I rarely relate to any Fe description. As I written many times before, if I didn't have a pretty good idea of type before finding this forum (and hearing more about 'cognitive functions'), I'd probably have identified as NFP for a while, because of the Fi descriptions out there. Point here being: I'm pretty sure the descriptions are at least a little bit awry, but I don't want to tweak the wiki page until I'm confident I'm not just tweaking it to describe myself.

I'll post the part of my own response to the wiki page I've finished. I'll post the rest later, and I'll have to read the responses above later too. (Thanks for the above responses though.)

• seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs

I seek to understand human behavior. I can honestly say that my own reactions (both internal and external) are as baffling/intriguing puzzle pieces to me as those of other people. I've seen it said that Fi types understand other people through understanding themselves, and honestly, I don't understand how there could possibly be another alternative. All types understand others through understanding themselves. I do think FJs can maybe become more distracted by the behaviors and such of other people- and maybe therefore feel more of a need to apply that understanding (derived from the self and one's own experience) to others. But it's paradoxical to me to suggest a type would seek to understand others more than understanding the self- because it's not possible.

• are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values

I think “ruled” is a poor choice of words. Speaking only for myself, it seems more to me like I am able to notice the objective and more broadly accepted values around me and I am generally able to go along with the flow of them without my sense of 'self' (the morals and values that make me 'me') feeling threatened or put at any risk. I generally do not need things around me to stop because there's an objective or broadly accepted value around me that doesn't match my internal value system. [I keep italicizing “generally” because these things are only true to a point- repeated exposure to an external system that I can't begin to go along with can become very toxic to me.]

I could absolutely be wrong about this, but I think FJs have a hard time understanding this need in others (a need for something in the external world to change or stop immediately for immediate investigation/questioning because there's an internal/external incongruence of values, or something)- because it is not a need we have ourselves. We are capable of making an observation about the incongruence between inner value and external value and letting thoughts about it bake internally, whilst externally continuing to go along with an incongruent value. This isn't something we do consciously, it's just autopilot- as such, it takes conscious effort to realize (1) it's something we do and (2) it's not something everyone does. When we don't take this into account, we can be very critical of people who aren't doing this. Hence, I think this is where the “FJs need 'the group' to have singular values” stigma comes from: from us not realizing that others don't have a cache of 'personal values' safely tucked away in the same way we do and our expectation for them to compartmentalize issues until they're a little more fully cooked (which they can't, because they don't have that cache), and from others not realizing that we have that cache (and thinking whatever we're going along with externally must match our internal value system…..simply because we're going along with it externally).

And so anyway, I think “ruled” is poor choice of words. I am largely ruled by my internal quest to flesh out my ideals, to flesh out the puzzle of being human, what it means to me to be human- and external stasis/calm gives me the most freedom with which to do this. The more people directly around me can immediately temporarily bend to objective values- and bring up their individual issues about those broadly accepted values after putting some thought into it, to make the resolution as efficient as possible, so they can very directly say what they need to change without needing me to be part of that process (iow: without needing me to drop everything and revolve around them because some internal value doesn't match the external system)- the more freedom I feel like I have to be able to do this for myself. So, I am- to some extent- ruled by the need for there to be some stasis/calm outside of me, but I am not ruled the terms of that stasis/calm. If that makes sense.

 

[Yama]

I'm going to put any comments I have in parenthesis, but lord only knows if I'm even an FJ at this point, so take it as you will. Ones that I'm neutral about will be left alone.

Fe Characteristics

As compared to those that use Introverted Feeling (Fi), individuals that use the cognitive function of Extraverted Feeling (Fe) tend towards the following:

• seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs (I don't really "seek" to do that... nor am I sure that I even do that at all.)
• are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values (my values are my values, if they happen to line up with society's views that's cool. I don't think there's really any such thing as objective values, or else there wouldn't be disagreements within a society--there would be no abortion argument, per say, because one side of the other would be sene as an objective value. I might be disinclined to express a value aloud that isn't socially accepted, but that doesn't mean I don't value it.)
• express emotion with intentionality and forethought for optimal effect (Nope nope nope. My emotions don't get expressed and they're pretty in the moment, not really thought out beforehand.)
• seek to objectively understand the feelings of others (I don't "seek" to do this, nor do I particularly care if I do.)
• have a harder time confronting others; are more diplomatic (100% spot on, but I am for sure an enneagram 9, which I relate this point to more so than Fe.)
• seek harmony with others (Same as the above comment.)
• are more practical; willing to make compromises (Yup.)
• focus on understanding how the group works, connects, gets along (or doesn’t) and all of their views, decides what course of action is most amenable to the intended goal while accommodating the most people (I guess? I don't really "focus" on this though. And I don't really know how groups work, I'm just more focused on everyone getting along and getting whatever task is at hand done. If someone is being quiet in a project-type group and not participating I'm not gonna force them to speak up, nor am I going to care about their grade. They're just useless deadweight. In a social friend-type group, I'm just there to have fun and be with my friends, I don't care about group dynamics, nor is it on my mind.)
• assess consistency of behavior of individuals and behavior with social protocols (To an extent? This is just socialization, not necessarily Fe.)
• focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations that others seem have (Uhh I have no idea. I don't "focus" on this. I'm not sure I even pay that much attention to other people to notice patterns beyond the extremely superficial.)
• are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other (Meh not really.)
• focus on how decisions, actions, or expressed opinions are going to be reacted to, countered or felt by others and weighing benefits and costs of the course of action (Yes, for sure.)

 

[highlander]

It's maybe worth mentioning- the reason I started this thread is because I was thinking of tweaking the wiki page. I sometimes think my qualms with typical Fe descriptions are the product of (me) being INF, NF, e5, least so instinct variant or all (or some) of the above. I rarely relate to any Fe description. As I written many times before, if I didn't have a pretty good idea of type before finding this forum (and hearing more about 'cognitive functions'), I'd probably have identified as NFP for a while, because of the Fi descriptions out there. Point here being: I'm pretty sure the descriptions are at least a little bit awry, but I don't want to tweak the wiki page until I'm confident I'm not just tweaking it to describe myself.

I'll post the part of my own response to the wiki page I've finished. I'll post the rest later, and I'll have to read the responses above later too. (Thanks for the above responses though.)

• seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs

I seek to understand human behavior. I can honestly say that my own reactions (both internal and external) are as baffling/intriguing puzzle pieces to me as those of other people. I've seen it said that Fi types understand other people through understanding themselves, and honestly, I don't understand how there could possibly be another alternative. All types understand others through understanding themselves. I do think FJs can maybe become more distracted by the behaviors and such of other people- and maybe therefore feel more of a need to apply that understanding (derived from the self and one's own experience) to others. But it's paradoxical to me to suggest a type would seek to understand others more than understanding the self- because it's not possible.

• are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values

I think “ruled” is a poor choice of words. Speaking only for myself, it seems more to me like I am able to notice the objective and more broadly accepted values around me and I am generally able to go along with the flow of them without my sense of 'self' (the morals and values that make me 'me') feeling threatened or put at any risk. I generally do not need things around me to stop because there's an objective or broadly accepted value around me that doesn't match my internal value system. [I keep italicizing “generally” because these things are only true to a point- repeated exposure to an external system that I can't begin to go along with can become very toxic to me.]

I could absolutely be wrong about this, but I think FJs have a hard time understanding this need in others (a need for something in the external world to change or stop immediately for immediate investigation/questioning because there's an internal/external incongruence of values, or something)- because it is not a need we have ourselves. We are capable of making an observation about the incongruence between inner value and external value and letting thoughts about it bake internally, whilst externally continuing to go along with an incongruent value. This isn't something we do consciously, it's just autopilot- as such, it takes conscious effort to realize (1) it's something we do and (2) it's not something everyone does. When we don't take this into account, we can be very critical of people who aren't doing this. Hence, I think this is where the “FJs need 'the group' to have singular values” stigma comes from: from us not realizing that others don't have a cache of 'personal values' safely tucked away in the same way we do and our expectation for them to compartmentalize issues until they're a little more fully cooked (which they can't, because they don't have that cache), and from others not realizing that we have that cache (and thinking whatever we're going along with externally must match our internal value system…..simply because we're going along with it externally).

And so anyway, I think “ruled” is poor choice of words. I am largely ruled by my internal quest to flesh out my ideals, to flesh out the puzzle of being human, what it means to me to be human- and external stasis/calm gives me the most freedom with which to do this. The more people directly around me can immediately temporarily bend to objective values- and bring up their individual issues about those broadly accepted values after putting some thought into it, to make the resolution as efficient as possible, so they can very directly say what they need to change without needing me to be part of that process (iow: without needing me to drop everything and revolve around them because some internal value doesn't match the external system)- the more freedom I feel like I have to be able to do this for myself. So, I am- to some extent- ruled by the need for there to be some stasis/calm outside of me, but I am not ruled the terms of that stasis/calm. If that makes sense.

Maybe it would be helpful to provide some context and history on what's written there. I wrote everything under Characteristics of Extraverted Feeling (Fe). It came out of a discussion in this thread. When the thread started, I would have to say that I didn't really understand Fe very well at all though towards the end, I felt like I had a much better understanding of it. The write up was my attempt to synthesize what people said in the thread up to about post 450. Post #453 is the summary that I pulled together where this came from.

Some of the mistakes in tone or word choice probably originate with my Te or Fi orientation such as use of the word "focus" or "ruled by". I think it would fantastic for someone who is an Fe user to help refine it.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Maybe it would be helpful to provide some context and history on what's written there. I wrote everything under Characteristics of Extraverted Feeling (Fe). It came out of a discussion in this thread. When the thread started, I would have to say that I didn't really understand Fe very well at all though towards the end, I felt like I had a much better understanding of it. The write up was my attempt to synthesize what people said in the thread up to about post 450. Post #453 is the summary that I pulled together where this came from.

Some of the mistakes in tone or word choice probably originate with my Te orientation such as use of the word "focus". I think it would fantastic for someone who is an Fe user to help refine it.

Did you write the 'focus' questions?

 

[highlander]

Did you write the 'focus' questions?

Yes, I wrote every word. I wrote all of the original cognitive function descriptions in the Wiki. EricB enhanced them to add the up front content that is in them now however.

 

[Ene]

I put bolded/colored notes in the quote, but for the most part, yes, this seems like Fe to me and this seems to fit me in many areas.

I'm just curious how much other FJs feel the typo c wiki Fe characteristics (and/or, Fe descriptions in general) apply to them.

Fe Characteristics

As compared to those that use Introverted Feeling (Fi), individuals that use the cognitive function of Extraverted Feeling (Fe) tend towards the following:

• seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs---Yes.
  
• are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values--Yeah this one doesn't really fit me. I wouldn't say "ruled by." I have my own set of values, of right and wrong and sometimes they don't fit well with the broadly held ones. Sometimes, they do. However, I must consider that in and NFJ, Fe may be working heavily with Ni and therefore, this aspect may be affected by it. So that for the most part the NFJ looks and acts in accordance to broadly accepted values until those values cross their view of what "should be" or "can be." I mean until it is in conflict with Ni and then for me, the Ni will always win out over the values. The vision must LIVE![INFJ war cry.]
• express emotion with intentionality and forethought for optimal effect--Not emotion for me. Words. I use words. I do not like to display emotions in front of others at all. I don't know why. I just don't, except compassion and happiness. I like showing those things, but I hate when people see me angry and I hate it when people see me cry...so, they don't. I feel naked and exposed and that something is being stolen from me. But words are magic. I can help people make sense of their feelings and I can make sense of my own when I am able to think about my words and choose the right ones. Sometimes, none work, so then I just over a hand or simply "show up." Most of the time I think about what I'm going to say and say it carefully so it will have the desired impact. I wish I could say that desired impact was always good, but um...yeah...if I allow myself to be angry, I can hurt people with those words.
• seek to objectively understand the feelings of othersAbsolutely.
  
• have a harder time confronting others; are more diplomaticWhat Protégé said.

  If you're skilled at diplomacy, then you're good at handling confrontation, just without being a jerk about it

  . I don't have a hard time confronting others. I just seek to do it in a way that will yield the most return in terms of keeping things moving forward. People are more productive and easier to get along with when they feel they are appreciated and people feel appreciated when you take the time to understand where they're coming from. That doesn't mean I'm always successful, but I do always try for that outcome. I've had issues with more forceful people [NTJs and STJs] not understanding why I was taking so long to deal with certain things, but later they came back and apologized to me and said they were impressed with the way I waited until I knew all sides of the story and had all the facts before making a decision. Premature decisions cause a lot of pain for people and I'm not into causing needless chaos or inflicting unnecessary injury.
• seek harmony with others Yes!
  
• are more practical; willing to make compromises I'm willing to look for win/win outcomes. In a compromise somebody always loses but in a win-win, everybody gets something of benefit. I think the ultimate outcome of efficient Fe is win-win scenarios. They're not always possible and in that case, I say, "no deal. You go your way and I'll go mine." But still, the ultimate aim is win-win. Let people know they matter enough to you that you'll make the effort to work with them on their issues and on your own, too.
  
• focus on understanding how the group works, connects, gets along (or doesn’t) and all of their views, decides what course of action is most amenable to the intended goal while accommodating the most people I think I already touched on that one.
• assess consistency of behavior of individuals and behavior with social protocols yeah, I think so.
  
• focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations that others seem have Definitely.
  
• are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other yes.
  
• focus on how decisions, actions, or expressed opinions are going to be reacted to, countered or felt by others and weighing benefits and costs of the course of action yes
  

I'm looking to hear from FJs- is there anything about this list of characteristics you'd have to alter in order to agree that it applies to you personally? Or to other FJs you know? I've never related much to Fe descriptions, and I'm wondering how much of that is just me.

I'll be posting my own criticism of this list when I finish typing it up, but I'm going to post this now.

[ [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION], [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION], [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION], [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION], [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION], [MENTION=8485]tinker683[/MENTION] ...that's all that's coming to mind immediately, but input from anyone who identifies as FJ would be welcome/appreciated.]

 

[á´…eparted]

I'll go through and comment on each point, similar to what others have done (though I have not yet read other posters comments, too busy at the moment, but I want a short break). If it's blue, it fits me, if it's red, it doesn't, if it's yellow, it kinda does.

• 
  [*]seek to understand others behaviors, motivations, desires and beliefs. - This is subconscious and automatic with me. I am constantly scanning for this information with any person that I interact with. I get annoyed when I can not garner this information. Either from someone who is too hard to read, or someone who intentionally hides this stuff.
  [*]are ruled by objective and more broadly accepted values. - Bingo. I don't blindly accept all values, but I adhere to what is going on around me, so long as it meshes with a higher order value.
  [*]express emotion with intentionality and forethought for optimal effect. YES. This is a huge hall mark of Fe-doms in my opinion. My emotions always express how I feel, and I automatically do so with intent. I want people to clearly see the emotional weight or intention behind what I say. To me that information is very important. It's a large reason why I am seen as so expressive and dramatic.
  [*]seek to objectively understand the feelings of others. - Eh, kinda. Depends on the person. If I determine someone isn't worth it for whatever reason, I do not care how they feel. This is an Fe thing though I would say.
  [*]have a harder time confronting others; are more diplomatic. - No. I have no issues with confrontation. It might make me very uncomfortable and anxious at times, but I always power through it. I can be diplomatic if I want to be. Further, I would say that there is no consistent pattern with Fe users being confrontational or not. Some are very much so, others are not at all.
  [*]seek harmony with others - There is the caveot of seeking harmony with my group. If they aren't part of it, I will only sync up enough to get along, and won't care how the harmony is unless it starts negatively impacting something that needs to be done, or will have long term effects.
  [*]are more practical; willing to make compromises - Yes. I see myself as fairly practical, and I readily make compromises if there is an inpass and something has to give. That being said Fe can be enormously stubborn and unyielding, so the compromizing aspect can be hard to see. Further, I do not see all Fe users as practically oriented. In particular aux users.
  [*]focus on understanding how the group works, connects, gets along (or doesn’t) and all of their views, decides what course of action is most amenable to the intended goal while accommodating the most people. - Spot on. This happens automatically. Reading "the group" requires little thought for a initial read. Who's who, who know who, and all the dynamic gets detected, and if it isn't readily available it will be sought out. One important point though, is while Fe wants to acommidate, if needed be it will leave someone behind if they won't pull their weight to meet in the middle.
  [*]assess consistency of behavior of individuals and behavior with social protocols- Yup. I readily call people out on this as well.
  [*]focus on observable patterns of behaviors and motivations that others seem have - This is often done subconsciously. Not all Fe users will be aware they do this, but they definitely do. It's a hallmark. Some may choose to not use this information much, which would be more common in aux users.
  [*]are focused on the dynamics of how people relate to each other - Same as above. I go crazy if I can't figure this out.
  [*]focus on how decisions, actions, or expressed opinions are going to be reacted to, countered or felt by others and weighing benefits and costs of the course of action - Cause and effect is a huge thing, and Fe pays close attention to this. I think with Ni users this might be more prevalent, but Si users do this too. This is also automatic. What's made that clear is people point out to me that I do this all the time, even when I am not thinking of what I am doing.

[/INDENT]

I'm looking to hear from FJs- is there anything about this list of characteristics you'd have to alter in order to agree that it applies to you personally? Or to other FJs you know? I've never related much to Fe descriptions, and I'm wondering how much of that is just me.

I'll be posting my own criticism of this list when I finish typing it up, but I'm going to post this now.

Based off the above, I think this is very accurate for how Fe works. Fe doms will likely relate to this strongly. Fe-aux would be a little more challening because it will be partially related to, and at times feel a bit difficult or wrong. As would be for any aux function.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Why is there a distinction between diplomacy and confrontation? If you're skilled at diplomacy, then you're good at handling confrontation, just without being a jerk about it. Many people just aren't good at being diplomatic but have learned the art of pussyfooting without resolving the conflict at hand.

This is a perfectly expressed Fe.

After thinking about this thread, my impression is that the wiki description of Fe is not written by a Fe-dom. It could have been written by a Fe-aux or even a Thinker. It is a very detached, cerebral description of the function. It describes one layer of it, the purely internal aspect of it, but it doesn't describe much of how it is applied in actuality. This makes me suspect it was firstly written by an introvert, and likely a Thinker. It's probably not inaccurate, but it is incomplete because it is too abstract to really define Fe.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Maybe it would be helpful to provide some context and history on what's written there. I wrote everything under Characteristics of Extraverted Feeling (Fe). It came out of a discussion in this thread. When the thread started, I would have to say that I didn't really understand Fe very well at all though towards the end, I felt like I had a much better understanding of it. The write up was my attempt to synthesize what people said in the thread up to about post 450. Post #453 is the summary that I pulled together where this came from.

Some of the mistakes in tone or word choice probably originate with my Te or Fi orientation such as use of the word "focus" or "ruled by". I think it would fantastic for someone who is an Fe user to help refine it.

Did you write the wiki entry yourself? or are you referring to what you wrote in the referenced post?

 

[highlander]

Did you write the wiki entry yourself? or are you referring to what you wrote in the referenced post?

I wrote both the Wiki entry and the post. The content for the Wiki entry that [MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION] references above came from the post. After that, EricB added the section on top above Characteristics of Extraverted Feeling (Fe). Again, I was trying to synthesize what a lot of people were saying in that thread.

This is the whole Wiki Entry Extraverted Feeling - Typology Wiki

But we should definitely change it!! It's set up for single sign-on for the members to be able to edit/maintain it.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I wrote both the Wiki entry and the post. The content for the Wiki entry came from the post. After that, EricB added the section on top above Characteristics of Extraverted Feeling (Fe). Again, I was trying to synthesize what a lot of people were saying in that thread.

But we should definitely change it!!

It will be especially helpful to get feedback from Fe-doms because I think the Fe-aux types will tend to have more individualized use of Fe, and of all the aux functions for an introvert, it is the most ironic. Fe is the most obvious socially extroverted function. Te Ne and Se aren't as much about human interaction. People who are absolutely introverted, but have Fe-aux would likely have a highly individualized version of it (this is just my impression of it). Fe-doms can offer a more purely Fe perspective without the personalized experience of Si or vision of Ni.

 

[highlander]

It will be especially helpful to get feedback from Fe-doms because I think the Fe-aux types will tend to have more individualized use of Fe, and of all the aux functions for an introvert, it is the most ironic. Fe is the most obvious socially extroverted function. Te Ne and Se aren't as much about human interaction. People who are absolutely introverted, but have Fe-aux would likely have a highly individualized version of it (this is just my impression of it). Fe-doms can offer a more purely Fe perspective without the personalized experience of Si or vision of Ni.

That's a really good point. I suppose the same could be said for all of the function descriptions. You want to get a perspective from someone who uses it in its purest or most dominant and strongest form. As an INTJ, my Extraverted Thinking sort of works in service of Introverted Intuition. Extraverted Thinking is my second best thing. I might not be able to describe it quite as well as an ENTJ or ESTJ.