User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 64

Thread: ESTJ VS ENTJ

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    You cannot argue with someone who makes up facts. A good dose of TE for you.
    No, you just don't give a shit about the role of cognitive functions and you cover up your arrogance with "expertise."

    ENTJ has Te - Ni - Se - Fi and ESTJ has Te - Si - Ne - Fi, that is fact.

    Ne as Demonstrative Function (ENFJ, ENTJ)

    The individual is fairly good at generating all kinds of notions and hypothetical ideas, but unless they can be fitted to the current situations he doesn't himself take the ideas seriously and views the activity as a sort of entertaining exercise lacking in value. It is more natural for him to apply his imagination and vision specifically to those areas where he is trying to achieve something concrete than merely to "indulge" in thinking and empty discussions about things that have no relation to his activities and goals in life.

  2. #22
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    632

    Default ESTJ VS ENTJ

    The severn with eight wings (ENTJ) point of stress/dicsentergration is to one with two wing ESTJ.

    So I do not think there needs to conflict because in a wound about was both Cygnus and Garrot have something to contribute and in a round about way also RandomINTP.

    There is more to understanding ESTJ functions that just Te - Si - Ne - Fi and there is more to understanding ENTJ function than Te - Ni - Se - Fi.

    And there is more to understanding ESTJ than:

    1. Thinking
    2. Sensing
    3. Intuition
    4. Feeling

    And there is more to understanding ENTJ than:

    1. Thinking
    2. Intuition
    3. Sensing
    4. Feeling

    The role of the Id the Ego and the Supper ego is important and the role of the three instincts is important and the role of Sense at Point:3 , and Think at Point:9 , and Feel at Point:6 are important. Within the cognitive actions of the instinctual component of cognitive activities.

    Sense_feel, feeling triad. Primary Point:3 (sense/ sensing Points 3, 7, 8 Ego)
    Think_relate, relating triad. Primary Point:9 (think/ thinking Points 9, 4, 5 Id)
    Feel_think, thinking triad. Primary Point:6 (feel/ Feeling Points 6, 2, 1 Supper ego)




    Every person has a nine point internal enneagram and six instinctual variants. So the number 54 is relevant when thinking of the various perspective views within relating thinking and sensing. All points are a mirror unto each other and the mind needs the utilisation of all nine points and all six instinctual variants.

    I kinda like Cygnus's input and would like to see his understanding of the other fourteen MBTI types.
    @Cygnus could you list the other fourteen MBTI types functions as you have done for the ESTJ and ENTJ or point me to a table of the information for the sequencing you sheared for both types ESTJ and ENTJ. I have a little project I am interested in doing but require a full and accurate list of functions for all sixteen like you have extended in shearing about the ESTJ and ENTJ functions.

    Cheers and Thank You in advance for your efforts if you chose so to extend a table of all sixteen types functions.

  3. #23
    Member Chickennugget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ENFp Ne
    Posts
    85

    Default

    Wow. You guys have personality down to a science... Literally. I was kinda thinking in less sciencey terms (I literally can't understand it. I wish I were more thinker-y...) sigh. If you're up for going into the logic I'm willing to learn. Aaaaaaand that explains why I suck at debating (I cry and talk about feelings).
    Hey! Take this bomb survey about human happiness. It's pretty open-ended, and it's for a fun project I'm doing because why not?

    Link:
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ina...?usp=send_form


    Tumblr: enfpiss

    Go follow me!

  4. #24
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    If he's smart, he's an ENTJ.
    If he's stupid, he's an ESTJ.
    It's that simple.
    Welcome to the forum. I sense you are very young. It's natural for you to think in this black and white way at your age. However, in expressing your thoughts without regards to your surroundings, you do put yourself in a position to enter into a great deal of conflict and even be banned from the conversations here. I encourage you to read threads that can expand your thinking, rather than holding to stereotypes limited in perspective. You can learn a lot here, if you can bridle some of your provocative nature.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #25
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    632

    Default ESTJ VS ENTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Chickennugget View Post
    Wow. You guys have personality down to a science... Literally. I was kinda thinking in less sciencey terms (I literally can't understand it. I wish I were more thinker-y...) sigh. If you're up for going into the logic I'm willing to learn. Aaaaaaand that explains why I suck at debating (I cry and talk about feelings).
    The complexities are difficult to explain I myself am a visceral type person with a slow at time cognitive processing function and this is good in some ways and limiting in some ways.

    It requires time to grasp complexities and the complexities we are exploring and teasing apart are interconnected and some times the bundle looks like one and at closer inspection looks like more that just one but many parts connecting together like a three dimensional puzzle.

    I tend to leave the describing of things to those who are naturally good at that and my self I simple work before my pair in the hope that I can excel erase my learning, and within that simple venerability it seems to work because the essence of most who visit this and other sights is good.

    This topic we are looking at seems to have more complexity that generally spoken about before the novice. I am a layman even though I have held an interest for over twenty years.

    It seems that like notes within music the note of the lets call it MBTI it fame work operates differently in different keys or different octaves.

    I am a dumb when it comes to music and understanding the fractions and everything to do with music but never the sell my higher mind is not as debilitated by sloth as my conches is.

    So I read and think with as little thought as posable and say to my self "I will put that on the back burner" and trust that my Su conches and un conches will feed me information when when I have uncovered enough of the jigsaw puzzle to recognise the picture. The mind protects its self but will recognise and build and grow but via a honest process.

    Read think and gently move on to the next and if your mind returns think proactively and allow the subject content to move in and out at its will and the duality of your own Su conches and un conches will serve you and assist you in growth. It's a funny thing that personality witch is often the reactive limiting component of who we are forgets that the self is the Soul and the nature of the Soul is service. The conches may for get but the sub conches and un conches has not forgotten and quietly and patently serves the pilot boing its thing out there in space the space of the mind Egoic mind.

    Learn the basics lots of basics lots of frame works they are real but pic quality information and good schools of thought, some time to save time take the cream from the bottle and leave the milk for those who seek there symbiotic needs met within the security of the simple one system. Because there are may differing shapes to recognise and they fit together like a complex score of living music minds operation.

    With this puzzle those two are casting defending plays about seems to me quite simple, Ti has three places and the third place is at Point:9 at the instinctive level the visceral level of think_relate.

    Point 9 is the apex of the seesaw between points 1. & 8 and 2 & 7 but for this instinctual thing it is easiest to grasp it if you think about two of the six instinctual variants Sp/So and So/Sp.

    The Sp component is at point:1 and the So component is at point:8 and the In between is point:9 "Think".

    If you investigate Sp/So and So/Sp you will see that that are complimentary to each other in the cognitive thought possessing both like structure and to structure all types do but they do it with a natural born to problem solve and order like natural drive to frame and order and it all evolves around think/thinking its a like proactive Id kinda thing not separated from points 4&5 and 3&6 see: (3-4 - 9 -5-6) but that is one action.

    So point: has its relationship with in a group of five points that have at its centre Point:9 of the relating triad or Instinctive triad I like relating triad because I am old school and the first edition of the book Personality Types was in some ways a much better book to first learn the enneagram because it transmitted more of the Id understanding of the master enneagram teacher Don Richard Riso. The new revised bigger and better second or third edition, I an un shore how many revised addition there are diaries the relating triad as the instinctual triad and in a way that is true Think in the topic above is Instinct related, but all types think sense feel and that is much of what the Law of three is about sense point three think point nine and feel point six.

    The three parts in equal nuisance is what basically makes the magic happen.

    So think feel at point six is the thinking triad , head or head hart gut, and it is helpful to understand that the head separated from the gut centre has much to do with fear to feel what you think with out the grounding can generate fear so they, before before political correctness where trout of as the fear types types 5 6 7 but that is not completely true but due to the way some parts connect and can be disconnect from other parts its is also true and apt as it is untrue holistically when more pieces of the connect are connected.

    So you can see there is several layers of complexity. Several model and two people are yap yap because two people are not perhaps seeing the complexity and the multiplicity of complexity the same way.

    One is taking an impersonal view and the other a personal view and that are looking at the same thing from different frequencies particular parts of a larger mechanism.

    It's fun to learn because Cygnus's insight are new to me and I can après hate the knowledge he is extending.

    If you are interested in the law of three and sense think feel and the MBTI and the enneagram Google Mark Anthony Rockliff and, "a table of celebrated correlation" will be there and you can see one full layer of the MBTI correlated with the enneagram, I did it back in 1997 or so and its been there for some years.

    There is much to learn and see from taking in those correlations but as we can see there is more layers than one set layer as my correlations are.

    My correlations are when an individual at its point centre being with out the manipulations of the other points and six instinctual variants. But closely you will see Te and the T and the Ti for both ESTJ 1w2 and ENTJ 7w8 and you can ask your self is there a connection between think and Te and feel and Ti and sense and T and if so you can ask question and witness the three functions and even generate the variants to ether side of the primary point energy. If you a tune at the right level it is fascinating to see the automatic responses and reaction but there is an art to it because there is a emotional frequency to be triggered and each of the six variant has its own pitch subjective emotion. And the subject matter must be applicable to type conches mood and agenda.

    And that is why I like Cygnus's contribution of this topic It partly honours the same level but in an impersonal independent pitch as if it addresses the Egoic minds cognition. I wonder if it remains the same for all six verbena of the ESTJ and ENTJ that is the question I ask myself so I am curious as to knowing the structure for all 16 so as I can begin to observe and witness to see for my self and view the two missing MBTI types and see what is taking place other than what I already can see within the 1w9 ESNTJ and 5w6 INTFP.

    Cheers

  6. #26
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    MBTI
    -NTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    928

    Default

    ExTJ love organizing and order
    Diffrence between Ni and Si is obviouse when it comes to time, ENTJs might need a time table, but ESTJs might need a summery of the ideas or whatsoever.
    Also the techniques o an ENTJ uses is less concentrated on time, speech while the ESTJ pays more attention to it.
    ENTJ is more strategy skills while the ESTJ have better diplomatic skills.

    This is how I think of it.
    And based on experience, ENTJs I've seen, they ruled to lead..
    But ESTJs were bosses, doing their thing.
    Last edited by Mademoiselle; 03-31-2015 at 03:58 PM. Reason: *
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  7. #27
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Both are organizer of external objects- be it people or things- though they usually treat people like things (less worried about the interpersonal stuff in working towards the goal)


    You'll have to work/interact with the person and figure out if they are doing things because that's how it 'is' (Si), vs that's how it 'appears' (Ni), if that makes any sense. You can tell an ENTJ if they usually take the focus away from the object and take a symbolic/possibility focused spin. The ESTJ usually keeps it factual and grounded. I emphasize usually because both have the ability to do the other, but we're talking preferences. The object in question may lend itself to a more likely sensing or intuitive discussion; it's hard to get real intuitive talking about accounting. Believe me, I've tried.

  8. #28
    Member Chickennugget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ENFp Ne
    Posts
    85

    Default

    Yeah. I'm working with an ESTJ on a project and it's okay but I end up talking about life and stuff and he's annoyed by that, which I find extremely funny.
    Hey! Take this bomb survey about human happiness. It's pretty open-ended, and it's for a fun project I'm doing because why not?

    Link:
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ina...?usp=send_form


    Tumblr: enfpiss

    Go follow me!

  9. #29
    Member Chickennugget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ENFp Ne
    Posts
    85

    Default

    Ok I still don't get it... Gah why is this so hard?!? I wish I could be a thinker.
    Hey! Take this bomb survey about human happiness. It's pretty open-ended, and it's for a fun project I'm doing because why not?

    Link:
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ina...?usp=send_form


    Tumblr: enfpiss

    Go follow me!

  10. #30
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    632

    Default ESTJ VS ENTJ

    As usual I have drafted a beeper than normal quadrant D type response.

    All Individuals,. ENTJ as ESTJ have sub conches activity ever present and never separate from there very Being.

    So what I am trying to do in this Post is. To provide a window into sub conches actions and make visible some simple structures that have a play in mind eye not separate as layers but joined a frame work that maybe easiest viewed as a structure that has three layers and a volume abstractly put like a one and two and three dimensional scream ,a four dimensional volume.

    But that sounds wacky the point is that it is like a fractal and each part is both a start point and a placement within the frame work like a fusion of fractals that has a living structural manically forum within shape and the shape is the possibility boundaries operate able, a two dimensional operational frame work structure. And how it works. All numbers between 1 to nine work as part if it's working geometry. And Zero is the overall unification of all parts as a hole. So numbers seem to have a structural role one component two components three components .... Seven eight nine.

    it is addressing structure that is not spoken about within a visceral context so I am having a go at talking about sub conches activities that are posable to catch if you observe nothing making the space observed the something within what seemed nothing, the sub conches never rests and with guidance like this window you may see parts of your sub conches at work within life narrative patterns within your own stage play. ESTJ is my auxiliary wing and has much to do with agenda within my narrative so there is some me in the structure below like the third variant head example. Sloth explains would have made Conches the ninth and the eight and five and three the mechanism holding the distraction narrative for sloth content eight cognitive functions occupied generating for Sloth experienced. But I have tried to simple provide 1 of the lenses INTP for example may have a different or very similar nine parts three layers: order. And like a game of table tennis between eight parts and five and three parts. All parts serve the Individual and I tend to think all parts are in constant flux because we utilise all nine points all six Instincts all three Centre's and all eight cognitive functions within the flux perpetual cognition.

    ESTJ don't like there focus interrupter when goal driven to work though a task. They like to stay focused on the task at hand and completion, finishing a task blemish free is important a step towards there inner feeling of achievement and completion internal pride and satisfaction -STJ ,ISTJ's to can have a focus that is solo focused on achievement and completion where in the work is the purpose.
    All type can experience this same intensity relating and values sensed within the endeavour to achieve. Fixating attention is a purpose for all persons intent upon achievement.

    The discussion of social values activities and interests is also a form of fixating attention, lots of things seem to role forward powered by a seemingly propulsion of three three concentrated parts to manifest that witch is posable, an application of focused attention.

    You Me the-topic.

    And at the same time it's one it's two it's three it's four it's five.

    - (1) You
    - (2) You Me
    - (3) The - Topic (creation the reconciliation or denial, within the evolution of investigation)
    - (4) You Me The Topic (two view points perspectives)
    - (5) You Me The Topics actions (subjective transaction) the symbol ( - ) Action , the-topic. (Action) and be could be a third party action from concentration from inner workings of mind. Cognitive functions Intuitive functions. Like a game of table tennis but eight parts per side played like American doubles eight cognitive functions (Si Se Ni Ne Ti Te Fi Fe) vs five (EP IN TF SN TJ) and the Self own Instinctual Centre's: (Sense/Think/Feel).

    Two on three of for the ESTJ within the ESTJ not listening to you and utility the play between the eight parts and the five parts, posable example, Sense, Mood, Attitude. An other example, Feel, Agenda, behaviour. An other example, Think, Conches, Ethos.

    Attitude/ Behaviour/ Ethos.
    Conches/ Agenda/ Mood.
    Sense/ Think/ Feel.

    If there is a three into three three set play within each set and between sets three on can be one on in each set and two of in each set. For example when Attitude is overcompensated behaviour and ethos can take the place of the role of Conches from set two and Sense from set three.

    Conches/Behaviour.
    Sense/Ethos.
    The two of would be Think and Feel.

    So if we look deeply we had eight active and one of the nine participating.
    So if we look deeply we had severn active and two of the nine a non participate a bias in active form Active.

    Two parts and one part. Three parts.

    The ESTJ Not Actively Listening to you "Behaviour" ,what the ESTJ seeks to in the component action "Denial" seeking to dene the speakers Feel/think / Think-feel , possibility,: Head Triad , Feel Instinctual - Point:6..

    The seven parts and two parts I see operates with the variants its structure is complex and I am not shore how to explain clearly and concisely it seems to have four working parts one from each set and two from each set as if the two sets of three work other side of the primary point 1 and 8'for think at point nine and 5 and 7 for feel at point six and 4 and 2 for sense at point three. As if for an example set one may have points 1 and 8 linked with perhaps behaviour and ethos. Set two perhaps 5 and 7 linked with agenda and mood, and set three 4 and 2 linked with Think and Feel as if lead by the third variant energy. Variant Head Energy third instinctual energy for example Sx for Sp/So/Sx.

    So in this abstract example positions at point Three, Six, and Nine would be active with the focused energies of Attitude, Conches, and Sense.

    So it is a bit like a collider scope with lots of parts making a seemingly cohesive seamless unified expression. But the collider scope it's fixed design manifests the viewed pattern. And in this metaphorical depiction the collider scope is sutler functions of mind.

    Further thoughts.
    As if the eight cognitive function are appointed to the eight participating actions of attitude, conches, agenda, think, feel, mood, ethos.

    You Me The (three of) denied transaction, creation-conversation.

    - Topic action topic (two on) field of concentration ,work at hand.

    Five parts five Dot Model. shaped like an X one in the middle four equally distanced and placed as like corners. X

    Two On Three Of , Three On Two Of. There seems to be a pattern play within concentration and the needs of symbiotic free will. Four On One Of "resistance" (resistance of) seems to be a shape wherein ( head hart gut ) are equally active and drawn upon for a proactive synergetic transaction.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENTJ] INFJ vs. ENTJ
    By Annaifiwas in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-09-2016, 08:16 AM
  2. ESTP vs ENTJ
    By FDG in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 02-04-2015, 05:11 AM
  3. [ESTJ] ESTJ vs ENTJ [Also posted on NT forum]
    By LanaBanana in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-20-2014, 10:17 AM
  4. ESTJ vs ENTJ
    By BlueGray in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-29-2009, 12:06 AM
  5. Question for ESTJ and ENTJ males:
    By Brendan in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-08-2008, 03:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO