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  1. #21
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Information aka "evidence" is only as good as it's source.

    Dario Nardi, a UCLA professor and author (The neuroscience of personality) discusses personality and the lab research he has done on the subject in this video:

    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    This is the part of Edahn's post I was specifically agreeing with, which is why I quoted it the way I did:



    But since I'm here, can you touch intelligence? What's it feel like, Jon?
    Is it rough or sticky?

    I see. I never found it poignant to isolate what others quote, my apologies.


    Well, it's hard to say. First we would have to come to terms on the definitions of intelligence, likely a feat in itself, seeing as you may not agree such concepts can even exist.


    Once we get past this inherent hangup, I would turn towards the neural pathways in the brain. Let's say we decide we are going to measure intelligence in context of mathematical ability. Perhaps with a nano-scale rover I could traipse the interconnectedness of albert einstein's brain, versus the kid in math class who couldn't pass geometry, who now mops floors. We could see how the neurons in einstein's mind prime groupings far irrelevant to the task at hand, and with much greater intensity, than our floor mopping subject. When Einstein thinks of numbers, he sees shapes, distances, entire concepts in a fell swoop of thought. When our floor mopping subject thinks of numbers, he likely has trouble linking them to anything at all, simply because his neural pathways are so underdeveloped for the task at hand. I would call our floor mopper unintelligent in the context of math.

    All this can be directly attributed the interconnectedness of the neural pathways and the capabilities of priming, also, coincidentally, a concept greatly tied to the functions Se/Ne and Ni/Si.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Well, it's hard to say. First we would have to come to terms on the definitions of intelligence[...]
    The answer should have been easy, Jon. Not hard.
    All you need to know is the difference between abstract and concrete. A concept and an object.
    I read your entire post, but you strayed from the original point.

    Edahn isn't around, but I'll take a wild guess that he's as tired of people not knowing what a construct is as I am.
    It's been going on in this forum for years:

    "I don't have Ti."
    "I don't have Te."

    Constructs such as the congnitive processes are not like checking yourself for a genital herpes blister - I don't have it!
    Can you touch Te? No. Can you touch a herpes blister? Yes.

    That was Edahn's point - the cognitive processes are constructs. They are not objects in the physical world we can touch with our fingers.
    To this day, it amazes me how many people still talk about them as if they're a carton of orange juice in the refrigerator waiting to be consumed.



    *On a side note: if you want to define intelligence, there are enough of those old threads scattered around this forum to fill a litter box.

  4. #24
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    did you actually read what i said? i said MBTI has been tested using large samples of people (ie statistically). it's not up for discussion, it's a fact.
    How so, when if we posted video profiles of all the people who supposedly 'factually' tested as a specific type on this very site, we'd all very well end up typing them differently and there'd be no bona fide consensus/objectivity being used in definitively typing someone as one and only one type?

    'Factually' I tested as INTJ in my early 20's, and 'factually' I don't identify with many elements of what is propounded on this site regarding any number of things. So, that would add to the supposed statistical stats. Can you prove to me that I am an INTJ, or am not an INTJ, or am an INFJ, or am not an INFJ? Or that I'm not possibly any of the other 15 types? Whatever metrics you used on me to Prove I am a certain type and not other types would have to be used on everyone else, no bending, no caveats.

    Agree re. comments on mbti being a categorical system / construct. It's trying to add structure/trends to intangibles. To encapsulate elements or trends in personality that may/do exist, but of which we may not be accounting for a great number of other things by doing so.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  5. #25
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    *On a side note: if you want to define intelligence, there are enough of those old threads scattered around this forum to fill a litter box.
    ^^Apropos...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The answer should have been easy, Jon. Not hard.
    All you need to know is the difference between abstract and concrete. A concept and an object.
    I read your entire post, but you strayed from the original point.

    Edahn isn't around, but I'll take a wild guess that he's as tired of people not knowing what a construct is as I am.
    It's been going on in this forum for years:

    "I don't have Ti."
    "I don't have Te."

    Constructs such as the congnitive processes are not like checking yourself for a genital herpes blister - I don't have it!
    Can you touch Te? No. Can you touch a herpes blister? Yes.

    That was Edahn's point - the cognitive proceses are constructs. They are not objects in the physical world we can touch with our fingers.
    To this day, it amazes me how many people still talk about them as if they're a carton of orange juice in the refrigerator waiting to be consumed.



    *On a side note: if you want to define intelligence, there are enough of those old threads scattered around this forum to fill a litter box.

    I understand what you've been getting at, and it's reminiscent of the jocks in psychology arguing with my professor that it isn't a science, but speculative fiction of some sort.


    The other day someone said geology doesn't know everything there is about rocks. I mistook what he said, and quipped, 'Yes, rocks do know everything there is about geology'.


    Prior to coming across typology, I was big into physiology of the brain. I (and I feel it is the true goal of typology) wish to bridge the gap between what is physically, fundamentally present and what our labels are capable of ascribing.


    Again, I understand your basic philosophical principle - that the things we decide to label are just that, conceptual constructs. But I do not live exclusively inside of that universe, and it certainly does not define my approach to typology. I live in a universe of observation and classification. I know that true conceptual thought is evidenced in reality; that is what I and others seek out.

  7. #27
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @jontherobot

    Labels and categories are constructs - that which they label or categorize are not (except in the case of labeling constructs, which is simply subcategorization)

    For example: Velocity is relative but is an actual property. 'Fast' (comparatively high velocity) is relative and conceptual.

    What is called 'fast' is variable as a concept - something might be fast by one comparison yet slow by another. Yet 'fast' is determined by velocity, and velocity is always velocity, all the time and everywhere because it is an actual property of things that have it.

    In other words, the differences that are being categorized are not simply made up. Speculating the reasons for these differences and what they entail might some times be made up though.

  8. #28
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    I'd love to see some good, solid bridges between physiology and psychology. Data's kinda scant at the moment, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    "I don't have Ti."
    "I don't have Te."
    Also, "I don't use [such-and-such]" is almost as equally absurd, and it's proclaimed all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    metrics
    We also fail to establish what metrics we actually use when we categorize. The MBTI test? Scattered online tests? A collection of expert assessments? Metacognition?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I'd love to see some good, solid bridges between physiology and psychology. Data's kinda scant at the moment, though.

    Yes, likely so. Soon.


    At the very least, thank you for seemingly appreciating what I'm reaching for here.

  10. #30
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Personally, I agreed with everything Edahn said.

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