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  1. #11
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Not that surprising. The 5th is the weakest of the shadow functions. Thus the 4th and 5th can both be problematic. One of the obstacles is the poor differentiation of the two, which is to say the inferior and opposing functions aren't entirely seperated in the persons mind. The conciouse inferior is the one that is most pleasurable or rewarding, where as the shadow is a less satisfying mindset. However, the inferior is so foriegn to the primary, that the person often shyies away from it when it attitude is needed and they slip into the seemingly more palitable opposing function instead. Unfortunately, the shadow is no fun, so they quickly become tired of it and seek to return to doing things more in accord with the primary. The poor differentiation means they struggle to tell the two appart and both get written off as a bad job.
    In my case, I think I have reasonably good Te, I just tend to disregard it in favor of dominant Ti. I think Te is probably the strongest of my four shadow functions. I'd say that for me, the weakest of the shadow functions is Se. I know that for INTPs that's the 7th function. I always thought the weakest function is supposedly the demonic or the 8th function, which I never fully understood either because I have reasonably good Fi as well.
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  2. #12
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    In my case, I think I have reasonably good Te, I just tend to disregard it in favor of dominant Ti. I think Te is probably the strongest of my four shadow functions. I'd say that for me, the weakest of the shadow functions is Se. I know that for INTPs that's the 7th function. I always thought the weakest function is supposedly the demonic or the 8th function, which I never fully understood either because I have reasonably good Fi as well.
    How do you define Te? I don't mean to sound rude, but I ask because a lot of people think of it as organising stuff, categorising or sometimes thinking fast. I wouldn't have said any of those definitions are correct. Actually, while we are on the question, how do you define Ti?
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    In my case, I think I have reasonably good Te, I just tend to disregard it in favor of dominant Ti. I think Te is probably the strongest of my four shadow functions. I'd say that for me, the weakest of the shadow functions is Se. I know that for INTPs that's the 7th function. I always thought the weakest function is supposedly the demonic or the 8th function, which I never fully understood either because I have reasonably good Fi as well.
    The order has nothing to do with strength at all. So #8 doesn't have to be weakest, and it seems it hardly ever is. It can even be somewhat strong, from being the dominant's same-side brain alternative. the 5th function might also be strong, simply from being the opposite attitude "backup" of the dominant.
    The weakest is often 6,7, and in many people is even 3,4!
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  4. #14
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The order has nothing to do with strength at all. So #8 doesn't have to be weakest, and it seems it hardly ever is. It can even be somewhat strong, from being the dominant's same-side brain alternative. the 5th function might also be strong, simply from being the opposite attitude "backup" of the dominant.
    The weakest is often 6,7, and in many people is even 3,4!
    Interesting. I think it's worth noting that I think we are not using strength to mean the same thing at this point. To me, the strength of function is almost a statistical statement about how likely a function is to be expressed in a healthy way, rather than being about how often a function is expressed or if it's actually expression is healthy in a given individual. Frequency of expression I usually refer to as function preference, and health of expression as function development, so a developing function is one what is changing from an unhealthy expression to a healthy one.

    The way I use the words, function order and strength are invariant for all members of a type, but function preference and development can vary significantly. Thus, when I say a function is weak, I mean it is hard to express in a health fashion, a bit like saying running up hill is harder than running on the level, but some people can still do it well.

    Of course, it is still possible to argue about the strength of the different positions in the order, but that's a different point.
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