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  1. #1
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Smile Uumlau answers your questions about Fi

    I've been answering quite a few questions about Fi since I got on the forum, and they seem to be coming more frequently of late. I'm not quite up for starting a blog or anything, but I'm more than happy to have a small thread where people can ask their questions about Fi, or at least my interpretation of it.

    On topic posts include any questions about Fi, or feel free to contribute your own personal description of what Fi is and how it works.

    Here is a portion of a conversation about Fi that I was having with Whatever via VM, that the participants and a few witnesses agreed would be a good thread starter.

    __________________________________________________ __

    For me, Fi/Te makes perfect sense: the emotions inside of me are subjective and illogical, the world around me is objective and logical. It's actually kind of difficult to think of myself as being subjectively logical within myself, but objectively subjective with other people and the world around me.

    I can "do Ti", but I don't have the "Ti values" of requiring logical self consistency. Rather I choose to adopt logical self-consistency for a short while, as needed. I can "do Fi", but it is more personal: rather than choosing to adopt a framework, I go inside myself and open a door. It's kind of like opening the door to a furnace, where one is almost afraid to touch it, for fear of burning oneself. All the other judging functions purposefully avoid this door: Te and Ti ignore it as much as possible. Te excels at ignoring others' "furnaces", while Ti excels at ignoring one's own. Fe mostly ignores one's own, while preoccupied with others: Fe deals with the pain of emotionality indirectly, from a distance.

    Fi is the preference to face it all head on. Hence the vibe of "personal integrity." Developing Fi means looking at yourself, metaphorically naked, and understanding yourself, and forgiving yourself.

    That last phrase is the most important part, especially if you have something really tough to deal with, inside. The way you open the furnace door and enter without burning yourself (or imploding or something ) is to arm yourself with forgiveness. You adopt a frame of mind and say, "It's OK. Whatever I find, it's OK."

    Eventually, you will start deciding that certain aspects of your inner self are "not OK," but that's much more advanced work. If you decide that something isn't OK, and decide to try and "delete it," you might find out the hard way that you just deleted a core operating system file and crash. I believe the INFP tendency to be typically more emotionally unstable derives from this phenomenon: they decide to delete things while they're still too young to understand what they're doing, and they go crazy.

    You know the Fi users that seem to have that wonderful aura around them? You know what I mean, it's hard to describe by being specific. They have an internal strength that is huge. They've faced their internal demons, saying, like Gandalf, "You shall not pass!" and won the fight, emerging far stronger than ever before. The demons aren't gone, of course, and may even be unleashed against those who deserve the wrath. Fi knows those personal, subjective demons, and they are under strict control.

    Yet in spite of facing such horrors, they are kind and gentle, deliberately so, because of a degree of self-control that belies their seemingly random "P" type. When you violate one of their personal integrity axioms, you then face the indomitable strength of will that has defeated many personal demons.

    That's the far end of the journey. Right now, your journey is more like that of a child, discovering wonders and horrors within yourself, and seeing them all anew as if for the first time. Like a child, keeping your mind open about how it all "works", not forcing any external labels or biases on your inner self (which is what Fe will try to do for you), just accepting it all as is. After a long while of cataloging, you eventually start learning what's what, and slowly begin learning how to face it.

    Now here's the secret to Fi: be stubborn. Face yourself and do not back down. Don't hurt yourself, don't fight yourself, but just stand there (metaphorically, of course) and face all of that crap you don't want to see. All of the flaws in that wonderful gem that is you. What you'll start to see is that YOU are far more significant than all that random emotional crap inside of you. That YOU have the power to decide what you will and won't do. That YOU can take that which is beautiful in you and nourish it and make it grow to the point that it brightens everything and everyone around you. That YOU can stand up to all those fears and worries and hurts ... and instead of deleting them, give them so much love that they become lessons instead of wounds.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  2. #2
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I respect you uumlau for your gesture to explain Fi, as you understand and experience it. And I enjoy your contributions here on the forum, so I offer the following with love, so I hope you receive it in the spirit of my intent.

    The issue for me is that Fi is always going to be a child function for you; indeed, in your experience Fi will much more naturally subjugate to Te. You regard Fi as a parent does a child - you even use the word above, and I believe you have referenced it as such before. So this Te "parental discipline" that you subject to Fi, which to you likely comes readily, is not natural to many Fi users.

    You let Fi "out to play" so to speak, and neatly tuck it away when you are tired of having it underfoot. It's a far different thing to have the "child" screaming at you non-stop and you cannot soothe it nor can you simply abandon it or shut it up with candy or promises or logic.

    Learning to manage Fi wisely is no small task. One uses many tools, but all come with consequences too. I will expand on that in a later post.

    Is the courage to face one's demons an act of being stubborn? It's a far greater truth to stand sobbing amidst the internal emotional wreckage that defines you at some point and simply accept who you are. This is not being stubborn; this is the antithesis of stubborn. This is yielding, accepting. One must realize too that even in acceptance one simply cannot stay in that place and relive pain over and over again. The greater wisdom is to yield - to be borne anew and see the world again through the eyes that accept whatever comes. To move forward knowing, trusting that you will be OK.

    I am not "far more significant than all that random emotional crap inside of you" - I am significant even with it, I AM emotions, I AM values, I FEEL, and you know what - that's OK. Most of my life has been spent trying to conform to other people's expectations and experience, people who tell me not to care so much, not to feel so much, not to be emotional (like it's a dirty word) ... most of my issues have been created trying to make myself fit into a world that does not share my priorities rather than having emotions in the first place.

    I am significant because I have values and because I feel. That is the entire difference in our experience.

    I don't mean to be harsh or minimize your experience of Fi in the least. I simply want you to see that in order to harness the true power of Fi, you must not treat it as a child. Nor answer questions about Fi as a parent would a child. That could be patronizing and Fi deserves a deeper respect, to have a seat at the "grown-ups" table.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #3
    Member lookingglassworld's Avatar
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    Me,too!! Type on oh,wizard of Fi!!
    Welcome to the Rabbit Hole
    The Cheshire Cat

  4. #4
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I can "do Fi", but it is more personal: rather than choosing to adopt a framework, I go inside myself and open a door. It's kind of like opening the door to a furnace, where one is almost afraid to touch it, for fear of burning oneself. All the other judging functions purposefully avoid this door: Te and Ti ignore it as much as possible. Te excels at ignoring others' "furnaces", while Ti excels at ignoring one's own. Fe mostly ignores one's own, while preoccupied with others: Fe deals with the pain of emotionality indirectly, from a distance.
    How's that for inferior Se.

    This post does help a lot, though - Feeling functions (as far as I can tell) concern themselves with how we determine our identities as individuals. So Fi creates a need to generate and maintain an internally congruent identity - "this is who I am, and it transcends the current moment" - whereas Fe creates a need to generate and maintain an externally congruent identity - "I am am defined by my connection (or lack of connection) to others, and I am whoever I choose to be in the moment".

    I'm reposting these videos because I feel they express the two attitudes very well (and certainly much better than I ever will):

    [youtube=dnFsjuYuMvg]Fe[/youtube]

    [youtube=cufk6MMwd5o]Fi[/youtube]
    Hello

  5. #5
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    uumlau, how can I hear my Fi when my Te is the dominating force in my universe?
    How can I accept what I'm hearing?
    How can I let myself act on Fi?
    How can I control my Te, so it won't make me ashamed of my Fi?
    I would like to be able to think that my feelings are valid/rational/justified, or whatever.

    Maybe I'm not understanding Fi, but, I'd really like to know how they can co-exist within me.

  6. #6
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    whats Fi like in intp?

  7. #7
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    While my innate FPness may be bigger than Mr U's, his skill at said usage far, far exceeds my own.....

    I think he needs more hugs.

    I would suggest we listen as perhaps we innate Fi doms and auxs learn to improve our Fi via trial and error but arent always so clear how we ended up where we are-where an INTJ makes it a point of study.

    (For the record I appear to be an Fi fail, but am getting tutoring after school)

  8. #8
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post

    I am significant because I have values and because I feel. That is the entire difference in our experience.

    I don't mean to be harsh or minimize your experience of Fi in the least. I simply want you to see that in order to harness the true power of Fi, you must not treat it as a child. Nor answer questions about Fi as a parent would a child. That could be patronizing and Fi deserves a deeper respect, to have a seat at the "grown-ups" table.
    Perhaps you and U can tag team this thread?

    I say this as I have known very few INFPs in my life. This last week I spent four days with two INFPs.

    I cant emphasize how much I learned by their indirect comments. It was like they would insert subtle comments here and there-which I have always felt were a bit passive aggressive in text form-yet when spoken, the comments were said in just the right way, inserted in just the right places.

    A subtle comment would enter my mind and then spiral into rounds of internal self questioning and reappraisal of how I handled situations leading to an "Ah, I totally see how I have mishandling this situation." Which I could then apply to other situations.

    The gentle, mentored way of learning Fi from another's wisdom. Maybe this is the role of INFPs?

    (As opposed to the "drag your face down the asphalt street vomiting emo onto three continents" variety of Fi learning)

  9. #9
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    the discussion started because I, user of Fe, claimed that Fi feels cold to me...

    I found it amusing that a Te-Fi user would think that a Ti-Fe combination would be odd since the opposite is true to me, as well

    I had been curious as to what exactly is this Fi thing and how am I, possibly site's lowest tester in Fi on functions test (the questions on it even confused me ), supposed to develop something so strange, foreign and possibly evil?

    hope this puts it in context for you a bit peacebaby!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  10. #10
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    uumlau, how can I hear my Fi when my Te is the dominating force in my universe?
    How can I accept what I'm hearing?
    How can I let myself act on Fi?
    How can I control my Te, so it won't make me ashamed of my Fi?
    I would like to be able to think that my feelings are valid/rational/justified, or whatever.

    Maybe I'm not understanding Fi, but, I'd really like to know how they can co-exist within me.
    Fi isn't something you listen to, any more than Te dominates your universe.

    Rather, you have made some choices, mostly without realizing it. The choices are so ingrained, we aren't sure how much is nature and how much is nurture.

    To you, as a Te dom, just about every choice you make is based on the objective circumstances in the world around you. So long as you make your choices based on that, you'll usually be happy and contented, but you'll be missing out on some stuff and confused by other stuff.

    One of the choices you've made is that feelings don't matter. They get in the way. Mostly, you ignore how others feel, and you pay attention to how you feel only to the barest degree to not go insane. You satisfy them they way one would a small child crying out for attention: you try to figure out what the child wants, and give it so the crying will stop. Yet you look for things to satisfy it, rather than give it that which is obvious: e.g., a nice big hug.

    I'm not inferior Fi, so I don't know how to express it to you so you understand intuitively. But basically, you're "happy" to ignore feelings, especially troublesome feelings. As you get older, you will become less satisfied with that choice. Then you will choose to face them.

    When you choose to face your feelings, then you'll start figuring out how to deal with them on their own terms, rather than in objective terms. You will learn things about who you are and what you really want.

    The reason you haven't done so yet is just time. You're still figuring other things out. Your current approach is very good for figuring those other things out, and you've been able to postpone any major confrontation with feelings for a while (I'm going by your type, here, of course - you may have had some intense experiences of which I do not know, and affected you more deeply than I suggest). Eventually, that confrontation will be postponed no longer.

    When you finally confront yourself, the result will be a stronger Fi than you used to have, and you'll understand how Fi and Te fit together: use Te to figure out the clearly objective problems, and Fi to figure out the clearly subjective problems. Fi, given time, will start to make very good choices that logically, objectively are complete nonsense. But logic and objectivity have very little to do with the choices that concern what you really want out of life and what kind of person you choose to be.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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