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  1. #41
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I personally think of mbti as a very weak form of religion. The faculties are similiar, it can be a guidebook to understanding each others in a society that grows away from each other more and more.

    But still the most best way to find out about others will only be through own personal experience and the study of self. If one does never start with that in puberty, but instead directly starts to live after a foreign set of perception of the world, he not only endangers himself to become a drone in thought to this religion but also that he may have choosed a framework of thought that will never really fit the person he is.

    Best example for this is me, my mind goes crazy about discovering new things about me on a daily basis that presents me with ideas on what other type I could be. So I am caught in an endless loop of tought about my type, which became at a point so intense that I bored my friends so deeply with it that they thought I've lost it.

    Caught in the dangerous loop of possibilities is tho not the only issue, the other one is limitation. Tho I recently was introduced to the concept of shadow functions, which does widen the theory to such an extent that it looses its charme to be mistaken as a rulebook, I nevertheless can not accept the fact for example that one function is the strongest. Then again, shadow function theory doesnt demand that, therefore I can let go of that, but then I can let go of the whole system itself, cause if it has no rules no more and no borders, I can try to come to the same solutions the systems suggests thru own experience.

    I wont criticize mbti as a helpful tool for lonely souls, but it walks a dangerous line between mental sanity and insanity, like every moral or ethical guidebook
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  2. #42
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Yes, this forum often highlights ways to misuse the theory because many people here are self-taught with no exposure to the ethics of proper use of the theory, let alone how to use instruments, free or otherwise.

    It's like a knife. You can use one to cut out cancer or to murder.
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  3. #43
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, listening skills are essential. Sometimes called Active Listening or Empathy Training.

    However these skills don't come naturally to most of us and need to be taught and practised and practised.

    Whereas MBTI is easy, cheap and nasty and appeals to neurotic narcissism in most of us.

    So we might say, MBTI is in bad taste while listening skills are in good taste and are necessary to establish rapport.
    On second thought, it probably takes less effort to learn and apply active/effective listening skills than it takes to learn/apply typology of any kind. I have no idea why you can't use both at the same time however.

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  4. #44
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    this forum often highlights ways to misuse the theory
    Indeed.

    "But with type theory, there are 16 normal ways to be"


  5. #45
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Yes, this forum often highlights ways to misuse the theory because many people here are self-taught with no exposure to the ethics of proper use of the theory, let alone how to use instruments, free or otherwise.

    It's like a knife. You can use one to cut out cancer or to murder.
    I see, tho that means at the same time that one as a layman is obliged to lay his faith into the knowing hands of a single being that supposingly understands a theory righteously.

    You know, psychology is no science, it's marketing. The one with the best public charme has the most followers.
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  6. #46
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    All that said, you'd think I'm anti-MBTI but I am not. I'm strongly against misuse and abuse which I tend to see more than proper usage. I'm glad most people take the tests go "oh" and then toss it in the category of astrology.
    Like Scanty passing the job requirements with flying colours but they made everyone take the MBTI, because they wanted an ESTJ and she was an INFP. So they didn't hire her!

    You can't trust people to be thoughtful.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    You might read Navigating Midlife and Creative Aging by Millner for examples of how the theory brings insights into these things.
    Or not. It doesn't change the fact that we're talking about a classification scheme. You can never glean that much insight from a classification scheme unless you start merging it with other, more analytical disciplines. But then of course, we're not just talking about a type theory anymore.

  8. #48
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    But you're describing unethical use of type. People aren't supposed to type other people.
    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching
    this forum often highlights ways to misuse the theory because many people here are self-taught with no exposure to the ethics of proper use of the theory, let alone how to use instruments, free or otherwise
    This forum highlights the Reality of how Type gets used. That seems plain and simple to me. I don't care whether it's 'unethical', it's how the theory gets used. The end. You can throw all the 'If's' out there that you want - IF everyone was properly trained, IF every single organization/institution was warm and fuzzy about using mbti, IF every individual/organization had access to properly trained facilitators so they could get properly trained in, if everyone wanted to totally believe said expert without theorizing on their own.... but this is human nature on display here. We'll never be to a point on this planet where everyone is ethical and everyone is responsible (and has the desire to be so). Is there always going to be an ethical Type Expert to guide everyone?

    Also..many on this forum aren't sold on the 'usefulness' of the instruments - so haven't accepted the theory in the first place. So, there's skepticism (which I think is a good thing) with some. Also, when you begin digging deeper into the theory, you start to realize that the 'experts' have conflicting ideas on it - hence those who are wanting to learn more run into conflicting ideas and might come up with their own instead (justifiably so) - so it's no wonder that misuse is rampant.

    And, people on here tend to know a lot more about type theory than your average joe - so more knowledge tends to lead towards more misuse. People use it for their own devices. Same would apply to larger organizations - they'd pick and choose the pieces they wanted to pay attention to and that would suit their own goals/business needs/objectives, most especially once they learn more of the details of the theory.

    Big-picture, before you learn the supposed nitty-gritty of the system, there's usefulness and truth to it. Yes, we can classify people into various temperaments and types. Humans have been doing that for millenia. But I'm in agreement with Protean - I think it's probably a good thing that most people who take the test and read their profiles just shrug their shoulders and don't dig any deeper.

    The ultimate truth of mbti is that we all have different prefences/communication styles/needs/priorities - we're all different. But as others have already mentioned, you don't really need mbti to figure that out or to communicate effectively. Mbti's just one categorization/classification system.
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  9. #49
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Like Scanty passing the job requirements with flying colours but they made everyone take the MBTI, because they wanted an ESTJ and she was an INFP. So they didn't hire her!

    You can't trust people to be thoughtful.
    Besides just making a priori assumption of "thats unethical", what's really wrong with that? I mean, there are some jobs where I think it makes sense to want to hire a certain style of person. When we dont label this "style" people dont think twice about it. An MBTI label, and everyone gets upset. Yes, people could game the MBTI tests and all try and get EXTJ, but lets steer clear of that point for a second:

    If you have two equally qualified candidates, what's wrong with hiring the ESTJ over the INFP, if ESTJ qualities are what you wanted to hire in the first place?

  10. #50
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Besides just making a priori assumption of "thats unethical", what's really wrong with that? I mean, there are some jobs where I think it makes sense to want to hire a certain style of person. When we dont label this "style" people dont think twice about it. An MBTI label, and everyone gets upset. Yes, people could game the MBTI tests and all try and get EXTJ, but lets steer clear of that point for a second:

    If you have two equally qualified candidates, what's wrong with hiring the ESTJ over the INFP, if ESTJ qualities are what you wanted to hire in the first place?
    IIRC, she was significantly more qualified than the others. They were dismayed to see her type because they had it figured out that they couldn't have any INFP for the job when there were candidates whose letters matched more clearly with the letters that they wanted. So they hired someone less qualified (by their own measurements of what "qualified" was--the MBTI was one of the last tests) because of nothing but her type.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

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