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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK, so you're still saying intuitives have less of a desire/need to reproduce.
    No, that's not what I'm saying. I should explain myself more clearly. I may have children someday. So might my ENFJ sister. The reason we have chosen to postpone having children is because we equalled it with being trapped in the same circumstances with which we were surrounded. I just have a theory that Ns may do this - even without a college degree. It doesn't mean we have less desire to reproduce.

    However there are a lot of "childfree" people these days, and I wonder how many of those people are Ns.

    I think what you're saying is being intuitive causes you not to want to have such "mainstream" desires. I don't believe that's true.
    I think it makes us more comfortable with not achieving certain cultural milestones within the same time frames as our peers. We simply value different things and have a different way of seeing life.

    MS can you address the points that have been brought up earlier in the thread, especially the ones I listed such as:
    1. Geographic location
    2. Race
    3. Education
    4. Cultural influences
    5. Politically affiliation
    6. Income
    7. Sexuality
    I don't think any of those things affect type.

  2. #42
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Are you implying that Sensors take better care of their families?



    So every time someone births a child they become an busybody SJ mother-hen, fretting about social norms and responsibilities?


    Sounds to me you are just projecting personal views and self reflections on general population.
    Society sure thinks that is (or should be) the case! Sj mothers are generally touted as the *ideal.*
    That's something I've dealt with quite a lot as a parent...a sense of failure for not waking up one morning magically transformed into an ESFJ mother and wife.

    ~*79% Extraverted*~
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  3. #43
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Double post.

    ~*79% Extraverted*~
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  4. #44
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    Society sure thinks that is (or should be) the case! Sj mothers are generally touted as the *ideal.*

  5. #45
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    Society sure thinks that is (or should be) the case! Sj mothers are generally touted as the *ideal.*
    That's something I've dealt with quite a lot as a parent...a sense of failure for not waking up one morning magically transformed into an ESFJ mother and wife.
    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I'm from a Hispanic family, I would say that where they are from, the average Introverts and Thinkers would be considered an X on both those axes by English standards.

    It's a cultural issue, with such big families and such an emphasis on being sociable, as well as being such a sentimental culture, it's hard not to develop your E and F - which I am grateful for.
    damn ESFJ culture permeates everywhere!!!! :steam:

  6. #46
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    damn ESFJ culture permeates everywhere!!!! :steam:


    Yeah, take THAT you lousy ESFJ.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #47
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Are you implying that Sensors take better care of their families?
    Well intuitives get to be smarter and more free-thinking (evidence: marm thinks they're more likely to go childfree), so yeah why not. *shrug*

    So every time someone births a child they become an busybody SJ mother-hen, fretting about social norms and responsibilities?
    No, re-read my post. I said parenting encourages more sensing and judging traits. Raising children requires giving some semblance of structure to their lives, caring for them in practical ways that most of the people here admit taxes them severely to even do for themselves. Details and all that crap. Keeping appointments, paying bills, your 401K, car maintenance, you know the mundane life. That kinda impedes upon the charmed life of a philosopher, dreamer, and lover.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
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  8. #48
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    damn ESFJ culture permeates everywhere!!!! :steam:
    Martha Stewart! Better Homes and Gardens! HGTV! The Food Network! The Pampered Chef! Mary Kay! The View!

    I simply cannot be a good parent and not make centerpieces out of pine cones and old bicycle tires! Fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Well intuitives get to be smarter and more free-thinking (evidence: marm thinks they're more likely to go childfree), so yeah why not. *shrug*
    Wait...what?

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  9. #49
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I'm not sure whether the frequency of types would vary according to circumstance. I'm thinking not. However, I think background can make a big difference with how you relate to people. I find ENFPs (or whatever) in science easier to talk to than ISTP construction workers, for example, because we are more likely to have common experience and interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, that's not what I'm saying. I should explain myself more clearly. I may have children someday. So might my ENFJ sister. The reason we have chosen to postpone having children is because we equalled it with being trapped in the same circumstances with which we were surrounded. I just have a theory that Ns may do this - even without a college degree. It doesn't mean we have less desire to reproduce.

    However there are a lot of "childfree" people these days, and I wonder how many of those people are Ns.
    It seems that you're implying that Ss are less likely to postpone children because they aren't thinking of these factors? Since you say that Ns are more likely to postpone children for this reason.

    I can't say I've done a survey, but I can give you my anecdotal example to balance yours. I am certainly thinking about these factors when thinking about the whole "children" thing.

    edit to add: education, which I do think relates to the children thing, may be altered by mbti. I would suspect that a lower % of Ns go to "trades" college and therefore end up instead in uni or not in school...but also that a higher % of SJs go to uni/college due to the excessive encouragement of this by our society. I'm not sure which factor would be more important. Uni at the grad level is very encouraging of N, though (imo). In fact I would say it's necessary to have very good N-type thinking to do well in grad school, which could exclude stronger or less flexible Ss.
    -end of thread-

  10. #50
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Just thinking in terms of Fi and Fe...I think minority status, social and/or economic, and perhaps early detachment from one's parents or social group(extremely high IQ...), fosters the development of strong Fi(but not necessarily a inherent preference for it). In particular, I think this occurs when those who are born at the extremes of social or economic privilege live amongst "the normal", with very little external support or reinforcement of their own reality.

    Fi is differentiation, but who does the differentiating? The development of the individual self as separate from "the group" or "the mother" is natural, but in terms whose "values" one grows to depend upon, well, this is more often than not determined for people at birth and into early childhood through social and economic stratification processes. Supporting "group norms" when they necessarily exclude or minimize you, is unlikely. On the other hand, a function like Fe can be feigned for survival and advancement in the cases of the socially and economically underprivileged, or the abused child, etc...And which is truly more "natural" than than the other under any particular circumstance? Just thinking...
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

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