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  1. #31
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Note: I don't own a copy of Do What You Are So I don't know what advice it (or any MBTI based source) gives in this regard (because I just dismissed that part off-hand).

    Here is part of the Table of Contents of the Amazon Preview, however.

    [IMG]
    Don't read it. It's useless.
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  2. #32
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I agree completely. I think the S descriptions are done poorly by the overwhelming majority of the sources. I avoided telling many S friends to read the written description (and rather try to explain it to them):

    [A] they believe it thoroughly and feel dejected (they can't be as smart as Ns)

    [B] they mistype themselves and choose N (especially the ones with ivy league educations, high test scores, very accomplished etc)

    [C] think the theory is bullshit


    Furthermore, I think the majority N types types believe this. It helps confirm their own notions of intellectual superiority since more of their self esteem is involved in how "smart" they are.

    I find many S types refreshing in the work place, because they are less likely to have intellectual ego (and occasionally this fact makes actually makes them more productive in solving a theoretical problem - not just sweeping floors).
    Thank you for this post! It explains precisely what I wanted to say, just in a clearer and less complicated way than my own attempts. I also appreciate that some Ns on this forum disagree with my point of view. Still, I found it important to make my point because I believe we are missing out on a lot of intellectual diversity in the MBTI community if we do not find ways around this issue.

  3. #33
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I agree there's a prejudice against S being seen as intelligent. The ENTP friend who turned me on to the MBTI originally thought my husband and I were both NTs. My husband is, I'm not. Although I get along well with NTPs and relate closely to the description of INFJ, I test reliably as an ISFJ. My friend often implied that SJs aren't as smart as NTs, and once even said my kids were smart because they had an NT parent (although I wouldn't rule out teasing as an objective).

    I read a posting earlier this week in which an SJ was welcomed to the forum with the message "hope this isn't too analytical for you." This seems to sum
    up the prejudice pretty well.

  4. #34
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I'm sorry if you've been talked down to. My ISFJs are computer scientists and forensics personnel and deep sea divers. That to me flies in the face of "not as smart".
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  5. #35
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    Hello,

    I read a posting earlier this week in which an SJ was welcomed to the forum with the message "hope this isn't too analytical for you." This seems to sum
    up the prejudice pretty well.
    That's nonsense.

    I'm sorry that you must deal with (unfounded) prejudice.

    It can be difficult for some to dismiss the suspicion that MBTI correlates with intelligence.

  6. #36
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    I think Keirseys Temperament type theory is sometimes more useful than the 16-type theory. I also think the issue with S-N is not so much about intelligence, but of interest. Different temperament types are interested in different issues. It might be that N-types are more interested in intellectual debate but that really doesn't mean that people that are not interested in it are not intelligent!

    I myself love to analyze myself and others people's personalities. I also love to discuss about deep life matters and feeling things and sometimes also mystical issues. I found out that I connect easiest with NF, NT and SP types when discussing the things I am very interested in. I have found out that SJ's are usually not interested in the topics I am. They are usually more interested in the real issues. As one ESTJ said to me "I do not like any nonsense, I'm realistic and like to talk about realistic issues." She thought all the things N-people like to speculate about were totally nonsense. She was not interested about so called intellectual debate. That does not mean that she was not intelligent in any way, it just meant that she was not interested. We had very nice discussions with her about our families, our dogs, even some personality issues but we never went into very "deep" in those conversations because she wanted to keep it that way and I respected it.
    Last edited by alcea rosea; 12-30-2007 at 05:53 AM.

  7. #37
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    Hello,

    I agree there's a prejudice against S being seen as intelligent. The ENTP friend who turned me on to the MBTI originally thought my husband and I were both NTs. My husband is, I'm not. Although I get along well with NTPs and relate closely to the description of INFJ, I test reliably as an ISFJ. My friend often implied that SJs aren't as smart as NTs, and once even said my kids were smart because they had an NT parent (although I wouldn't rule out teasing as an objective).

    I read a posting earlier this week in which an SJ was welcomed to the forum with the message "hope this isn't too analytical for you." This seems to sum
    up the prejudice pretty well.
    if your friend is that bad at typing and that close-minded, then the friend probably mistyped themselves.

    it happens a lot.
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  8. #38
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    I believe that the descirptions are fairly accurate, but they are written in language "N." The prototype for each personality draws on symbolism than the "S" may not see.

    For example, someone mentioned that their ISTP med student friends did not feel they jived with the "Mechanic" label. But if you can see the mechanic as a metaphor, then the discription is right on! Mechanics seek to identify what's wrong and improve it.... Is that NOT what doctors do? Yes, many doctors are mechanics of the body.

    My profile calls me a "Healer," I have no interest in the arts of medicine, but I can accept that title because I understand the metaphor.

    About ISFJ's.... No, there's no social bias in the desription! They usually do "follow the rules" and behave well. If you think following the rules means following the rules for fifty years ago, then you have a problem. Today, our social rules are much more lenient, so ISFP's will behave accordingly. Unfortunately, the SJ type is highly subjective to the cultural norms. They do follow the currently established rules, accoring to their own cultures and time periods.

    I do not follow the rules, I follow values. Therefore, I am sometimes more conservative in my choices than some ISFJs (because I do not set my values according to culture' ruling), but I am also more more unconventional in how I approach life.

    I do believe that the discriptions of the "S" types sound rather boring... Perhaps because the "N" types are sometimes bored by them as people. I think better discriptions, in terms of the language an "S" would use, would be well to be underway.

    Although we see the practial implications of personality typing, I have yet to meet an "S" who truly views this a valuable tool. Also, they do not care for speculations or theories.

  9. #39
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Don't read it. It's useless.
    I had it recommended to me by a career counselor, and I liked parts of it. I liked the parts of it that were about figuring out my type, since they helped my type (especially the E and S parts of it) make more sense to me. The career stuff (pretty much the entire point of the book) kind of sucked. None of the expected careers for my type sound appealing to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeannaBelle View Post
    Although we see the practial implications of personality typing, I have yet to meet an "S" who truly views this a valuable tool. Also, they do not care for speculations or theories.

    I agree that we don't care about speculations or theories, instead preferring real-world or tangible experience. Personally, though, I like personality typing BECAUSE it has real-world implications; there are types that I generally get along with, and types that I don't, and it explains (or at least attempts to explain) why people generally take on the roles that they do.

  10. #40
    Junior Member biv017's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    I read a posting earlier this week in which an SJ was welcomed to the forum with the message "hope this isn't too analytical for you." This seems to sum up the prejudice pretty well.
    I am a 50/50 split between ISFJ and ISTJ - most tests lean me towards ISFJ though. Personally I'm very proud of the ISFJ side of my personality.

    I find this quote amusing because I am contantly described by others as being very "analytical"... after all, ISFJ's do have their "rich, inner storehouse" of information about people, relationships, etc which is drawn on in everyday life. Its not that we can't be intellectual, but we would rather use our skills to build relationships than to pursue intellectualism itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by sui generis View Post

    Personally, though, I like personality typing BECAUSE it has real-world implications
    I completely agree! There's a number of practical, real world applications.

    As has been stated earlier, these tests should be more about preferences than ability. Too often the typecasting of SJ's relegates us to certain occupations just because we value order, stability and structure. There are actually a number of "alternative" careers that offer these values but are also intellectually rigorous. For example, one job I absolutely loved and thrived in was in the field of research/statistics - it satisfied my preferences for structure and predictability, but also involved working in a close and supportive team (satisfying F(e)). Yet you will never find this on any "typical" ISFJ career lists.

    I guess it goes to show that there is more to a career than just your personality. Don't get me wrong, I have benefited greatly from learning about myself and the kind of work environment I am most comfortable in. But you also need to take it with a grain of salt and realise that other things like interests, skills and abilities come into play in determining which career is right for you.
    Last edited by biv017; 07-03-2011 at 07:49 AM.

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