Different cultures have different roles for types?

[Virtual ghost]

So far there was only a talk about distributions of types in different countries and typing of cultures on this forum.


But to me it looks like that there is a observable difference between people of the same type which are from a different countries.

This forum has alot of post that are hostile towards the ESTJs. But to me it looks like that people which I would rate as ESTJs are not that bad.

Here is one more practical example.
Since European countries are less religious and patriotic the SJs here never get the chance to to get the rigidity which is so problematic to people on this forum. SJs have that potential but here they are not rised in the way as they are on some other parts of the world.
The cognitive process is the same/similar but the facts that the person is processing or values that the person helds are quite different.

Plus there is a fact that the differences in language from country to country are creating differences in the way of thinking.


All of this are reasons why I think that many advices given on this forum can be quite counter productive, especially since no one pays attention to this.
But this is probably quite important variable.

 

[CJ99]

Since European countries are less religious and patriotic the SJs here never get the chance to to get the rigidity which is so problematic to people on this forum. SJs have that potential but here they are not rised in the way as they are on some other parts of the world.
The cognitive process is the same/similar but the facts that the person is processing or values that the person helds are quite different.

Actually a lot of european countries are still in the act of becoming non religous and less rigid so i would argue that the problem is a lot of the time worse as there a lot of ESTJ holding on to traditions that more and more people are rejecting and most aren't taking the slowly shifting culture well.

I've had a few arguements with ESTJs over whether the UK is a christian country or not.

I could be completely wrong though as being only 17 the cultural shifts of my country aren't something i've hugely experienced.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Actually a lot of european countries are still in the act of becoming non religous and less rigid so i would argue that the problem is a lot of the time worse as there a lot of ESTJ holding on to traditions that more and more people are rejecting and most aren't taking the slowly shifting culture well.

I've had a few arguements with ESTJs over whether the UK is a christian country or not.

I could be completely wrong though as being only 17 the cultural shifts of my country aren't something i've hugely experienced.

I never claimed that situation is black and white.
But it looks to me that European SJs are not rigid as SJs in some other parts of the world.

 

[Cimarron]

Some people here suggest that roles/manifestations of a type differ between gender. If that is true, then I can see how it could be extended to different cultures, taking the logic from "different roles in society (male vs. female)" to "different societies".

About the SJ example, maybe it has something to do with how you (and others) perceive "rigidity". What you're saying makes sense, as they are still SJs, so they have the same behavioral tendencies but different context.

 

[Moiety]

I see what you mean. It would make sense that an SJ from...say...Holland/Netherlands, would be less rigid than most SJs from other countries.



The other day a friend of mine tested as ESTJ (he was actually born in America and raised there till he was 11; he then came to live in Portugal where his family is originally from) and I gotta say, if every ESTJ was like him no one would bad-mouth ESTJs.

 

[Shaula]

So far there was only a talk about distributions of types in different countries and typing of cultures on this forum.


But to me it looks like that there is a observable difference between people of the same type which are from a different countries.

True.

Some people here suggest that roles/manifestations of a type differ between gender. If that is true, then I can see how it could be extended to different cultures, taking the logic from "different roles in society (male vs. female)" to "different societies".

Culture is a tool for allowing the human species to organise its self and for self expression. Organisation is done through performing roles. In 'older' cultures women are usually held to stricter expectations, like taking care of the house and raising children. Often they are discouraged from playing the role of a man. Meanwhile men are held to the expectation of being a protector and provider for the famiy. In more a 'modern' culture these roles are often very lax. For example, it is socially acceptable for a father to stay home with the kids while the mother brings home the bacon. Therefore culture defines a person's role. Older cultures tend to base their decision on which sex plays what roles on biological factors, whereas modern cultures base these roles on psychological factors instead (what makes a person happy).

Now let's throw MBTI into the mix. Once upon a time there was an ISTJ female (A) who grew up in what I described as an 'older' culture, but one day she and her family moved into an area with a predominate 'modern' culture. One day she ran into a police woman who also happened to be an ISTJ (B). Both woman have a lot in common. They are planners, very dutiful, and value traditions. At first lady A is surprised and perhaps uncomfortable with woman B. She may think, "What's wrong with her? Doesn't she know that's a man's job?" She is upset because lady B is not conforming to the traditions that she was taught. Okay so now A feels it's her job to correct B but she is further vexed when woman B is offended by her good-intended advice. She says in reply, "Excuse me but I have the right to serve my community." Like A, B is also upholding the traditions that she was raised to believe. As a result in this senario, despite being so similar in personality the two cannot come to see eye to eye and there is probably further misinterpretations of each other. Perhaps in most circumstances they are both well liked and get along with others fine but they probably think of each other as a bitch in this case.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Some people here suggest that roles/manifestations of a type differ between gender. If that is true, then I can see how it could be extended to different cultures, taking the logic from "different roles in society (male vs. female)" to "different societies".

About the SJ example, maybe it has something to do with how you (and others) perceive "rigidity". What you're saying makes sense, as they are still SJs, so they have the same behavioral tendencies but different context.

I see what you mean. It would make sense that an SJ from...say...Holland/Netherlands, would be less rigid than most SJs from other countries.



The other day a friend of mine tested as ESTJ (he was actually born in America and raised there till he was 11; he then came to live in Portugal where his family is originally from) and I gotta say, if every ESTJ was like him no one would bad-mouth ESTJs.

I have used SJs only because it seems to me that this is the best example for representing the point clearly.

Culture is a tool for allowing the human species to organise its self and for self expression. Organisation is done through performing roles. In 'older' cultures women are usually held to stricter expectations, like taking care of the house and raising children. Often they are discouraged from playing the role of a man. Meanwhile men are held to the expectation of being a protector and provider for the famiy. In more a 'modern' culture these roles are often very lax. For example, it is socially acceptable for a father to stay home with the kids while the mother brings home the bacon. Therefore culture defines a person's role. Older cultures tend to base their decision on which sex plays what roles on biological factors, whereas modern cultures base these roles on psychological factors instead (what makes a person happy).

Now let's throw MBTI into the mix. Once upon a time there was an ISTJ female (A) who grew up in what I described as an 'older' culture, but one day she and her family moved into an area with a predominate 'modern' culture. One day she ran into a police woman who also happened to be an ISTJ (B). Both woman have a lot in common. They are planners, very dutiful, and value traditions. At first lady A is surprised and perhaps uncomfortable with woman B. She may think, "What's wrong with her? Doesn't she know that's a man's job?" She is upset because lady B is not conforming to the traditions that she was taught. Okay so now A feels it's her job to correct B but she is further vexed when woman B is offended by her good-intended advice. She says in reply, "Excuse me but I have the right to serve my community." Like A, B is also upholding the traditions that she was raised to believe. As a result in this senario, despite being so similar in personality the two cannot come to see eye to eye and there is probably further misinterpretations of each other. Perhaps in most circumstances they are both well liked and get along with others fine but they probably think of each other as a bitch in this case.

Exactly.