Is Ti a right or left brained function and why?

[The Great One]

What is Ti: a right or left brained function? I really could see it as either. I know that Lenore Thompson brands it as a right-brained function, but what do you think it really is and why?

 

[WALMART]

I think it has to do with the difference between preference for Se or Ne. I think Se users are more left-brained, and vice versa.

 

[iNtrovert]

I think it has to do with the difference between preference for Se or Ne. I think Se users are more left-brained, and vice versa.

That's my deduction as well. Dario Nardi Neurosciece of personality explains why that is but i'll attempt to give you a general ideal. Lenore Thompson classifies Ti as right brained because of the logical framework it builds and it's motivating factors. However, if you look at the 2 types that use Ti as their leading or dominate function (ISTP & INTP) it's clear that one prefers to use Se as their auxiliary and the other Ne. They use Ti as a function with 2 different sides of the brain. Functions associated with Se are located on the right side of the brain such as visual and oratory retention.Also the part of the brain that allows you to construct a mental picture from the acquisition of many details thus ISTP's will be using Ti with left brained functions. Ne however deals with the abstract and is more holistic. Its functions are largely located on the right side of the brain such as the ability to test concepts based on categorical data and navigate complex problems containing many variables .Therefore an INTP's would use Ti with right brained functions.

The Ti function gives Ti doms the ability to dissect and analyse from different angles to collect information and add those details to its internal framework. Ti is logical but it is a subjective way of thinking as a whole opposed to objective because of the direction of the T. Ti does not take facts into account for the sake of facts but to serve it's own internal subjective framework. TiSe would be used to dissect and study something using a more detailed oriented approach. Ti would serve a piratical purpose taking apart things in a physical sense. TiNe would be used holistically taking apart abstract frameworks. Ti in this case is used for a more theoretical purpose. The function of Ti dom itself is dependent on the focus of it's auxiliary.

It's like a doctors specialty. There is general medical knowledge that all doctors must have but a neurologist and a cardiologist have very different functions. Being a doctor is such a small part of the purpose of a neurologist or a cardiologist it does them a disservice to say they work the same because they both work to heal people. It makes much more sense to say that a neurologist works to heal the brain and a cardiologist works to heal the heart. Such as it would do Ti a disservice to say Ti is a function of one side of the brain when the function is used differently when paired with Se vs Ne. I can draw Similar comparisons between Entp an Estp but this post is already too long and it made more sense to me to use Ti dom opposed to Ti aux or even my own experience with Ti.

 

[WALMART]

That's my deduction as well. Dario Nardi Neurosciece of personality explains why that is but i'll attempt to give you a general ideal. Lenore Thompson classifies Ti as right brained because of the logical framework it builds and it's motivating factors. However, if you look at the 2 types that use Ti as their leading or dominate function (ISTP & INTP) it's clear that one prefers to use Se as their auxiliary and the other Ne. They use Ti as a function with 2 different sides of the brain. Functions associated with Se are located on the right side of the brain such as visual and oratory retention.Also the part of the brain that allows you to construct a mental picture from the acquisition of many details thus ISTP's will be using Ti with left brained functions. Ne however deals with the abstract and is more holistic. Its functions are largely located on the right side of the brain such as the ability to test concepts based on categorical data and navigate complex problems containing many variables .Therefore an INTP's would use Ti with right brained functions.

The Ti function gives Ti doms the ability to dissect and analyse from different angles to collect information and add those details to its internal framework. Ti is logical but it is a subjective way of thinking as a whole opposed to objective because of the direction of the T. Ti does not take facts into account for the sake of facts but to serve it's own internal subjective framework. TiSe would be used to dissect and study something using a more detailed oriented approach. Ti would serve a piratical purpose taking apart things in a physical sense. TiNe would be used holistically taking apart abstract frameworks. Ti in this case is used for a more theoretical purpose. The function of Ti dom itself is dependent on the focus of it's auxiliary.

It's like a doctors specialty. There is general medical knowledge that all doctors must have but a neurologist and a cardiologist have very different functions. Being a doctor is such a small part of the purpose of a neurologist or a cardiologist it does them a disservice to say they work the same because they both work to heal people. It makes much more sense to say that a neurologist works to heal the brain and a cardiologist works to heal the heart. Such as it would do Ti a disservice to say Ti is a function of one side of the brain when the function is used differently when paired with Se vs Ne. I can draw Similar comparisons between Entp an Estp but this post is already too long and it made more sense to me to use Ti dom opposed to Ti aux or even my own experience with Ti.

I'm glad you also see Ti as a subjectively objective function. Tricksy, those Ti users.

 

[iNtrovert]

Tricky indeed.. none the less I prefer Ti to Te any day if only I was more skilled. You must teach me your Ti ways

 

[RaptorWizard]

[MENTION=17164]iNtrovert[/MENTION] your in-depth explanation on the nature of Ti and the many angles from which it sees and perceives things seemed very much like Ti.

Now a lot of people on this site, 50 or more percent classify me as ITP, either one, but I don't understand the mechanisms by which it operates quite so well.

Turning to Nardi's research though is a good move, seeing he has empirically proven via neuroscience how the brain for different personality types will work for each of them as a broad generalization.

So, do you have anything else you would like to say about ITPs and what the difference between the 2 is?

Personally, all I know so far is function difference and Expert Classifier/Deductive Analyst/Factual Storekeeper (INTP's systems analyst design) Vs. Tactical Navigator/Strategic Gamer/Abstract Impressionist (ISTP's problem solving setup), the former thinking more with abstract theory, and the latter working more with active application.

 

[Infinite Bubble]

Ti is supposed to be holistic rather than linear thinking, so that would line up more with the right brain. But I don't know if functions should be thought of like that... maybe more of specific areas of the brain working in unison.

 

[The Great One]

That's my deduction as well. Dario Nardi Neurosciece of personality explains why that is but i'll attempt to give you a general ideal. Lenore Thompson classifies Ti as right brained because of the logical framework it builds and it's motivating factors. However, if you look at the 2 types that use Ti as their leading or dominate function (ISTP & INTP) it's clear that one prefers to use Se as their auxiliary and the other Ne. They use Ti as a function with 2 different sides of the brain. Functions associated with Se are located on the right side of the brain such as visual and oratory retention.Also the part of the brain that allows you to construct a mental picture from the acquisition of many details thus ISTP's will be using Ti with left brained functions. Ne however deals with the abstract and is more holistic. Its functions are largely located on the right side of the brain such as the ability to test concepts based on categorical data and navigate complex problems containing many variables .Therefore an INTP's would use Ti with right brained functions.

The Ti function gives Ti doms the ability to dissect and analyse from different angles to collect information and add those details to its internal framework. Ti is logical but it is a subjective way of thinking as a whole opposed to objective because of the direction of the T. Ti does not take facts into account for the sake of facts but to serve it's own internal subjective framework. TiSe would be used to dissect and study something using a more detailed oriented approach. Ti would serve a piratical purpose taking apart things in a physical sense. TiNe would be used holistically taking apart abstract frameworks. Ti in this case is used for a more theoretical purpose. The function of Ti dom itself is dependent on the focus of it's auxiliary.

It's like a doctors specialty. There is general medical knowledge that all doctors must have but a neurologist and a cardiologist have very different functions. Being a doctor is such a small part of the purpose of a neurologist or a cardiologist it does them a disservice to say they work the same because they both work to heal people. It makes much more sense to say that a neurologist works to heal the brain and a cardiologist works to heal the heart. Such as it would do Ti a disservice to say Ti is a function of one side of the brain when the function is used differently when paired with Se vs Ne. I can draw Similar comparisons between Entp an Estp but this post is already too long and it made more sense to me to use Ti dom opposed to Ti aux or even my own experience with Ti.

So in other words Ti can shift either way based on whether it is used with an intuitive or a sensing function. My question however, is whether it is a right or left brained function in general? It sounds like you think it leans more towards the right brain?

 

[iNtrovert]

So in other words Ti can shift either way based on whether it is used with an intuitive or a sensing function. My question however, is whether it is a right or left brained function in general? It sounds like you think it leans more towards the right brain?

I'm sorry maybe I wasn't clear the answer is in the 3rd paragraph. I'll try to go into more detail in this post.

Ok so lets recap in my op I said
"The Ti function gives Ti doms the ability to dissect and analyse from different angles to collect information and add those details to its internal framework. Ti is logical but it is a subjective way of thinking as a whole opposed to objective because of the direction of the T. Ti does not take facts into account for the sake of facts but to serve it's own internal subjective framework"

Now let's break this point down:

What I failed to explain here is looking at the different regions of the brain the ability to do this and the side of the brain that allows a Ti user to do this is ambiguous. That is why Ti differs depending on Se and Ne. Dario Nardi uses a diagram of the brain to show the different regions Ti doms (ISTP and INTP) that register as having the highest levels of activity:

ISTPs have Fp1(top left side of the brain ) P3(lower left side)02(bottom right side) and P4(lower right side) as highest levels of activity.

INTPs have Fp1(Top left side of the brain) F3 (top left side)F4(upper right) and C3(upper left) as highest levels of activity.

The only region they have in common in the highest activity range is Fp1 which is a region located in the left side of the brain. Dario Nardi defines Fp1 as the "chief judge: Focus on explaining, making decisions, noting errors and screening out distracting information."

Does that sound like Ti? Somewhat but not really. Ti is analytic and it is a judging function but a big part of Ti is seeing things as individual parts of a whole. Not just analysing them but dissecting AND reconstructing them based on their internal frame work. Not just deciding which angle to accept but seeing from many different angles. Fp1(top left) is not entirely responsible for Ti yet while looking at the highest level of brain activity in 2 Ti doms it is the only common region. That is why I feel Ti depends on Se and Ne for orientation. When you think about it it makes sense. You are going to need a very different mental tool box to dissect and reconstruct physical objects opposed to dissecting and reconstructing a complex theory.

Ti is more like a lump of clay that is shaped by it's user to produce a unique result than it is a mass produced mold that can only produce one final product. It is ambiguous by it's very nature both objective and subjective left and right. So to answer your question I lean towards neither left or right when looking at Ti as a stand alone function because I don't believe Ti can stand alone as a function.I have found nothing in my research to suggest that it can. Ti needs a subject because unlike Te it does not value information for the sake of information. It values facts and logic for a specific purpose,to fit into a unique personal frame work and therefor cannot stand alone as either left or right brained.

If your really interested in the neuroscience behind type you should invest in The neuroscience of personality. I do my best but there is a LOT more that can be said regarding Ti. His book really explains how the brain works together to establish types and functions and does so a lot better than can. It's an excellent research tool and can award you a lot of clarity when dealing with types and functions from the neurological perspective. The book is inexpensive and invaluable and it also includes some self typing tools regarding mbti.

[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION] , Your right! I may us Ti a little more than I thought. As much as i'd love to toot my on horn about the an INFJs use of Ti I know my Ti is no where near as developed as a Ti dom and never will be . I really don't think my thought processes are as clear when I explain them. I also find I think really metaphorically and can hardly explain anything without using one. I'm pretty elated that someone said I used Ti because I've been trying to develop it as much as I can while i'm still being academically stimulated regularly( I'm still in college). I'd be happy to share my thoughts with you about ITP's. Send me a message and I i'll give you my whole take on it. ITP's are fascinating to me and I'm hoping you can give me a glimpse of what your experiences are with being an ITP as well

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=17164]iNtrovert[/MENTION]

Wow that's really interesting. So what would Ti look like in an INFJ such as yourself then, and can you give me any links to reference this guy's theory? The reason I ask is there's this stupid mofo on youtube that is going around saying that Jungian functions are bullshit and that the real answer lies in 4 brain functions that he has developed. I am trying to crush this guy in an argument and I don't have any solid references to any good material. Check it out, I'm nelsne on youtube....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTTCjFwBsxw&list=FL2A93WgKrh6k_WWi5hUG02Q&feature=mh_lolz

 

[iNtrovert]

Sure, this is a 1 hr lecture he gave @ google it gives an overview of his study. Watching this prompted me to purchase the book because I really couldn't find many online sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGfhQTbcqmA

TypeC also has a thread and the feed back from other who have read the book provide some insight.


http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...6-dario-nardi-s-neuroscience-personality.html

I'll check the link you sent out to and i'll keep digging around online to see if there are some useful sources I missed.

 

[The Great One]

Sure, this is a 1 hr lecture he gave @ google it gives an overview of his study. Watching this prompted me to purchase the book because I really couldn't find many online sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGfhQTbcqmA

TypeC also has a thread and the feed back from other who have read the book provide some insight.


http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...6-dario-nardi-s-neuroscience-personality.html

I'll check the link you sent out to and i'll keep digging around online to see if there are some useful sources I missed.

Thank you. This man's theory needs to be crushed.

 

[527468]

According to Thomson, Js are not "decision"-making types but simply have an easier approach making judgments where little information is present. Similarly Ps are not types that hold off, they actually gather information more quickly. Instead, Tx and Fx primaries are mostly the decision-makers and Nx and Sx primaries moreso embrace open-ended information. Stated always in the foundation of her work, the actual difference between Js vs Ps are defined as "characteristics" of left-brainedness vs right-brainedness (though not physical hemisphere use.) Her definitions of J are construed as long-term efficiency and P is construed as immersion of the current situation, ie.

Judgers (functions of Te, Fe, Ni, Si)
- Find it easier to ignore sensations wherever possible
- Prioritize the knowledge of things instead of perceiving the reality
- Are slow to perceive, rely on a predetermined understanding
- Focus on conceptualizing and defining
- Accept one thing at a time, ie:
- "Don't disrupt my current state-of-mind by giving me new information. My goal is efficiency."
- Desire instead to put one's preconceived ideas and principles into effect, to test them
- IJs (Ni and Si): Conceive a long-term general understanding
- EJs: Utilize a long-term general understanding

Perceivers (functions of Ti, Fi, Ne, Se)
- Find it easier not to hold permanent ideas or opinions
- Instead prioritize the materialization of the event at hand, the impacts being made
- Slow to judge, rely on cues to make decisions
- Focus on immersing in and supporting the situation
- Accept all things at once, ie:
- "Don't disrupt the event unfolding by drawing attention away from it, towards one specific concept or thing."
- Desire instead to sharpen one's perspective with new context
- IPs (Ti and Fi): Find the most relevant current reaction or solution
- EPs: Have the most attuned immediate clarity

Source: "Personality Type"

So in a lot of ways she is saying that Js promote efficiency and Ps promote practicality, in whatever personal ventures they support. Is more energy spent toward revising and upholding the system, or is it more spent toward taking and observing the right actions in real-time? The functions go something like this:

Ni and Si - conceptual information gathering
Ne and Se - experiential information gathering
Ti and Fi - experiential decision-making
Te and Fe - conceptual decision-making

 

[KDude]

I'm generally in support of Thomson, but I consider myself left brained.

OTOH, it could be that I'm right brained, but simply know the weaknesses and pitfalls (I've fallen into them before).

 

[Entropic]

Nardi's research suggests that the areas that correspond to Ti to be on the left hemisphere but I don't think it's that easy to pinpoint. The only type that I know is very clearly left-brained according to Nardi's research is the ExTJ and INxJ is very clearly right-brained. The rest of the types seem to on average use about an equal amount of both hemispheres.

There are many things I like about Thomson (her function descriptions for example) but her theory about brain use is not one of them and I think she's stretching too far, especially since she has absolutely zero to back up why a type would use this side over another side.

 

[Such Irony]

According to Thomson, Js are not decision-making types and Ps are not information-gathering types. Tx and Fx primaries are mostly the decision-makers and Nx and Sx primaries are mostly the information-gatherers. Stated always in the foundation of her work, the difference between Js vs Ps are defined as common characteristics of left-brainedness vs right-brainedness, ie.

Judgers
- Support ignoring perception where possible
- Focus instead on the knowledge itself
- Prioritizing conceptualization
- "Don't disrupt my thoughts by giving me new information. My goal is general efficiency."
- IJs (Ni and Si): Conceiving a long-term general understanding
- EJs: Utilizing a long-term general understanding

Perceivers
- Support not holding any strong opinions
- Focus instead on the materialization of the event at hand
- Prioritizing immersing in the immediate situation
- "Don't disrupt the event unfolding by drawing attention away towards a specific concept or thing."
- IPs (Ti and Fi): Finding the best immediate solution or reaction
- EPs: Having the best immediate engagement

Source: "Personality Type."

So the functions go something like this:

Ni and Si - conceptual information gathering
Ne and Se - experiential information gathering
Ti and Fi - experiential decision-making
Te and Fe - conceptual decision-making

Going by those descriptions, I fit J more than P.

I also get INTJ on Lenore's test.

 

[527468]

There are many things I like about Thomson (her function descriptions for example) but her theory about brain use is not one of them and I think she's stretching too far, especially since she has absolutely zero to back up why a type would use this side over another side.

I've always related to having strong stereotypical manifestations of the right-brained individual, but Thomson seems to define the referred cognitive elements a bit more intuitively (iow, I don't think she is implying types are left-brained or right-brained, but uses hemispheres as a visual basis for explanation.) I understand we're wondering more about physical brain-activity.

Going by those descriptions, I fit J more than P.

I also get INTJ on Lenore's test.

As for her book, I really suggest ignoring the stereotypical preferences of J vs P when reading it and give each type a new perspective. Her book is a bit too in-depth to be worrying about stereotypes, especially those which seem mostly influenced from life-induced propensities. There is more clarity of psychology in her explanation.

I also reworded the above post slightly.

 

[Infinite Bubble]

INxJ is very clearly right-brained.

I'm glad you brought that up, because as a supposed J, I've always related to descriptions of the right brain, usually thought of as the most holistic and "artistic" side (even though the entire theory has been debunked, I believe). So when I read about Thompson's theory that Ni is a left brain function, and Judgers in general being left brained, I began to doubt my type.

 

[Entropic]

I'm glad you brought that up, because as a supposed J, I've always related to descriptions of the right brain, usually thought of as the most holistic and "artistic" side (even though the entire theory has been debunked, I believe). So when I read about Thompson's theory that Ni is a left brain function, and Judgers in general being left brained, I began to doubt my type.

I have this image of an INTJ brain from Nardi's research (all of it can be found online but hey, saves you the hassle) where the INTJ uses almost the entire right hemisphere:



Also, even though my supposed Jungian type is INFP and the F function is strongly correlated to some parts of the left brain, I also identify more with being right-brained person. I am not entirely sure how Nardi differentiates between Myers-Briggs typing which really just measures what Jung called the persona and actual cognitive functions.

 

[KDude]

I think J/P temperament theories have turned things into a bit of a mess. If I went by Jung, the Ni doms would be the right brainers. In MBTI, they're more conscientiousness. If I used religious terminology, they're monks and nuns. The Jungian INFJ in religious terminology is more stream of consciousness. Poet or prophet (I kind of have Patti Smith in mind). The latter is totally right brain.