White Women Drinking themselves to death

[kyuuei]

Just to give a slice of my own personal experiences, since I am in this demographic:

- People want to buy me drinks or serve me drinks constantly. CONSTANTLY. If I have one drink, I SURELY would be insane to not want more. They're free right??!
- People in group gatherings seem to have a lot of fun with women who are drinking moreso than sober. My habit at parties: Mocktails... I order a cranberry juice, and I will specifically ask the bartender to put it in a legit-looking alcoholic glass. I brought a bottle of sparkling grape juice with an actual champagne cork to NYE this year. There's a picture of me pouring this drink into a glass and everyone giving my positive praise for pouring myself 'another'. I make very pretty, alcoholic-looking drinks and sip on them throughout the night. I have noticed when I have nothing in my hand, people are very upset about it for a variety of reasons... most of them stupid ones. If I'm dancing, talking, and drinking... a thing... people calm right tf down.
- People who like to drink like others to drink. Miss Fortune had a very very excellent write-up once upon a time about how it makes people uncomfortable and forces them to examine themselves when they see someone not conforming to the habit of drinking. To me, drinking should be a side-event to a party.. for most: it ignites and creates it. No one wants to be loud, proud, and have fun without first drinking a few. I don't know why, and I'll never understand why.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Then why did you mention the other thread in your OP?

I didn't want to post this article in that thread and thought the topic deserved its own thread.

But, again, the rise in alcohol related issues among college educated white women is the topic of this thread. It is not a general thread about alcohol related issues. It is especially not about male alcohol issues.

If you desire to discuss alcohol issues related to men, then start a thread on that topic.

If you want to start a general thread regarding alcohol issues, start a thread on that topic.

Seems pretty simple that this thread is about increasing of binge drinking among college educated women.

If you have ideas on that topic, please share them. No need to bring in other off-topic material.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]

I didn't want to post this article in that thread and thought the topic deserved its own thread.

You should have posted it in that thread if you thought it was relevant to the topic of sexual assault determinations.

I see no reason you would mention the other thread in THIS opening post unless you were trying to slyly insinuate that any sexual assault the OP faced was only due to the inebriation of the OP and therefore the topic of "White womens binge drinking on the rise" somehow connects to that thread topic.

Where if someone says they were sexually assaulted AND binge drank like that OP, sexual assault isn't the prominent issue, binge drinking is the prominent issue. (Was the OP even white? Do we know?)

Anyway. You shouldn't have mentioned the callback to that thread if this was it's own topic. As such, I don't see this conversation as off-topic as you "opened that door".

I'm just airing the room out.

 

[Amargith]

Just to give a slice of my own personal experiences, since I am in this demographic:

- People want to buy me drinks or serve me drinks constantly. CONSTANTLY. If I have one drink, I SURELY would be insane to not want more. They're free right??!
- People in group gatherings seem to have a lot of fun with women who are drinking moreso than sober. My habit at parties: Mocktails... I order a cranberry juice, and I will specifically ask the bartender to put it in a legit-looking alcoholic glass. I brought a bottle of sparkling grape juice with an actual champagne cork to NYE this year. There's a picture of me pouring this drink into a glass and everyone giving my positive praise for pouring myself 'another'. I make very pretty, alcoholic-looking drinks and sip on them throughout the night. I have noticed when I have nothing in my hand, people are very upset about it for a variety of reasons... most of them stupid ones. If I'm dancing, talking, and drinking... a thing... people calm right tf down.
- People who like to drink like others to drink. Miss Fortune had a very very excellent write-up once upon a time about how it makes people uncomfortable and forces them to examine themselves when they see someone not conforming to the habit of drinking. To me, drinking should be a side-event to a party.. for most: it ignites and creates it. No one wants to be loud, proud, and have fun without first drinking a few. I don't know why, and I'll never understand why.

Ive had people insist I was drunk as a skunk, the morning after a party. When I told them I've never been drunk in my life, they didn't believe me. They'd seen me dancing on a table and believed that it proved I was drunk...

I also get a lot of questions and comments about not drinking and I have in the past done as you, ordered a mocktail just to 'be part of the gang', as such and it does make people feel more at ease. I also find that once I stress that I don't drink because I don't like the taste, not because it's some moral imperative...people relax a little. It still takes meeting up with them 4-5 times and not drinking when they do before they stop mentioning it, though

Also..the other day I ended up bringing my own juice to a party because the hostess did NOT want me drinking water there (coz its not festive, apparently), unless I was pregnant, but, since it was a holiday, none of the stores near her were open (and I have one that is nearby), so yeah...I jumped through a bunch of hoops and got my own coz apparently water was not allowed

I ended up spiking it a little with a special alcohol she had (I added plenty of juice so the taste wouldn't bother me), which made her happy

 

[SearchingforPeace]

[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]


You should have posted it in that thread if you thought it was relevant to the topic of sexual assault determinations.

I see no reason you would mention the other thread in THIS opening post unless you were trying to slyly insinuate that any sexual assault the OP faced was only due to the inebriation of the OP and therefore the topic of "White womens binge drinking on the rise" somehow connects to that thread topic.

Where if someone says they were sexually assaulted AND binge drank like that OP, sexual assault isn't the prominent issue, binge drinking is the prominent issue. (Was the OP even white? Do we know?)

Anyway. You shouldn't have mentioned the callback to that thread if this was it's own topic. As such, I don't see this conversation as off-topic as you "opened that door".

I'm just airing the room out.

Sorry, you don't get to tell me how and why I post.

And I didn't "open any door" into male binge drinking.

I didn't post an article about a rise in male binge drinking or male alcohol problems, and I have not seen one recently. I ran into the WaPo article unintentionally.

I didn't post it in that thread because it is a support and advice thread in the context of one person. It really is not the place for a general discussion on the rise of college educated white women binge drinking.

Now, you can either discuss the topic as set forth or start your own thread on the way you want to discuss the issues you want.

I find changes in groups interesting in and of themselves. If a group starts behaving differently, it is wise to explore that difference.

So, your posts here remain off topic. If you care to address the topic of college educated white women increasingly engaging in binge drinking, I would welcome your thoughts.

Otherwise, you really are not adding to the discussion in a productive manner.....

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Sorry, you don't get to tell me how and why I post.

And I didn't "open any door" into male binge drinking.

I didn't post an article about a rise in male binge drinking or male alcohol problems, and I have not seen one recently. I ran into the WaPo article unintentionally.

I didn't post it in that thread because it is a support and advice thread in the context of one person. It really is not the place for a general discussion on the rise of college educated white women binge drinking.

Now, you can either discuss the topic as set forth or start your own thread on the way you want to discuss the issues you want.

I find changes in groups interesting in and of themselves. If a group starts behaving differently, it is wise to explore that difference.

So, your posts here remain off topic. If you care to address the topic of college educated white women increasingly engaging in binge drinking, I would welcome your thoughts.

Otherwise, you really are not adding to the discussion in a productive manner.....

It's pretty simple. If you didn't mention that previous thread in THIS opening post, I wouldn't have need to connect the two. Get it?

Otherwise, it reads like a troll thread, TBH. Where you get to double down on your opinion on that thread by "vaguely" referencing that topic to this one. It's pretty slick because anyone calling you out on it is "off-topic" but it's not "off-topic" because you're the one who brought that thread into this one.

If this subject stood on its own to you, you wouldn't need to refer to the other thread, and if you wanted to discuss the impact of drinking and sexual assault you should have been direct about it and opened that up for discussion.

That's why I said it's a troll thread by mentioning the other thread in this OP. Then asking me to play by your rules and post only what you want but you want me to avoid the correlation to your opinions on the other post that YOU spotlit?

I can't talk about that but you can make a round-about argument that reinforces your opinion and no one can question it?

 

[SearchingforPeace]

It's pretty simple. If you didn't mention that previous thread in THIS opening post, I wouldn't have need to connect the two. Get it?

Otherwise, it reads like a troll thread, TBH. Where you get to double down on your opinion on that thread by "vaguely" referencing that topic to this one. It's pretty slick because anyone calling you out on it is "off-topic" but it's not "off-topic" because you're the one who brought that thread into this one.

If this subject stood on its own to you, you wouldn't need to refer to the other thread, and if you wanted to discuss the impact of drinking and sexual assault you should have been direct about it and opened that up for discussion.

That's why I said it's a troll thread by mentioning the other thread in this OP. Then asking me to play by your rules and post only what you want but you want me to avoid the correlation to your opinions on the other post that YOU spotlit?

I can't talk about that but you can make a round-about argument that reinforces your opinion and no one can question it?

The only person trolling here is you. I posted a thread and the reasons why I did. You seem to have entered this thread with a huge chip on your shoulder intent on derailing it. Your posts here sing with hostility.

This topic is a straightforward discussion. Any emotions or disturbance it causes in you are about your own issues. You have made no real effort to engage the topic.

Again, if you want to discuss general alcohol problems or male binge drinking, start your own thread. It is off topic here.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

The only person trolling here is you. I posted a thread and the reasons why I did. You seem to have entered this thread with a huge chip on your shoulder intent on derailing it. Your posts here sing with hostility.

This topic is a straightforward discussion. Any emotions or disturbance it causes in you are about your own issues. You have made no real effort to engage the topic.

Again, if you want to discuss general alcohol problems or male binge drinking, start your own thread. It is off topic here.

Nope. I'm nowhere near hostile and have not been rude to you. I'm simply calling you out for what I see are underhanded tactics and you do this a lot. No one says anything because you come after them with exhaustive ad hominems about their emotional stability.

Well, that doesn't bother me so go on...I'll wait.

But in the meantime, I would advise you to modify your OP to include the argument you really want to make. Which is the same one in the other S&A thread that you opted out of there (which was fair). But you should have brought it here and doubled down on it instead of feeding your ego by setting your footprint opinion in the OP and telling everyone to walk another way.

You won't. In fact, you'll probably report me to the mods. I'm okay with that. I would go on record myself that unless the OP is modified by either removing said references to other thread - or - adding that topic to this thread for discussion, I am reporting it as a troll thread.

Let the chips fall where they may.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Nope. I'm nowhere near hostile and have not been rude to you. I'm simply calling you out for what I see are underhanded tactics and you do this a lot. No one says anything because you come after them with exhaustive ad hominems about their emotional stability.

Well, that doesn't bother me so go on...I'll wait.

But in the meantime, I would advise you to modify your OP to include the argument you really want to make. Which is the same one in the other S&A thread that you opted out of there (which was fair). But you should have brought it here and doubled down on it instead of feeding your ego by setting your footprint opinion in the OP and telling everyone to walk another way.

You won't. In fact, you'll probably report me to the mods. I'm okay with that. I would go on record myself that unless the OP is modified by either removing said references to other thread - or - adding that topic to this thread for discussion, I am reporting it as a troll thread.

Let the chips fall where they may.

It is sad to see that you refuse to engage the topic and instead continue to engage in your hostility and attempted derailment.

There is no "underhanded " attempt to do anything but engage the topic.

If you are unable to do so, for whatever reason, feel free not to post. Otherwise, your behavior represents a pattern intended to derail the thread and disrupt the discussion, i.e. trolling.

I hope to have a constructive discussion of the topic, even though you seem to have zero desire to do anything but troll and detail.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

It is sad to see that you refuse to engage the topic and instead continue to engage in your hostility and attempted derailment.

There is no "underhanded " attempt to do anything but engage the topic.

If you are unable to do so, for whatever reason, feel free not to post. Otherwise, your behavior represents a pattern intended to derail the thread and disrupt the discussion, i.e. trolling.

I hope to have a constructive discussion of the topic, even though you seem to have zero desire to do anything but troll and detail.

Reported. I'm not engaging anymore. I don't have issue with this topic. I take issue with how you presented it and under what guise you presented it.

 

[Lark]

It could be trauma related, I also think its got to do with boredom and alienation.

In terms to tackling both of those later things we've only scratched the surface, if at all.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Reported. I'm not engaging anymore. I don't have issue with this topic. I take issue with how you presented it and under what guise you presented it.

Again, the issues you are bringing up are about you and not me. You are projecting onto me your ideas and issues and ignoring the topic at hand.

Not that you will likely do so, perhaps you should ponder why you reacted in the manner you did to this thread. It might be useful.

Happy New Year

 

[OrangeAppled]

This isn't suprising. Educated white women having more prominence in the workforce, and going home or going to a bar to "unwind" same as any other 9-5'er.

Instead of cracking open a beer, it's opening a bottle of Pinot Grigio.

But this is a problem that affects men in greater numbers and socially seems to have a great impact than women at this point, at least.

Since the OP specifically made a callback to a previous thread concerning sexual assault and alcohol being related, I don't believe this is off topic to include these following statements as OP's concern for women's sexual safety is noted in this thread. I would also like to state my own concern for men's sexual safety and well-being.


Drinking levels among men

Approximately 58% of adult men report drinking alcohol in the last 30 days.

Approximately 23% of adult men report binge drinking 5 times a month, averaging 8 drinks per binge.

Men are almost two times more likely to binge drink than women.

Most (90%) people who binge drink are not alcoholics or alcohol dependent.

About 4.5% of men and 2.5% of women met the diagnostic criteria for alcohol dependence in the past year.

Injuries and deaths as a result of excessive alcohol use

Men consistently have higher rates of alcohol-related deaths and hospitalizations than women.

Among drivers in fatal motor-vehicle traffic crashes, men are almost twice as likely as women to have been intoxicated (i.e., a blood alcohol concentration of 0.08% or greater).

Excessive alcohol consumption increases aggression and, as a result, can increase the risk of physically assaulting another person.

Men are more likely than women to commit suicide, and more likely to have been drinking prior to committing suicide.

---
While these increases in white women drinking more is concerning, I cannot help but see this is MORE an issue that affects men in greater numbers and in greater severity. As such, is much more in need of combatting and highlighting.

I realize this may be off topic. If so, I will start a thread on it and this will be my own OP.

Relevant because women are probably drinking more and developing problems with alcohol for many of the same reasons men drink and develop problems with it. Women still tend to have stronger emotional networks for support and to feel freer to seek professional help like therapy, and that's probably why they aren't at the levels men are at yet.

So we have a problem with people not dealing with stress, having too much of it, not having enough emotional support, and then it becoming socially acceptable* to get drunk and self-medicate.

*I agree with the notion that college binge-drinking may encourage this too.

 

[Coriolis]

Relevant because women are probably drinking more and developing problems with alcohol for many of the same reasons men drink and develop problems with it. Women still tend to have stronger emotional networks for support and to feel freer to seek professional help like therapy, and that's probably why they aren't at the levels men are at yet.

So we have a problem with people not dealing with stress, having too much of it, not having enough emotional support, and then it becoming socially acceptable* to get drunk and self-medicate.

*I agree with the notion that college binge-drinking may encourage this too.

My first reaction to the topic was: equal opportunity cuts both ways. As more and more women engage in the positive activities previously reserved for men, they engage in many of the negative ones as well. Why a jump specifically since 1999, though, and why white women vs. other groups? In any case, I do think it is useful to compare statistics for men and women in the various groups, and how (and hopefully why) they have changed over time.

FWIW, I rarely feel pressured to drink, wine or anything else, though I will willingly have a glass of wine with friends at home. Perhaps this is just a function of the groups I associate with the places I frequent (or don't).

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Gender gap in college enrollment | Pew Research Center

In 1994, 63% of recent female high school graduates and 61% of male recent high school graduates were enrolled in college in the fall following graduation. By 2012, the share of young women enrolled in college immediately after high school had increased to 71%, but it remained unchanged for young men at 61%.

Even so, the growing gender gap in college enrollment is not limited to Hispanic and black youth. In 1994, among high school graduates, 62% of young white men and 66% of young white women were enrolled in college immediately after graduation—a four percentage point gender gap. In 2012, that gap had grown to 10 percentage points as the share of young white women enrolled in college grew to 72% while the rate for men remained the same.

Seems rise in binge drinking can at least be correlated to the rise in more women in college.

As...

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/15/us/why-colleges-havent-stopped-binge-drinking.html

Binge drinking isn't just an issue of white women, it affects everyone and we cannot just hone in on one subset while ignoring others.

In order to stop or curtail binge drinking in white women, as opposed to other races and gender, I would have to see some proof that there reasonings for drinking has vastly different reasons than say, mens, African Americans, Hispanics, etc reasons for the same behavior.

As is, I don't see that. I see binge drinking as an issue that has been around for quite some time in college (rates have remained at 40%) and the rise of white women binge drinking is symptomatic of having more women enroll in college.

 

[grey_beard]

Nine charts that show how white women are drinking themselves to death - The Washington Post

In light of a certain thread where drinking was featured as a major issue, I thought this article was interesting. The article itself has 9 charts demonstrating the issue.



So, white educated women are drinking substantially more than even a few years ago, leading to increased deaths. Ignoring the death issue for this discussion, I wonder if anyone would like to share theories as to the sudden increase in heavy and binge drinking among educated white women.

Is it a byproduct of college binge drinking? Or an indication of increased stress? Or something else?

I vote a mixture of stress, angst, and frustration.

In the meantime,

 

[ceecee]

Gender gap in college enrollment | Pew Research Center



Seems rise in binge drinking can at least be correlated to the rise in more women in college.

As...

Why Colleges Haven't Stopped Binge Drinking - NYTimes.com

Binge drinking isn't just an issue of white women, it affects everyone and we cannot just hone in on one subset while ignoring others.

In order to stop or curtail binge drinking in white women, as opposed to other races and gender, I would have to see some proof that there reasonings for drinking has vastly different reasons than say, mens, African Americans, Hispanics, etc reasons for the same behavior.

As is, I don't see that. I see binge drinking as an issue that has been around for quite some time in college (rates have remained at 40%) and the rise of white women binge drinking is symptomatic of having more women enroll in college.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

It's not just the US. I recall reading this in Australia last year and was intrigued: OECD: Australia’s middle aged, educated women are binge drinkers Alcohol study: middle-aged women drink more often than daughters | Australia news | The Guardian

The UK has the same problem too: Harmful drinking among middle-class over-50s is a 'hidden phenomenon' | Society | The Guardian

A Swedish study also backs up the theory of this being a form of socially acceptable self-medication: Abstinence, occasional drinking and binge drinking in middle-aged women. The Women's Health in Lund Area (WHILA) Study. - PubMed - NCBI

There's some discussion of some of the reasons why here: New Women Alcoholics: 'Looking at Red Wine Like It's Chocolate' - ABC News

This is the sentence from that article that struck me in your quote.
"Unlike men, who tend to abuse alcohol in social settings, women "uncork the bottle at home alone" and self-medicate their anxiety and depression, she said."

This research is also addressing the difference between social and private drinking. In reading the thread I was wondering if the increase in drinking that results in 'drinking yourself to death' was primarily social or private drinking, and I was expecting that private drinking would be the more likely setting for taking it that far for middle aged women. In this way I'm not sure the connection with college social drinking and such would be as relevant. The motivation for these two settings can be very different, although once a person is comfortable drinking a lot in one setting, it can translate to the other. It is interesting that when we hear of someone being alcoholic many immediately picture someone crazy drunk at a wild party, rather than privately at home being too tired to deal with emotional pain, stress, and unhappiness, and so drinking enough to feel drunk. To the extent that women are privately drinking themselves to death does suggest a lack of happiness in society.

I don't drink that much, but when I do, it is at home after dinner. I have experienced drinking enough to get tipsy because of not wanting to think about something horrible. I usually don't drink at all in social settings. My experience is a small scale version of what this issue is talking about, so my main point is that someone who drinks excessively socially or who drink excessively in private, may not be the same people at all and the motivations can be polar opposite. This question needs to be determined before further assumptions are made about how this relates to society - both the cause and the effect.

 

[Lark]

I dont think that anyone white or other, women or other, should drink themselves to death, why the focus on white women?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Here is another thought about this demographic of women: middle aged, professional, middle class, etc. This is a difficult time in one's life because typically:

1. Parents are elderly, needing a lot of care, attention, monitoring, and money as they move towards dying.
2. Children are late teen/early 20's and so not entirely functional as adults, so they also need a lot of attention, money, there can be a lot of drama and concern, etc.
3. Marriage relationships can wane with less emotional support, more criticism, divorces happen now that the children aren't as young.
4. Your body changes, there is weight gain that won't go away, aches and pains, and a loss of youthful appearance, which can be exacerbated if a romantic partner is critical or has a wandering eye for women in their 20's.
5. Most work environments include someone in authority with psychological and emotional problems, and so being mistreated at work is a common occurrence.

So you can have a demographic of people who are required to give a lot to different kinds of people, required to fulfill many different needs, but who is giving back? The women in this demographic typically have to give more than they get emotionally, financially, time-wise, etc. If there is enough pain and stress in those above mentioned dynamics, then it is *very* easy to sit down with a bottle of wine and a box of chocolates to cope.

I really don't think this is about party girls getting too crazy. I think it is about society being unbalanced, most relationships being draining, and this demographic is required to stabilize a lot of it without having a way to get their needs met in return.