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  1. #71
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    it seems the less ept the more angry! It's ok if the parents are there and they appologize and such for the behavior, but when they finally appear and then yell at me for giving thier child a cold look and asking "where are your parents?" after they've grasped or run into me that's just not cool- they should expect things like that when they let thier children run freely. The grociery store is NOT a park
    I think it's probably your manner of handling things. It's like, even as adults, we might know we screwed up, but if someone brings it to our attention in an accusatory way, we go into defensive mode. I find that if you act like you're actually concerned about the kid himself, the parent scurries up and apologizes for bothering you. A lot of times, the parent's just trying to get their shopping done, and they don't realize right away that the kid has wandered off.

    What bothers me the most is when kids go RUNNING, chasing each other, through the aisles of a grocery store or the mall or even the halls at church, and parents don't say anything. There is no way that a parent can't know that that is annoying, not to mention dangerous, behavior.

  2. #72
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Here's a perfect example of blaming the system, but then I hope you realize that as a child of the Sixties, that's the way I was wired.

    Since we do live in a society which has become necessitated to dragging your children everywhere, (expensive/unreliable babysitters, time limits, consumer-oriented entertainment) if would be well for businesses to make their establishments as parent friendly as possible.

    I think this could help some of the situations which come to mind.

    People didn't used to take newborns into public. They rarely got babysitters and often just stayed home from adult functions to care for their children.

    This is unfeasible in current culture for a number of reasons.

    When I was a young mother there was no place to change a diaper except on the bathroom floor and many, many times I had to cut my shopping time short if a child had had more stimulation than he could handle.

    I often wished for short-term child care in shopping malls and advocated for the same in the interests of the merchants who would benefit from a mother being able to shop at a more leisurely pace. But I think the potential for lawsuits was daunting.

    I see our local mall now has a play area for children but no supervision and I've seen some pretty nasty fights among the little folks who are dumped their on their own.

    I've also seen an occasional grandma-type shopper resting nearby to intercede when the pecking order stuff starts.
    Last edited by Anja; 09-19-2008 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Spelling/typos
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #73
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Tallulah, the absolute worst shoppers are the senior citizens on social security check day. They use the super markets as social outings and block the aisles chatting merrily away, happy for a little cash to spend for treats and see their friends.

    Lord.

    And as senile as we all get if we live long enough, I doubt that they even recognize that not everyone is in the grocery store for a brief holiday!
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #74
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Damn. Face it. I just hate EVERBODY in my space!

    My priorities come first allada time. Heh.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #75
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    I hate snotty, ill-mannered brats. How kids behave really says more about the parents than the kid itself. Kids can be very cute etc, but there should be a fu**ing license to get one. :steam: And it should be strict, a rough personal estimate would indicate that about 70% of all the people out there should never EVER be allowed to put something to the world. Not to be a damn fascist or anything. But it's really insane how badly suited some people are to raise the poor kids Get a bloody pet, since that is what you seem to want when you get a kid!

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  6. #76
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Yeah, I know. It's unreal. Of course my experiences haven't been in public places. Mine have been with friends children, in-laws and neighbors.

    I am also curious why Jeffster would put up the rolf icon to the idea that people who cannot handle children shouldn't have them. It's already been established that Jeffster isn't the kind of parent being discussed. So why be defensive about the indefensible?

    Shouldn't parents be expected to teach their offspring the most basic boundary respect? What's wrong with saying if they can't they need to keep those children at home until peer pressure at school alone finally forces the child into becoming more cognizant of normal human behavior?
    I couldn't come up with a better response at the time, I was a bit...flummoxed? Maybe that's the word.

    I don't think couples can predict the future and know exactly how their kids will be and that they will be able to "handle" everything their kids do. It's not as cut and dried as you're making it, that's mostly what I was saying.

    And like Jennifer points out, there's different kinds of kids. I was re-reading some of "Please Understand Me II" and Keirsey, who has spent a career observing kids, makes some very valuable points when he discusses the difference between "cooperator" children and "utilitarian" children. The "cooperators" take less time to pick up manners, it doesn't mean they never misbehave but they respond to consequences more because either they don't want to be seen as bad (SJ) or they are emotionally hurt by punishments (NF.) Meanwhile, the "utilitarians" are slow to accept manners and rules of behavior unless they see a use for them. An NT can sometimes decide it's useful to go along with the rules in some cases, because it can benefit them to acquire results strategically. As an example, eat my vegetables because it results in getting dessert.

    But the SPs, as discussed in Alicia's freedom topic, want to fight EVERYTHING. The Introverts will fight much more quietly, but still fight and rebel. And the extroverts are most likely the ones bothering whatever in the store, because they are the hardest to get to cooperate.

    I'm not removing the responsibility from parents to teach rules and regulations, but the fact that you could make a statement about how your parents were able to control you (not sure if that's the word you used because I can't see that post while I'm typing this, but something like that) shows you're not considering the differences in children, and it's impossible to predict whether you're going to have a child who doesn't make battles, picks his battles, or battles EVERYTHING before you have kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Why do parents throw a fit when you ask the child who's pestering you where thier parents (occasionally out of sight) are?

    I wouldn't be half as annoyed if I wasn't considered rude by people for this
    Hey, here's one parent who doesn't consider you rude for doing that. If my son was messing with you and wouldn't quit, I'd have no problem with you kicking him in the nuts. I bet he wouldn't mess with you again.

    So, yeah, to sum up, some parents just suck, but some kids aren't so easy to control and you still gotta take them out in public sometimes. Pretty much what Jennifer said, but I felt the need to blab about it anyway.

    And heart, if kids are causing trouble in your home, I say you tell them to stop and if they don't, then remove them from your home. If the in-laws have a problem with it, tell them they can shove off too, because you don't have to put up with that mess. It's all well and good to say what parents should do, but sometimes they're not going to and you just have to act yourself.

    Anyway, I'm not lecturing anybody, just putting my thoughts out there. Please don't take it as me trying to say people's problems with kids aren't legitimate, because I believe they are. Personally, I take steps to not allow those situations in the first place, but then it might be easier for me because I don't have in-laws and kids don't tend to approach me in stores because I probably scare them and I keep moving constantly except when I'm in the checkout line.
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  7. #77
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Excellent post, Jeffster.

    (And I was one of those NT kids who was mostly compliant AFTER you explained to me why I was supposed to follow X rule.)

  8. #78
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    It's true that people are defensive when they mess up, and it's one of saddest things when parents can't admit it.

    I was at a cafe once when a woman at the counter let her 2-1/2 year old daughter walk into the patio, then head toward the street. When the kid started to leave the sidewalk, a MAN stopped the little girl from going into traffic. And what was the mother's response? "Please don't touch my daughter."

    How about "thank you so much for probably saving her life." She actually stood there arguing with the guy when he tried to explain he was afraid her daughter might get hurt.
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  9. #79
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Why do parents throw a fit when you ask the child who's pestering you where thier parents (occasionally out of sight) are?

    I wouldn't be half as annoyed if I wasn't considered rude by people for this
    Yes, that is an important part of the equation. That is wasn't so much that the children were stepping out of line, it was the parent's response to it being brought to their attention. Big difference there.

    My own experience has been with parents staring right at the child while they are doing it and they are just saying nothing. And it isn't always practical to exclude people from one's life just because they let their children run wild, but at the same time yes I do very much resent being put in the position of having to nudge the parents about basic boundary type stuff and that's what I am sounding off about. I fully realize, Jeffster, that I have to speak up, that's what I am venting about. I didn't have children for a reason, I don't want to have to parent other people's children. :steam:

  10. #80
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Kids are kids.

    You simply can't take one isolated incidence and say you know what goes on with some random kid, their parents' abilities, etc.. Too many variables.


    Their brains are different and growing and forming new connections, their sleep drastically affects their behaviour (imagine getting the energy to get through the day PLUS grow your body... if they get one bad night, it shows the next day), environmental factors, stress levels of interpersonals of grown-ups they live with who don't tell them things because they're too young...

    My sweetheart INFP brother, now 17 and the most perfect guy I could dream up as a brother, was a terror when he was 6 and on medication for an illness; the medication affected his behaviour. Literally, no joke, my dad had to teach me how to pin him down for my safety even though I was 5 years older.

    There's nothing wrong with respectfully telling a kid what's cool/not cool, but seriously... they don't grow up in vacuums. They have to grow somewhere, just like we all did.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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