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  1. #31
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledove View Post
    We agree to disagree.
    If only. :P Not many people want to agree on disagreements. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #32
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    One may or may not agree with the statement that one may or may not agree with this statement.

  3. #33
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    One may or may not agree with the statement that one may or may not agree with this statement.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #34
    Riva
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    We will all die one day?

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    We will all die one day?
    My mother earnestly does not believe that.

  6. #36
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I suppose we could pull out a cheesy descartes style quote: "All we know is that somewhere....somehow..... and in some form we exist."

    *EDIT* Oh yeah and things like being part of the imagination of something else or a dream comes under the heading of 'in some form' .
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #37
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    All men are mortal. Sacrates is a man. Therefore Socrates is mortal.
    P-->Q
    P
    ______
    Q



    Don't you love logic?

    (Maybe people who don't use logic wouldn't agree...)
    This is incorrectly formulated. In propositional logic the statement would be of the form P,Q ⊨ R ; which isn't semantically interesting. The way it is formulated, it reads as something like 'if Socrates is a man then Socrates is mortal, Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is mortal', which doesn't say anything about other men.

    In order to preserve the expressive power of the statement, you'd have to switch to first-order predicate logic:
    ∀x(Px→Qx),Pa ⊨ Qa

  8. #38
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    This is incorrectly formulated. In propositional logic the statement would be of the form P,Q ⊨ R ; which isn't semantically interesting. The way it is formulated, it reads as something like 'if Socrates is a man then Socrates is mortal, Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is mortal', which doesn't say anything about other men.

    In order to preserve the expressive power of the statement, you'd have to switch to first-order predicate logic:
    ∀x(Px→Qx),Pa ⊨ Qa
    Yes, I thought of that. I was just going for the simple form of Socrates is a mortal.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    We will all die one day?
    Unless a galactic super civilization invades earth and takes us into the negative matter of the universe, immortal in a higher dimension at a spiritual level.

  10. #40
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    To answer this question one would have to specify what constitutes a non-agreement - does it have to be an active act of disagreement, or does lack of agreement suffice. In the latter case the answer is clearly no, as is immediately apparent from cases of people in vegetative states for example. In the former case the question shifts to a question not just about agreement, but also one of knowledge, i.e. if you formulate knowledge as a true justified belief and you hold that such a belief exists then it seems to follow that there are things that everyone with sufficient data and mental capacity would necessarily agree on, but such a formulation is in itself quite problematic as has been shown by Gettier, Russell and Wittgenstein among others and it does seem to lead to a number of psychological and metaphysical assumptions that may not be so obvious.

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