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  1. #61
    I'm not Trunks
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    I feel ashamed if I don't know about something, less knowledge and incompetence in certain things.

  2. #62
    I'm not Trunks
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Shame is a useless waste of emotion. If actions were so negative, remorse, restitution and self-forgiveness are better uses of time and energy.
    At certain degree, it helps for self improvement.

  3. #63
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunks View Post
    At certain degree, it helps for self improvement.
    Only on a very limited scope. If it takes shame to make people want to continue growing, then they're a write-off anyways.

  4. #64
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Only on a very limited scope. If it takes shame to make people want to continue growing, then they're a write-off anyways.
    I don't see how the scope is that limited. If a person thinks they don't need to grow in a certain way, they'll tend not to question their actions in that limited scope. But if something creates shame in that scope, it causes dissonance that opens up the person's basic assumptions for questioning.

    No one leaves all of their assumptions up for question. Sometimes it takes external forces to change that. Without the capacity for shame, the external forces have fewer effects.

    People want to live up to their ideals. When they fall short, they feel something negative and attempt to change themselves OR they change their ideals. Without shame, changing ideals to match actions is the path of least resistance. With shame, people are much more likely to change their actions.

  5. #65
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I don't see how the scope is that limited. If a person thinks they don't need to grow in a certain way, they'll tend not to question their actions in that limited scope. But if something creates shame in that scope, it causes dissonance that opens up the person's basic assumptions for questioning.

    No one leaves all of their assumptions up for question. Sometimes it takes external forces to change that. Without the capacity for shame, the external forces have fewer effects.

    People want to live up to their ideals. When they fall short, they feel something negative and attempt to change themselves OR they change their ideals. Without shame, changing ideals to match actions is the path of least resistance. With shame, people are much more likely to change their actions.
    This is the glaring difference between Fe and Fi. Fe needs external motivation and Fi motivates from within.

    That said, what's up with ENFPs (Fi-aux), where they morph to appeal and attract? *scratches head in puzzlement*

  6. #66
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    This is the glaring difference between Fe and Fi. Fe needs external motivation and Fi motivates from within.

    That said, what's up with ENFPs (Fi-aux), where they morph to appeal and attract? *scratches head in puzzlement*
    But Feeling isn't emotion. Feeling is limited to the conscious side of value judgments. The biases involved and underlying emotions are outside of the realm of Feeling.

    It's a mistake to say that Fi users aren't emotionally affected by external factors.

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