[Traditional Enneagram] Most sadistic types

[á´…eparted]

That's the ones I'd choose too, also sx 4 if we go by subtype descriptions (and from knowing some sx 4s I think it can be accurate, but not to such extreme)

Although I'd also think 3s can be like that too in competitive way, wanting to be the best and make competition suffer from shame and envy.

At the end of the day it's just statistics. Some types are more likely to be sadistic than others, and the ones that are will be slightly different in how it goes. As I said earlier, 8's seem to be the most likely to be so and the way'd they'd do it is by effectively "bathing in the tears of their enemies" and basically gaining significant enjoyment from seeing the pain they are causing or witnessing. Where as to use my type as an example, 1's who are sadistic would make sure to hold someone to every letter of the law with no wiggle room, ignoring the spirit of law all together, and gaining enjoyment from someone getting subjected to these iron systems and being unable to stop it.

I honestly don't think 3's are very likely to be sadistic. They care much more about being the best, not so much about others who are below them.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It often surprises me how much the term "sadism" is equalized with extroversion or loudness. It is true that 8 is perhaps the most likely type to kill you on spot, however for me that is not trully the definition of real sadism.
In my opinion sadism involves elements that are more subtle, like: needles, impovised operation rooms, dark basements, long drowning sessions, emotional detachment, restraints and etc. Therefore 8s do not really fit into the profile and as a matter of fact they are probably the most likely to be the first victim since they are a ... challange.

INTJ humor

 

[miss fortune]

It is annoying and it's almost the first thing people comment on about 8's. On the other hand, it's very obvious and it's very in your face. It isn't some covert, manipulative, behind your back sort of thing. My suggestion is always not to fuck with a person and their job, their family, their property. I know of no healthy 8 that would harm an innocent but if you have it coming and did something to invoke their wrath - sucks to be you.

a healthy 8 is like a well treated, socialized and trained Rottweiler

 

[evilrubberduckie]

Unhealthy "heart" types are the most sadistic

 

[Captain_Invincible]

I just wanted to subscribe to this thread.

Because I think it is interesting to think of, how an ENTJ-8 would compare to an ESTP-8 (7w8) or ESFP-8 (7w8) or even an ESTJ-8 (9w8) would go about their sadistic way. What kind of gain they are trying to get, what the motive is behind it for each. I'm sure there is a fine line, but maybe too small to be noticeable between the types.

*cough*

 

[EcK]

a healthy 8 is like a well treated, socialized and trained Rottweiler

What about 7w8?
(looks innocent)

 

[miss fortune]

What about 7w8?
(looks innocent)

rottweiler puppy!

 

[EcK]

rottweiler puppy!

I like how he's(she?) ever so slightly foaming at the mouth
yeah I think that works for me

What d'you think?

 

[miss fortune]

I like how he's(she?) ever so slightly foaming at the mouth
yeah I think that works for me

What d'you think?

so adorably playful that you almost forget that puppy bites can really hurt!

 

[Coriolis]

I think that would need to come from within each individual first.

That would leave, in many cases, the equivalent of the fox guarding the chicken coop.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

That would leave, in many cases, the equivalent of the fox guarding the chicken coop.

Regarding the justice vs. mercy debate, it often seems to me that "justice" (as a concept based on a formal legal system, rules, procedures, etc., in which a crime is identified and a punishment executed) focuses on the first order effect of a violation occurring and a punishment given.

Mercy draws into the question the idea of punishment. When you learn the bigger picture about how a crime has come about, there tends to be more focus on approaching the problem like an illness. It results from illness in the individual and their environment. If you look at all the layers that go into the problem and how to solve it at its core, there is more reason for something like "mercy".

Although, I don't mean mercy like a spouse taking another beating rather than leaving an angry partner, but focusing on why the partner is sick, finding treatment instead of punishment. To be able to ensure treatment for the cruel person instead of killing or wounding them could be the more reasoned course, and some could argue it is "mercy" and perhaps others a type of "justice". To the extent that mercy solves violations with treatment that works instead of punishment, then it can be argued as more effective than "justice". It an also be argued that the two concepts can align for the best result.

Edit:
To state it more directly:

if "mercy" = treatment and "justice" = punishment, then you can make a reasoned case in favor of mercy as being more effective in solving the problem.

If "mercy" = no accountability and "justice" = accountability, then it's rather difficult to make the case for mercy.

It comes down to how words are being defined, and the question of "punishment" itself. Do we inflict harm to correct and punish harm done?

 

[Coriolis]

Regarding the justice vs. mercy debate, it often seems to me that "justice" (as a concept based on a formal legal system, rules, procedures, etc., in which a crime is identified and a punishment executed) focuses on the first order effect of a violation occurring and a punishment given.

Mercy draws into the question the idea of punishment. When you learn the bigger picture about how a crime has come about, there tends to be more focus on approaching the problem like an illness. It results from illness in the individual and their environment. If you look at all the layers that go into the problem and how to solve it at its core, there is more reason for something like "mercy".

Although, I don't mean mercy like a spouse taking another beating rather than leaving an angry partner, but focusing on why the partner is sick, finding treatment instead of punishment. To be able to ensure treatment for the cruel person instead of killing or wounding them could be the more reasoned course, and some could argue it is "mercy" and perhaps others a type of "justice". To the extent that mercy solves violations with treatment that works instead of punishment, then it can be argued as more effective than "justice". It an also be argued that the two concepts can align for the best result.

Edit:
To state it more directly:

if "mercy" = treatment and "justice" = punishment, then you can make a reasoned case in favor of mercy as being more effective in solving the problem.

If "mercy" = no accountability and "justice" = accountability, then it's rather difficult to make the case for mercy.

It comes down to how words are being defined, and the question of "punishment" itself. Do we inflict harm to correct and punish harm done?

Both sets of definitions are hopelessly simplistic. I would say:

justice = ensuring that everyone is treated fairly
mercy = making exceptions to the standard of fairness in an effort to be kind

In this sense, many punishments are unjust, and sometimes forgoing punishment is not merciful. It may seem kind in the moment, but not be best in the long run. Something that is unreasonable in my mind is inherently unjust. Many times mercy is invoked to break a chain of injustices. The way the system is now, that is often the only way to accomplish this. Better, however, to have addressed the earlier injustices so the later ones never came to pass.

Les Miserables has good examples of this. One might say it was unjust to imprison Jean Valjean just for stealing to feed his family. In a just system, though, expecting some recompense from a thief is the right thing to do. The original injustice was that Valjean and his family were unable to support themselves by lawful means. So, how do we keep Valjean from spending years in prison? In a system that relies on mercy, the judge must make an exception for him due to his motivation for stealing. In a system that relies on justice, he has no need to steal in the first place.

Perhaps this is why issues related to poverty, bigotry, education, fair labor practices, etc. are often grouped under the heading "social justice" rather than "social mercy".

 

[Virtual ghost]

Regarding the justice vs. mercy debate, it often seems to me that "justice" (as a concept based on a formal legal system, rules, procedures, etc., in which a crime is identified and a punishment executed) focuses on the first order effect of a violation occurring and a punishment given.

Mercy draws into the question the idea of punishment. When you learn the bigger picture about how a crime has come about, there tends to be more focus on approaching the problem like an illness. It results from illness in the individual and their environment. If you look at all the layers that go into the problem and how to solve it at its core, there is more reason for something like "mercy".

Although, I don't mean mercy like a spouse taking another beating rather than leaving an angry partner, but focusing on why the partner is sick, finding treatment instead of punishment. To be able to ensure treatment for the cruel person instead of killing or wounding them could be the more reasoned course, and some could argue it is "mercy" and perhaps others a type of "justice". To the extent that mercy solves violations with treatment that works instead of punishment, then it can be argued as more effective than "justice". It an also be argued that the two concepts can align for the best result.

Edit:
To state it more directly:

if "mercy" = treatment and "justice" = punishment, then you can make a reasoned case in favor of mercy as being more effective in solving the problem.

If "mercy" = no accountability and "justice" = accountability, then it's rather difficult to make the case for mercy.

It comes down to how words are being defined, and the question of "punishment" itself. Do we inflict harm to correct and punish harm done?

To continue my comment to you from another thread.

I think that all of this is more of a US problem than an genuine problem. The problem is that in your country Justice is equalized with execution is federal prison, what is often hardly a real justice. Especially since there is a number of cases where in the end it turned that the person was probably innocent. The core problem of what you are saying is that there is a presumption that justice equals violence and this is where I disagree. Not to mention that in my county cops do not shoot people unless they have a very very good reason to do that and they do not search or arrest random people on the streets. Over here when cops shoot someone that is automatically country wide first news since on the scale of the whole county that happens maybe few times a year. (and death penalty does not exist in the law)



On more personal side I have always seen that question as how much determined approach you will make towards a problem. Since that always struck me as the core idea behind the question, especially since justice and mercy are actually pretty subjective terms.

 

[Pinker85]

I don't know but when I catch my cat licking himself and his tongue gets stuck outside his mouth it makes me very happy ...

 

[boomslang]

It is annoying and it's almost the first thing people comment on about 8's. On the other hand, it's very obvious and it's very in your face. It isn't some covert, manipulative, behind your back sort of thing. My suggestion is always not to fuck with a person and their job, their family, their property. I know of no healthy 8 that would harm an innocent but if you have it coming and did something to invoke their wrath - sucks to be you.

Spot on.

I wouldn't call 8s cruel so much as potentially vicious. I would add that people should be especially wary of doing the bolded stuff to 8w9s, they don't let their anger out anywhere near as much as the 8w7s. It will not end well, even if it seems like they won't/can't do anything to you.

 

[Ribonuke]

Lots of people would say ENTJ; while it's certainly possible, I always thought ENTJs were too busy wanting to make actual progress on their goals to be truly sadistic.

I vollunteer xSTPs as being capable of being the most sadistic; we know that growth often comes through suffering, and in order to make others grow, we must put them through challenges that encourage them to adapt and survive. After all, without predators...who's there to keep the herd from being overpopulated?

Moreover, we're one of the few types that would take the least offense; the scarier the better.

 

[chubber]

Lots of people would say ENTJ; while it's certainly possible, I always thought ENTJs were too busy wanting to make actual progress on their goals to be truly sadistic.

I vollunteer xSTPs as being capable of being the most sadistic; we know that growth often comes through suffering, and in order to make others grow, we must put them through challenges that encourage them to adapt and survive. After all, without predators...who's there to keep the herd from being overpopulated?

Moreover, we're one of the few types that would take the least offense; the scarier the better.

When you say ISTP 7w8, people that like to conquer others?

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

That depends what people call "sadistic"...

Some days ago an INTJ accused me of being "sadistic" just because I did not agree with him and told him so in my own way (which means being direct).

:whew:

When people can't accept to be frustrated it often happens that they'll treat you unfairly of "sadistic, egoistical, mean, boring, such a bitch...etc"

What types are those "sadictic heroes" ?

 

[chubber]

That depends what people call "sadistic"...

Some days ago an INTJ accused me of being "sadistic" just because I did not agree with him and told him so in my own way (which means being direct).

:whew:

When people can't accept to be frustrated it often happens that they'll treat you unfairly of "sadistic, egoistical, mean, boring, such a bitch...etc"

What types are those "sadictic heroes" ?

Sounds like a super INTJ, need to meet that one! Can we get him on here?

 

[Ribonuke]

When you say ISTP 7w8, people that like to conquer others?

If you mean this type/enneatype being the most likely to be sadistic, then yes, I agree with you. Or, perhaps, 8w7, since from what I understand it's about getting off on all the different ways of having power.

I'm one of those weird 478's if you believe in tritype, so I can definitely relate to this.