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  1. #31

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    First of all I don't believe that we're born with any kind of attitudes. I think our attitudes are mixture of DNA and outer influences, therefore this theory doesn't speak to me on a personal manner.
    Although it's an interesting reading and based on what I understood I was the active child and my mother was a responsive parent . She always tolerates and supports my needs and ideas while giving me as much freedom as she can. She's never forced me to do anything against my will and she is always sensitive personal in her approach.

    In my experience the problem is, that such a child will expect that everyone will tolerate him and give him such a freedom as his parent did, but it's not always true. There are rules you have to obey in real world and not everyone will treat you like you're the only one in this world. So the real life can give you a hard slap in your face.

    Also while I didn't experience indifference from my mother. I experienced the absence of my father which can have negative influence on a psyche too. Even though I didn't experience ignoring of my emotional needs, or lack of support from my family I experienced it as very young child at school from my own peers. There're many influences that has to be counted when we want to study the development of a child.

  2. #32
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    I was definetely an active child, and the parent responsible for raising me is responsive, which corresponds to my type. But the developmental path wasn't like it's described there at all. I was hardly a charming and cheerful child, more like intense, hyperactive, angry and sullen, which sounds more like an 8, 6 or 4.

  3. #33
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Oh Riva what am I to do here? Tell you I was an Active child with Responsive parents?

    The challenge I always come up against with this system... is I was an equally Active and Responsive child being raised by equally Active and Responsive parents... is there an app for that?

    What I can say is my Mom was manipulating an image of not being an Active parent...but solely Responsive for the world to look upon and see... which I'm sure had its impact... but in the end I don't know what truly accounts for my 7ness. In many ways I think 7 is where I'd end up regardless. My parents always say I was a freakishly happy baby. Like they'd just look at me and think wth? So idk.

  4. #34
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Oh Riva what am I to do here? Tell you I was an Active child with Responsive parents?

    The challenge I always come up against with this system... is I was an equally Active and Responsive child being raised by equally Active and Responsive parents... is there an app for that?

    What I can say is my Mom was manipulating an image of not being an Active parent...but solely Responsive for the world to look upon and see... which I'm sure had its impact... but in the end I don't know what truly accounts for my 7ness. In many ways I think 7 is where I'd end up regardless. My parents always say I was a freakishly happy baby. Like they'd just look at me and think wth? So idk.
    same. i think i was a 7 before any real 'nuture' got into me. i was a very smiley and happy baby. i hear stories of getting gifts for Christmas and my birthday as a toddler, and being *so* ecstatic about getting the most mundane presents. i even used to rave about the wrapping paper. i very much feel like i've always been a 'core' 7.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  5. #35
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    same. i think i was a 7 before any real 'nuture' got into me. i was a very smiley and happy baby. i hear stories of getting gifts for Christmas and my birthday as a toddler, and being *so* ecstatic about getting the most mundane presents. i even used to rave about the wrapping paper. i very much feel like i've always been a 'core' 7.
    haha...I love this story I can just picture it. And I like what you say about 'nature vs nurture.' I guess my parents asked the doctors about the fact I never cried because they thought that was abnormal haha.

    I think another thing that needs to be considered is how a child's nature causes the parents to respond to them along with other things like sibling/family dynamics and life events. Right on the heals of their happiest baby came my parents most challenging child...my INFJ sister who was so sensitive and reactive to everything I was basically left to my own devices...she consumed so much attention and special care. In this way...my Disneyland and magical love for wrapping paper was never challenged but set to stone.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Although I was not invited, I'll weigh in:

    I don't buy the childhood scenario spiel.

    When I was typed at 4, at least it made sense for me to think peer ostracism had something to do with why I felt like such a socially inept misfit who was inherently so different from others that I was to be rejected and mocked no matter where I went. It had little to do with my upbringing, but at least something happened in childhood that formed me. Not so now that I'm not a 4.

    Frankly, there is no reason for me to be what I am; if anything, I should be a positive outlook type. I was raised by two 9s who emphasized love, sappiness, and ignoring all problems. I cannot do this.

    The theory in the OP would put me at 4 or 7--I was definitely an "active" child, and my mom was Responsive-to-Neutral (shifting to neutral as time went on). My father figure was irrelevant to the equation.

    I hope someone else can get something out of it, but it just doesn't work for me, and I've given it a lot of thought.

  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    7's correct, happened that way. Except for the fact that I would never manipulate people
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Active child vs. Active parent
    This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 8.

    The child and parent experience open conflicts on a regular basis. They both have different agendas and oppose each other, thus giving rise to power struggles and explosive arguments. The Active parent is impatient and intolerant of the child's rebellious nature and tries to impose his will in an authoritarian fashion. The Active child, on the other hand, becomes aggressive, argumentative and persistent in getting his own way. The relationship becomes a sort of battlefield, which is how the child will later perceive the world around him (type 8).

    Such a childhood scenario encourages the child to develop a keen eye for spotting other people's weaknesses and a thirst for imposing their will in an overly aggressive fashion. They learn to be assertive, strong and deny their fears and feelings of intimidation. These are the traits they needed to have in order to stand up to their domineering parents and still keep their own Active inborn approach.

    Active child vs. Responsive parent
    This scenario is thought to produce Enneagram type 7

    The demands and concerns of the Active child are usually received with benevolence and a supportive, encouraging attitude. This creates a tolerant environment in which the child can express himself openly and receive attention without much effort from his part. The Active child becomes self-confident, carefree and expects his interactions to be positive and favorable to his needs. The Responsive parent is sympathetic and loving, thus stimulating the child's playful, self-expressive side and giving him a good deal of personal freedom.

    This childhood scenario promotes a cheerful, optimistic type who knows how to charm and manipulate others into easily getting his way. Entertaining and expressive, such a child may later expect instant gratification for all his needs and desires and avoid investing time and effort into long-term goals.
    I seem to fit the above, being 7w8.

    I was definitely an active child, and my INFP mother was a very responsive parent (who interacted with me more than my ESTJ father, during my formative years). My ESTJ father was a mix between Active parent and Responsive parent, but moreso leaning towards Active. It is like a hair-trigger for us to get into arguments/conflicts. Resisting power dynamics, rebelling against his authoritative nature.

    Interesting food for thought.

  9. #39
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    What about people with two parents? By this scenario I should have been a 1... active parent responsive child...
    Though I would say my mom was more active/responsive and I was more neutral/responsive, and my grandmother was just plain responsive, so I guess we all met in the middle here. I think I started a more friendly/smiley yet shy and emotional kid and the parenting styles toughened me up a bit/ made me a little less timid... Lots of love though I tended to shy away/circumvent my mothers style a lot and stick with what my grandmother said
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  10. #40
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    I've read this before. Unfortunately I don't agree with the law of 4. Though I do think they're on the right track. I had an authoritative parent and a neutral parent. I personally was more quiet and shy and not active or outgoing.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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