User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 43

  1. #1
    Fair and Square Flatlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    iNtj
    Enneagram
    582 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    124

    Default Relation of wings to core

    How do you relate to your wings?

    I was thinking the other day along these lines, and found that I was curiously repelled by the psychology, just the idea, of both of my wings (I'm a core 5), even more so for the 4 than the 6, though I have enjoyed acquaintence with individuals of both cores. I scorn the 4 idea of attaching oneself to one's emotions and having a psychology based in envy, and I ward strongly against the kind of existential doubt that informs the 6, instead confident in the understanding I have gathered and holding it to a logical scale of probability when necessary. On the other hand, I can see intellectually/logically where each of these forces goes toward creating the core: when you combine envy and doubt, you get, quite naturally, avarice. And I can see both wings in my behavior.

    Do you share this kind of relation to the wings around you? If not, how do they act within your psychology?

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,655

    Default

    Despite loving a 3 very very much and admiring their strength and tenacity, I cannot stand the idea of being a 3 myself. I refuse to care about the rat race that the world forces on us..or so I tell myself

    I admire 5s greatly,and am more open to their influence as I enjoy gathering knowledge and educating myself in various fields, but the idea of being *that* emotionally cut off and aloof scares the living day lights out of me. I also..find it amusing when 5s rationalise everything and cannot identify their own emotional undercurrents which are clearly influencing them

    So yes..I relate to what you are saying. And yes, I very much do not relate to my wings in a way.

    But Ive realised over the years that I am influenced by them, very much so. I do have some need to compete and to put myself out there. And i have a very big need to understand the world and research the heck out of it. And yes, I identify with the need to impress others the way 3s do and the fear of facing the world unprepared that 5s experience.


    - With love, from your 4 neighbour
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”
    Likes Fay liked this post

  3. #3
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LSI Se
    Posts
    645

    Default

    8s are known to feel like the world is not going to save them and everyone is out for themselves, so they have to take care of themselves and protect the innocent, and take matters into their own hands, realistically, to avoid being overpowered by cruel outside forces who don't care. This leads to a lot of emphasis on pragmatism.

    9s get rid of unpleasantry by disassociating (psycho-spiritual laziness); 7s do it by avoiding being critical towards themselves (narcissism). I explicitly find both lines of thinking to be anti-pragmatic. When I have a problem I face it head-on, and one of the things I do automatically is to fish out my own weaknesses, to figure out where I went wrong and how to fix it.

    While I get along well with some 9s and 7s, 9-like or 7-like thinking within myself is anathema to me: anti-pragmatic, working against my goal-focus. I don't find most of the enneatypes to be directly 'against' the way I think as with those two, even though if I'm honest, I can see shades of both in myself.

    I can be psycho-spiritually lazy in the sense of doing, or reacting, without thinking. Doing without thinking is a defense against sloth, but ironically, also lazy in its own rite. Also, sadism is rooted in denial of shame through shaming the other. I've never had any conscious awareness of shame. If shame is part of human nature then certainly, I've lived with a great deal of denial (a problem for type 8), and this is also psycho-spiritually lazy - because I have not felt driven to have shame or to find it within myself. I experience shame in the carnal sense: when I'm emotionally hurt or physically sick, I'm driven to hide in my room by myself, like a cat. I don't want to be seen (or overpowered) when I'm weak. Other than that, I feel shameless, like I have nothing to hide. When other people tell me of their shame, I don't relate, but I try to hear them out and help them move past it. If someone tries to shame me, it's an utter failure and gets turned around on them instantly - it's their problem. (There's my sadism.) This must be some combination of spiritual laziness and narcissism?

    I'll gladly brag about the things I consider assets or accomplishments, but I'm equally open about the sides of me that I consider faults or failures. It's important to me to be aware of my assets and faults so that I can approach my goals realistically. Awareness of my assets gives me confidence and makes me feel I have the stuff to achieve what I want (therefore, contributes to my drive), and awareness of my faults helps me to avoid being vulnerable or putting myself in a bad position.

    I'm naturally VERY aware of my flaws as well as my assets, (unlike 7 who would rather not see their flaws), and I don't tend to think I'm inherently better than anyone; it is neither my inclination, nor is it realistic. But I'd say that pragmatism and 'realism' or , the type of awareness: "I'm good at this, but terrible at that" is a defense against narcissism, too. At the same time, I am apt to overestimate myself from time to time, so that narcissistic bent is definitely there.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  4. #4
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
    How do you relate to your wings?

    I was thinking the other day along these lines, and found that I was curiously repelled by the psychology, just the idea, of both of my wings (I'm a core 5), even more so for the 4 than the 6, though I have enjoyed acquaintence with individuals of both cores. I scorn the 4 idea of attaching oneself to one's emotions and having a psychology based in envy, and I ward strongly against the kind of existential doubt that informs the 6, instead confident in the understanding I have gathered and holding it to a logical scale of probability when necessary. On the other hand, I can see intellectually/logically where each of these forces goes toward creating the core: when you combine envy and doubt, you get, quite naturally, avarice. And I can see both wings in my behavior.

    Do you share this kind of relation to the wings around you? If not, how do they act within your psychology?
    Phenomenal prompt.

    I have to say, I'm actually pretty impressed with some of the enneagram discussion that's been taking place recently.

    For a while now the board has seemed to be moving more towards enneagram than MBTI.

    And some of these newer members are creating some really good threads.

    Anyway, enough metaing.

    ***

    I do actually get pretty sickened by my wings (but, frankly, I can feel that way about all the enneatypes, when unhealthy [which is how they tend to be described most often, due to the oft-pathological roots of much enneagram thinking]).

    But, that being said, I probably sympathize more with 6s, as that is my type, than with 5s and 7s.

    The certainty you describe to me just seems full of shit. You don't seem objective. Frankly, I think 6s are the most objective of all types (in terms of what they aim for -- when they start getting spun up, well, that can certainly be a different story). In Molina's system, the head center is the "Systemic" center (the heart/image center is the "Extrinsic" center, and the gut/instinctual center is the "Intrinsic" center), and, within each center, one type manifests the Intrinsic, one type the Systemic, and one type the Extrinsic. In the Systemic center, 5s manifest the intrinsic, 6s the systemic, and 7s the extrinsic.

    As such, 5s are 5SI, 6s are 6SS, and 7s are 7SE. Basically, 5s are in the Systemic center, but they kinda go inwards, and put importance on their own intrinsic valuations of things. To me, as a 6SS (a purely systemic thinker), their convictions just seem like bullshit, much like the 1IS. Why the fuck should I care what it is that your gut tells you? Is your gut completely infallible? Does your gut know all? No. And, as such, I think 5s often display a false confidence. They might feel confident, but, imo, they don't actually deserve to be (which is not to say that no 5 deserves to be confident in their convictions, because, well, I think some are actually rightly confident [though they are greatly outweighed by those who are wrongly confident]). Essentially, my conflict with them is that they are not Systemic enough. They trust their own intrinsic (i.e., gut) valuation of things too much.

    7SEs, on the other hand, are just too extroverted. I can find them very enjoyable for a while, or just on a temporary/shallow basis, but the whole running from their internal selves (i.e., lack of intrinsic capacity [hence, they need to integrate to 5SI]) is so obvious and pathetic. I really can't stand people so lacking in self-awareness and/or who won't/don't deal with their problems.

    6SSs, I mean, they can be annoying as shit, but I guess I feel more for them, cuz I am one, and I empathize, and I'm just like, "Man, this person's just nervous/anxious about shit."

  5. #5
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    8w7. I relate my 7 wing to tertiary Se. It's an alternate coping strategy of break out, impulsivity and extroversion. Relax and have some fun without judgment.

  6. #6
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    748 sx/so
    Posts
    1,489

    Default


  7. #7
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    3s come off as mindless preps and 5s impact the world about as much as a floating spec would damage a heavily fortified bunker. From a detached perspective, 4s are basically just the original hipsters, and as such sometimes don't have that much to actually say about their subjects of interests, besides "I was more innovative than you pshah".

    I find it hard to be as conservative (as far as resources, time, etc is concerned) as a 5; they tend to be fairly steady and choosy about how they want to present themselves. However, there remains that hipster attitude, which, arguably, may be the true testament to that particular subculture. 5s are more elusive in certain ways, like I am.

    I find it even harder to be as transparent as a 3. Sure, I use an "image oriented" approach, but the very things I see as my misgivings are what allow me to ignore what others may think of me in a situation where I might interact with a foreign group of people. My idealized "self" seems to be more relevant to who I am than a 3, which permits a sort of universal, egalitarian procedure, as if I'd rather the entire world hate me than just a local group.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    I wanted to respond to this since I know the source of this thread, haha. But I'm different to Flatlander because I have a very strong attraction to 4 cores, especially sp first types. I don't tend to jive so well with 6s in contrast though, although phobic types are better than counterphobic. I do see both wing influence in me but it is clear that 4 is superior or I wouldn't type it as my wing.

    But yes, I like 4s very much on average and I tend to find their overall way of being strangely mysterious and attractive. Their emotional volatile vulnerability creates a strong sense of something that I need to protect for some reason. Of course, this doesn't apply to all 4s but I do not feel as strongly naturally aversed towards 4s as I do 6s. It's also interesting to note here that Flatlander types without any wing, I type with wing 4. I tend to thus also strongly identify with 4s as I see my suffering in them. I guess parhaps part why I feel the need to protect 4s because by doing so I also protect myself. How 8-like?

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  9. #9
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I wanted to respond to this since I know the source of this thread, haha. But I'm different to Flatlander because I have a very strong attraction to 4 cores, especially sp first types. I don't tend to jive so well with 6s in contrast though, although phobic types are better than counterphobic. I do see both wing influence in me but it is clear that 4 is superior or I wouldn't type it as my wing.

    But yes, I like 4s very much on average and I tend to find their overall way of being strangely mysterious and attractive. Their emotional volatile vulnerability creates a strong sense of something that I need to protect for some reason. Of course, this doesn't apply to all 4s but I do not feel as strongly naturally aversed towards 4s as I do 6s. It's also interesting to note here that Flatlander types without any wing, I type with wing 4. I tend to thus also strongly identify with 4s as I see my suffering in them. I guess parhaps part why I feel the need to protect 4s because by doing so I also protect myself. How 8-like?
    Are you people PersonalityCafe refugees or something?

    Also: could you expand on what you don't like about counterphobic 6s, and why you feel an aversion towards 6s in general?

  10. #10
    Fair and Square Flatlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    iNtj
    Enneagram
    582 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Are you people PersonalityCafe refugees or something?
    A few of us are. PerC is too full of drama.

Similar Threads

  1. relation of face shape and personality
    By GirlAmerica in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 10-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  2. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-30-2008, 08:38 PM
  3. [INTP] INTP 2 INTP (possibly of use to others)
    By Xander in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 04-16-2008, 11:26 AM
  4. On a scale of 1 to 10
    By swordpath in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 01-27-2008, 03:41 PM
  5. What type of results to you aim for?
    By ygolo in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-19-2007, 08:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO