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Why is Star Trek: Voyager regarded poorly by so many trekkies?

Was Star Trek Voyager Good?

  • It was total shit and any trace of it should be stranded in the Delta quadrant

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    11

Doctor Anaximander

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I realize it's not Deep Space Nine or The Next Generation, but I enjoyed Voyager for what it was. One of my friends on Facebook said it's good if you approach it like you're watching a Star Trek sitcom. I wish I had come up with that statement, but I cannot take credit for it.

For what it's worth, it was an entertaining show with some flaws, but I would hardly call the other Trek series flawless, and at least it isn't Enterprise (although this show was coming into its own and would probably be more highly regarded had it continued).

Voyager was rather bland and lacked direction during the first 2 seasons, but the same can be argued for TNG (Shades of Grey, anyone?) and DS9.

Thoughts?
 

Totenkindly

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I never made it through two seasons of Voyager, I think I only watched the first. And yeah, I felt like it was TNG but watered down even more -- all the stuff I hated about TNG exemplified. "Boy Scouts in Space" and all that.... I think I had just really burned out on the Brannon Braga approach to scifi TV by then. [I tried to watch Terra Nova when it was out, a few years back, and found myself frustrated by the SOS that annoyed me in Trek.]

i thought Tom Paris was a cool idea, but he was diluted somehow. I needed more grit.

I did read that there were a few really good episodes, and I think i watched one last year, but I don't remember much about it or what it was called anymore. I didn't much take to Janeway either. Everyone felt so bland to me.
 

BadOctopus

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What Jen said. Mostly bland, or just plain annoying characters. Chakotay was a talking plank of wood, B'Elanna was a bad-tempered grouch, Harry Kim was basically a non-entity, and Neelix served no purpose other than to be a source of constant irritation. Even Tom Paris, who could have been interesting, ended up being as bland as everyone else.

The only characters who had any real personality were Janeway, Seven, and the Doctor. The best episodes usually focused on one of those three. Tuvok wasn't too bad, I guess. I liked that he was a well-balanced Vulcan who took pride in his culture, unlike Spock, who struggled constantly with his identity.

Also, what frustrated me about Voyager was the over-use of the Reset Button. Every week something huge would happen. Somebody would suffer some trauma or the ship would be crippled by some hostile aliens, and then the next week, everything would be back to normal. It was hard to care about happened to these people, because nothing that happened to them ever had any repercussions. It was just... lazy writing.

TNG had the same problem, but it wasn't quite as rampant. That's why DS9 is my favorite. Each character grew and evolved over the course of the show. Even characters I couldn't stand at first eventually grew on me, because they became better people by the end. Most of the characters on Voyager were just cardboard cutouts of people.

That being said, Seven and the Doc were the cream of the crop. They're actually two of my favorite Star Trek characters ever.
 

Totenkindly

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It's kind of interesting that each series had 1-3 characters that seemed to excel / stand out, having interesting personalities and character arcs.

For TNG, I would suspect it to be Worf and Data.

I would agree for Voyager that Doc and Seven were compelling (well, from what I've read -- I never really saw Seven, it's just everyone kept talking about her).

Who was most interesting in DSN? Jadzia and Odo? I'm not sure. I would say the entire ensemble there had more flavor.
 

Riva

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Haha I voted without seeing the results and I landed where every other genuine Star Trek fan has landed.

I have some thoughts on this, give me some time I will get back to it.
 

BadOctopus

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It's kind of interesting that each series had 1-3 characters that seemed to excel / stand out, having interesting personalities and character arcs.

For TNG, I would suspect it to be Worf and Data.
Picard changed quite a bit over the course of the series, too. He became less serious, reserved, and seemed to become more of a father figure and mentor to the other characters than just their captain.

But yeah, those three were pretty much the only ones with any depth. :shrug:

I would agree for Voyager that Doc and Seven were compelling (well, from what I've read -- I never really saw Seven, it's just everyone kept talking about her).
She was obviously meant to be mere eye candy to bring in the male viewers. But then she turned out to be this complex, compelling character who became more interesting the more she learned how to be human. She was vulnerable but badass, cold and aloof on the surface, but kind and loyal at heart.

Who was most interesting in DSN? Jadzia and Odo? I'm not sure. I would say the entire ensemble there had more flavor.
Odo and Dax, definitely. I thought Kira was a shrill harpy at first, but she was just so feisty and fearless and adorable, by the end I couldn't help but love her. In fact, I can't think of a character I actually hated. Even the minor ones were great. Garak, Dukat, MARTOK. Oh my God. Martok was the most awesome Klingon ever.

That's another thing that sucked about Voyager. No decent minor characters.
 

Riva

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Here is a post in which I have explained why DS9 though was the best was a bit hard to watch.

In short:

They walked away from the 'everything is gonna be alright' feeling TNG created. There was too much tension in it.

Voyages brought it back. Though it was not even half as good as DS9, it brought the star trek feeling back.

I prefer star trek.

On a side note @ people who are confused between the serieses; although ds9 was obviously the best written and best acted series there was too much tension in it. The best aspect of star trek is the relaxed vibe of it. they are explorers that come across new species or circumstances that create issues but at the end of the day 'everything was gonna be alright'. This was the pace of tos tng voyager, whereas ds9 didnt have that. It had too much tension and took that everything is going to be alright feeling away from things.

Watch tng. And while you are at it google best episodes on tos and watch them too.

Ds9 is the best but you wouldnt get a star trek feeling from it. Their archs are too long. Tng and tos has one episode archs.

Ds9 will spin you if you watch too much like babylon5, whereas tng you can calmly be entertained for as many episodes as you like. I would say for entertainment purposes tng is the best.

Tos is too old fashioned and kirk apparently has a secret agenda to fuck every alien he sees. He also thinks he is sexier than he is.

Anyway, when you are watching ds9 i recomment you watch elim garak episodes or simply the best episodes.
 

Passacaglia

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She was obviously meant to be mere eye candy to bring in the male viewers. But then she turned out to be this complex, compelling character who became more interesting the more she learned how to be human. She was vulnerable but badass, cold and aloof on the surface, but kind and loyal at heart.
After watching a few episodes after Voyager rescued 7o9, I was finally able to put a finger on what bothers me about her: On the surface, it makes sense that a freed borg would be super logical and efficiency-oriented. She is 'half-borg,' after all. But then I imagined myself in her position -- getting assimilated as a child, living for years within the comforting/smothering Collective, and then becoming a fully-fledged individual with suddenly unrepressed emotions and natural urges -- and I imagined myself being the opposite of 7o9. I'd pretty much be the child I was when I was assimilated -- except with an adult's body and chemistry.

That said, I do enjoy the eye-candy. :D
 

Doctor Anaximander

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I never made it through two seasons of Voyager, I think I only watched the first. And yeah, I felt like it was TNG but watered down even more -- all the stuff I hated about TNG exemplified. "Boy Scouts in Space" and all that.... I think I had just really burned out on the Brannon Braga approach to scifi TV by then. [I tried to watch Terra Nova when it was out, a few years back, and found myself frustrated by the SOS that annoyed me in Trek.]

i thought Tom Paris was a cool idea, but he was diluted somehow. I needed more grit.

I did read that there were a few really good episodes, and I think i watched one last year, but I don't remember much about it or what it was called anymore. I didn't much take to Janeway either. Everyone felt so bland to me.

You really missed out on some greats. It got better starting about halfway through season 3. I hated the Kazon--they were Klingons lite, just like every other element of Voyager seemed to be an uninspired rehash of better things which came before. I enjoyed the Borg storyline (at first)--the way they subtly introduced the threat at the end of "Blood Fever" was cool. Species 8472 and the Hirogen were also neat, although the latter was a blatant Predator ripoff. There were some interesting aliens introduced in the later seasons, but the problem is that once a cool species was introduced, they disappeared not long after (due to the nature of Voyager's mission).

The only characters who had any real personality were Janeway, Seven, and the Doctor. The best episodes usually focused on one of those three. Tuvok wasn't too bad, I guess. I liked that he was a well-balanced Vulcan who took pride in his culture, unlike Spock, who struggled constantly with his identity.

Also, what frustrated me about Voyager was the over-use of the Reset Button. Every week something huge would happen. Somebody would suffer some trauma or the ship would be crippled by some hostile aliens, and then the next week, everything would be back to normal. It was hard to care about happened to these people, because nothing that happened to them ever had any repercussions. It was just... lazy writing.

They could have just called it the Janeway, Seven, Doctor hour.

I remember reading an interview with one of the voyager writers complaining about how it was unrealistic when the ship and uniforms were shiny and new every week. I would've liked a real arc, showing the ship being battered and gradually rebuilt with whatever parts they could salvage on their trip home--they could even have some borg tech with the help of Seven. The obvious answer is that it was cheaper to reuse the same exterior stock footage without having to constantly change the models and cgi. The 3rd season of Enterprise is a good example of a ship and its crew being cut off from home for an extended period of time and struggling to retain their humanity and core values. I never got the sense that struggle was happening with the voyager characters--they were portrayed as too perfect.

Here is a post in which I have explained why DS9 though was the best was a bit hard to watch.

In short:

They walked away from the 'everything is gonna be alright' feeling TNG created. There was too much tension in it.

Voyages brought it back. Though it was not even half as good as DS9, it brought the star trek feeling back.

Although a weaker show, Voyager definitely stayed closer to Roddenberry's vision.

After watching a few episodes after Voyager rescued 7o9, I was finally able to put a finger on what bothers me about her: On the surface, it makes sense that a freed borg would be super logical and efficiency-oriented. She is 'half-borg,' after all. But then I imagined myself in her position -- getting assimilated as a child, living for years within the comforting/smothering Collective, and then becoming a fully-fledged individual with suddenly unrepressed emotions and natural urges -- and I imagined myself being the opposite of 7o9. I'd pretty much be the child I was when I was assimilated -- except with an adult's body and chemistry.

That said, I do enjoy the eye-candy. :D

I think her cold exterior was just as much a product of her personality as it was years of being a borg drone. When Voyager rescues Icheb in a later season (also assimilated as a child), he seems to regain his "human" characteristics much faster, although in fairness, he spent less time in the collective.
 

Doctor Anaximander

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That's another thing that sucked about Voyager. No decent minor characters.

Three words: Vorik, Naomi Wildman. There were also some decent guest stars (Kurtwood Smith, James Sloyan, Jason Alexander, etc)

Not to mention Q. He had great chemistry with Janeway. We also learn more about the Q continuum in Voyager than in any previous series.
 

93JC

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I didn't vote in the poll; it's somewhere between "okay" and "total shit". I loved Star Trek when I was a kid and I'm not sure if growing up soured me on it or if Voyager did it.

Voyager suffered from all of the aforementioned problems—flat, one-dimensional characters, no sense of any repercussions from episode-to-episode—but one that hasn't been touched on in this thread yet is the one that bothered me the most: too many deus ex machina endings.

The frequency of dire problems being solved with "technobabble" bullshit was so inordinate it that it subdued every subsequent attempt at putting the ship and any of the characters in danger. It was a sort of "boy who cried wolf" situation. Immediate threats were neutralized so easily and flippantly that the audience wasn't going to buy it in episodes that followed. It felt terribly hollow.

The show did have some great guest stars on occasion, who played some very compelling characters, but all in all they were mostly one-offs that got lost in the sea of otherwise 'meh' characters. The recurring characters were 'meh'. (Vorik? Naomi-frickin'-Wildman? You gotta be kidding me!)
 

PeaceBaby

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To answer the question: because they're not true Trekkies, that's why. Sure, you can be selective and stand behind your favorite, everyone favors one series above all the others.

True Trekkies leave no series behind! ;)

Voyager built momentum season to season and endeavored to remain close to Gene Roddenberry's vision. The premise was initially interesting - flung to the far reaches of the Delta quadrant, Starfleet and Maquis had to find a way to coexist. Once relieved of some of the tension of this initial structure, Voyager had some episodes that rival the strength of the best found in any of the other series. The two-parters Equinox and Year From Hell - excellent. Year From Hell was strong enough to have stood alone as a feature film. So many more episodes come to mind ... Timeless, Deadlock, Barclay's obsession, Tuvix, the series finale in Endgame ... ah, I could go on, but when you go through the list, it worked. It was Star Trek.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Voyager is a contender for my favorite Star Trek series. Enterprise is also a contender, but I like Janeway better than Archer. I don't mind her smoker's voice. It's the same voice my siblings and I used when we wanted to pretend we were alligators. nevermind...
 

Tellenbach

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I liked the series, but I didn't like the casting of Tuvok, Neelix, and Harry; Kes had no dimension at all and the B'Elanna character was grossly underused. Also, Janeway's reckless decision making was annoying. I loved the idea of being lost in space and trying to get home, but it would've worked better as a movie or mini-series, not 7 seasons.

As mentioned, some episodes like the Year of Hell two-parter were terrific.
 

Luke O

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One big issue with Voyager was the use of annoying characters. It helped to stop me connecting with the series, as if I really could not care what happened to them. I still haven't seen all episodes of Voyager and I have no inclination to do so, there are a few great episodes (if they could do a good final episode like Endgame, they could have tried harder earlier). Here's what I think of the main characters.

Janeway - She was an OK captain. I get the need to have non 'white male' characters, and to have a female captain was a good move. She had badass moments (esp her future self, again in Endgame), but didn't stand out as a force to be reckoned with.

Chakotay - Interesting choice of character, and despite their loyalties, became good friends with Janeway. Bit too laid back for command, and I would have liked to have seen more episodes about his history - instead we had Captain Proton.

Tuvok - I really liked Tuvok. Even though he was the oldest character, they did take time to explore his history, even as a Vulcan he came across as complex and three dimensional.

Tom Paris - Twat.

Harry Kim - Twat's sidekick who knows better.

B'elanna - I think she could have been a stronger character. She's half Klingon yet they focused too much on her softer side. Maybe to stop the male viewers getting too intimidated, lol.

The Doctor - For a computer simulation, the EMH was more human than many of the human characters, even helping to flesh them out. Portrayed excellently by Robert Picardo.

Neelix - He just wanted to be loved and find a use for himself aboard the ship. Now I have known real life people like that.

Seven of Nine - Even though the Borg were very much diluted in Voyager (another thing I have an issue with), their power shows through how much they affected Seven. She's fucked up, but still helps out. Even though she is not someone you'd get along with, she became a vital part of the team.

Kes - Seriously, the Elogium? A seven year lifespan? It's a wonder your species survived so long. I didn't miss you when you were gone.
 

chubber

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Captain Kathryn Janeway makes more sense as Galina 'Red' Reznikov in Orange Is the New Black.
 

Doctor Anaximander

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It would have been even better without Tim Paris. In fact all of Voyager would have.

I didn't mind Tom. At first he came across as the love child of Riker and Wesley Crusher, but he grew out of that as the series progressed. I liked it whenever he was paired with Tuvok in "Future's End." Harry Kim was a far more irritating and pointless character.
 

Ivy

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I liked Voyager better than DS9, personally- though they all had their moments. I have little substantial to say about it since it's been so long since I watched it, though. I just remember as a teen (I think I was 18 when it started airing) being glad to see a prominent woman captain in the Star Trek franchise, and really liking her as a character. I also enjoyed that shape-shifting doctor guy. And 7o9 ticked me off at first because it looked like she was brought in as eye candy but then I remember coming to a begrudging fondness for her character.

I actually liked Enterprise a lot and I agree with you that it would have continued to grow had it remained on air. I mean, there was a beagle on the crew! How cute is that. I also thought the (human) crew had better on-screen chemistry than the crew on Voyager or DS9.
 
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