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Why in my opinion the theory it'self is toxic.

Charus

The singularity hive
Joined
May 27, 2017
Messages
247
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
It is rooted in how online descriptions depict the MBTI types or cognitive functions, it wont help the person when all IxFP gets in their description just "They are sensitive people, ocean of emotions, prone to oversensitivity and inclined to melancholy" and basicaly giving Fi doms the "Nice guy" treatment in the most patronizing way possible, basicaly "You have ocean of emotions, you are sensitive, but you suck and are a burden with everything else" meanwhile ENTJ's get all the great respect and gets something like "Organised people, ambitious and highly driven, great at logic and thinking, highly pragmatic and assertive, very hardworking, grinds 24/7, the drawback is that they can be rude and blunt", so there is no wonder why so many people are insecure about being a Feeler.

So, out of those, what do you want to choose? I would obviously choose the ENTJ one over the Fi dom one, obviously, nobody does want to associate themselves as someone who is oversensitive and melancholic. The issue is how Fi's actual qualities seem invisible and intangible, and are easily overshadowed by It's negative qualities, meanwhile Te qualities are visible in all It's glory and It's negative sides seem insignificant in comparison.

Community is one thing, but the main issue is rooted within the theory it'self, no matter how much you deny it, the theory it'self is toxic and makes certain types appear either more "Cooler" and/or more powerful than the others (Primarily INTJ's, ExTP's ExTJ's), so there is no wonder why many people want to avoid being an Fi dom and cling to be something like an ENTJ or ENTP, because their qualities appear far more visible and tangible compared to their non-existent weakness, unlike Fi dom types, which has their qualities invisible, intangible and being completely overshadowed by their extremely visible negative qualities.

Many said that people will find their inferior function to be ashamed of it because It's their weakness, but I havent seen a single ENTJ, or ENTP, or ESTP being ashamed of their inferior function, and many of them still eitherway express how dealing with inferior Te person in their lives is the worst.
 

Doctor Cringelord

Retired from typology
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
19,925
What if you had to choose between being a neurodivergent ENTx or a neurotypical IxFP?

I'd take the latter 10 times out of 10.
 
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Rayos

New member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
5
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
You described why the commonly accepted descriptions are topic (something I do not completely disagree with), not why the theory itself is toxic, which is a much more dubious claim in my opinion.
 

Skimt

Member
Joined
May 24, 2020
Messages
136
The complexities of my disorder is misrepresented all over the internet, by psychologists, as they get crucial aspects of it such as splitting wrong. From that, I doubt the average person can utilize or build on the MBTI. Belbin's Team Roles is the only thing I think is relevant for work, and the Big 5 is probably better to describe temperament.
 

Sparkykun

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
87
MBTI Type
INFJ
People are assigning far more to the four dichotomies than what's there:

Introversion: prefer being a member in the crowd
Extroversion: prefer being at the center of attention

Intuition: People who have an Universal Unconscious that's not of the physical time space
Sensing: People who have an Universal Unconscious that's more in-tune with the physical plane

Feeling: People who are more in-tune with how they and other people feel
Thinking: People who are more objective in their orientation with what they do, and consider things from the community perspective rather than the individual

Judgment: People who place things where they picked them up
Perceiving: People who place things where they last used them

You can definitely look into the temperaments, which make up MBTI+, and further differentiates the types:

In terms of profile description, I feel like personality page.com has the best descriptions of each type:

 

Lady Lunacik

ESI-Se ♥ EVFL ♥ ISFP
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,720
As I said in different words on PerC, everything in your writings comes from the angle of determining value based on what everybody else thinks. "Many people have complained about this," and so on. You're not determining value based on your own vision.

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, Fi doms included. The left isn't better than the right, it's just different. When you stop determining value/worth according to the toxic popular consensus and think for yourself more (which ironically pertains to using more Fi to determine what you value), you will be able to see that.

In other words, if anything, you seem to lack Fi so much that you don't think for yourself enough.
 
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Miaplacidus

New member
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
26
MBTI Type
TiN
Enneagram
593
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
To add to the stereotype - Fi doms love art and culture. It is as if an Fi dom cannot be into science or other subjects, or non-Fi doms cannot love art and culture. Just ridiculous. Such a statement has shown up in at least one online test and it was used to measure Fi.
 

Indigo Rodent

Active member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
425
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
1w9
It is rooted in how online descriptions depict the MBTI types or cognitive functions, it wont help the person when all IxFP gets in their description just "They are sensitive people, ocean of emotions, prone to oversensitivity and inclined to melancholy" and basicaly giving Fi doms the "Nice guy" treatment in the most patronizing way possible, basicaly "You have ocean of emotions, you are sensitive, but you suck and are a burden with everything else" meanwhile ENTJ's get all the great respect and gets something like "Organised people, ambitious and highly driven, great at logic and thinking, highly pragmatic and assertive, very hardworking, grinds 24/7, the drawback is that they can be rude and blunt", so there is no wonder why so many people are insecure about being a Feeler.
There's certainly strong bias in basic descriptions. For example Dario Nardi described ESTJs weakness as "Often disappointed when perfectionistic standards for economy and quality are not met." and ENTJs basically as having ADHD. But in the new book "The Magic Diamond" he gets much deeper into types and the main problem with Te doms is that they can be delusional psychopaths.

To add to the stereotype - Fi doms love art and culture. It is as if an Fi dom cannot be into science or other subjects, or non-Fi doms cannot love art and culture. Just ridiculous. Such a statement has shown up in at least one online test and it was used to measure Fi.
Especially that artists tend to be Thinkers since it's a technical field.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,847
MBTI Type
NiFe
Enneagram
6
@Indigo Rodent

I don't know much about visual art, except that I was very good at it when I was younger (pencil drawings), but the trend I notice with the music artists I listen to is that they are Feeling second. Pop is more ESFP and ISFJ and when you go indie/underground you see ENFP and INFJ.

I'm just wondering - and I know my database is biased by my own preference - why is art being framed as a Thinking discipline by you? Do you mean visual art specifically, because even that should be based more on emotional expression than on technics, though I may be misled about idealised notions of how art should be.

Let me know what you think.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,847
MBTI Type
NiFe
Enneagram
6
Interestingly, the above post shows an SiFe function order.
 

Apeironstella

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2022
Messages
20
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I mean, that's either the point you go Beebe's 8 functions model (which is fairly similar to Socionics' Model A anyway) or turn to Socionics or just in general MBTI circles where people talk about how each function can manifest positively or negatively. MBTI is a trademarked company that of course pushes feel good material with downplaying negative sides of their assesment of people in order to appeal to more people, also because it is mainly created for business in the sense of "who would be best fit for what job" way (from it's creation too, as that was primary goal of Myers back then) of course you want to sell the idea of why you think this person would be great at what job.

I do think MBTI descriptions of functions do tend to smoothen them overall too (looking at you especially, Se), I'm with you on that, but I don't think how it's used by people who are mainly around to have fun and treat it like a more pseudo-sciency horoscope doesn't mean no one can find any value in using and expanding said system, outside of trademark more surface level business side of things it's used as shallowly as you describe for? (again, pointing back to Beebe if you don't want to deal with Socionics if you want to see more discussions of roles functions can play for different types positively or negatively, though I haven't brushed up on his work in a while)
 
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