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Why are so many neurodivergent people attracted to and concentrated in the arts?

Doctor Cringelord

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why? seems to be a disproportionate amount of them in the arts. And of the ones who tried to pursue business and "normal" careers, many seem to be failed artists or in the least are hobbyists in various arts.
 
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MaxMad244

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I am neurodivergent. I could not make up my mind on anything. I have my strong passions which reflect my neurodivergent state but I am the complete opposite of what you describe.
 

chubber

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maybe they just gave up? I always keep reading, how many times successful businesses were due lessons learned from many failed businesses before them. or am I understanding that incorrectly? what is your definition of failure? employment opportunities, corporate, small business? what are we talking here?
 

Doctor Cringelord

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You can just look at the unemployment rates for disabled people to understand my question. The rate for disabled people is well above the average, and is even higher among people with autism, people with disorders affecting nervous system threat response, and people with other various developmental disorders (AKA anyone not autistic but still falling under the umbrella of neurodivergence). That's not even considering the number of "discouraged workers" on the neurodivergent spectrum (discouraged workers are not typically included in labor department unemployment rate statistics). A multitude of autists and neurodivergents who have already given up. Not to mention the high suicide rate among neurodivergents and autistics--that's just counting the ones who were diagnosed and known of when they decided to kill themselves--there's likely a much higher number of neurodivergents who have committed suicide as a result of feeling totally alienated and out of sync with the rest of their species.

Chronic unemployment is high among neurodivergents and many struggle in more traditional fields like business. Many neurodivergent adults I meet are engaged in the arts in some form or another. They seem to concentrate more there than in most fields, although I assume representation is high in a few non-arts areas like IT, technical support and engineering (or any field that doesn't require a lot of social interaction or rapid, unexpected changes arising from switching from task to task.

I guess I answered my own question right there.
 
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chubber

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I like to think attachment theory has a good explanation as to what is going on, especially when it comes to alienation, as you put it. In short, if you are not fed the needed "modern" survival "social" skills as a child up to the age of 5. It will be a constant battle. Although they say now after more research, teenagers also have changes, and requires the necessary guidance.

My suspicion is, someone who probably identifies as someone on the spectrum, might not always be genetically. Maybe the lack of social "nutrition" as I would put it.

Adult Attachment Theory and Research
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I like to think attachment theory has a good explanation as to what is going on, especially when it comes to alienation, as you put it. In short, if you are not fed the needed "modern" survival "social" skills as a child up to the age of 5. It will be a constant battle. Although they say now after more research, teenagers also have changes, and requires the necessary guidance.

My suspicion is, someone who probably identifies as someone on the spectrum, might not always be genetically. Maybe the lack of social "nutrition" as I would put it.

Adult Attachment Theory and Research
Perhaps. But for every kid who simply wasn't socialized properly, there was probably a neurodivergent child whose parents and/or adult mentors went to every effort to socialize them properly, and the kid still ended up an alienated adult with no support.

Be careful, there's a slight ableist tinge to what you're saying, although I realize it's not coming from a place of malice so much as one of ignorance. The old wisdom that autistic people just need the proper socialization as children needs to be reevaluated. It's akin to the now discarded theory that autistic kids are a result of "refrigerator mothers"

Problem with that line of thinking is that it doesn't take into account the burnout that hits a lot of autistics in adulthood (especially as they get closer to middle age). Many of them, especially the ones belonging to the older generations that lacked awareness, data on autism, and support services/accomodations, were "successfully" socialized (AKA they learned to mask to survive what to them was a very scary and unpredictable minefield). That constant masking takes a great toll on autistic people, and many report burning out in adulthood because they simply can't continue to cope with the physical and mental toll taken. It wears on one over the years. So much of autism research and news has been focused on childhood autism that people are really only now beginning to understand the struggles that continue (and how they change) into adulthood for autistics and other neurodivergents. The fact that more people are being diagnosed now in adulthood helps, but we have a long fucking way to go in understanding how hard that shit really is. You probably have encountered dozens of struggling adult autists, yet you wouldn't know because I bet every one of them was running at full power to mask any quirk or behavior that might get them ousted from yet another job or social circle.

Yes, I am sure there are many out there who find the label attractive or comforting and are not on the spectrum, but also, please consider that many of the ones who claim it and appear fairly "normal" or well-adjusted in society likely do have it and are masking successfully enough to be taken for "normal" or faking it. Just be aware that those people who actually have it are fighting very hard battles. Raising awareness will ultimately lead to more undiagnosed people getting the evaluations and support they need, and hopefully will lead to fewer "poseurs" self-diagnosing or wearing the label like a new trend. Curtailing awareness will mean more confused people and fake autists claiming the label.
 
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chubber

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Thanks for teaching me the term "refrigerator" mothers.

My guess, then would be, being artist requires one to be alone. It is accepted to be alone when doing one's art. No one questions the artist. Sure there are artisans that work as teams. But as work with pressure, is it the same thing?

Is that part of your conclusion?

To address the "line of thinking", once the person is past the age of 5, there is no "nutrition" that is going to "cure" these people with the struggle, only coping mechanisms. And these coping mechanisms I think is what you are referring to as their struggles. It is not a matter of simply just give and their problems goes away. Nor was it implied. I thought I made that clear that the critical time is up to the age of 5. After that it is, a very real struggle and this is what Attachment Theory is all about. I can't talk about "refrigerator" mothers. Although it does seem like a chapter from one of the many types explained under Attachment Theory as to why the child experience anxiety and later in adulthood.

So the child that was clinically diagnosed as someone on the spectrum, and they went through everything as parents to aid and assist them. How does one teach being secure in a child, without reaching high levels of narcissism. There was a book written in the 70s based on Attachment theory on how to lower the likely hood of the outcomes. I've been trying to get my hands on a copy. Sorry I am derailing, these people, who feel alienated, are you saying, it is because people do not have empathy for them? because empathy means, feel in to you, you literally had to experience it to understand it. Hence why "Empaths" were really at some point in their life the opposite. So I would think, "warmth" will still help. If you find yourself in a difficult position to communicate, you will feel frustrated surely? Is it communication? Lack of verbalising, the constant ownership of their parents and caretakers? Their lack of self identity? Is it the way they were brought up, e.g. the care givers, thinks, they will teach them skills, because that is what society will value them for instead of allowing/outcomes based, to see what the child could grow into? For example, they teach the child an artisan skill, because the care givers think the child can be nothing more than that. And the child or adult, when older, realises that they are stuck with the only skills taught, but wished for more?

What are your thoughts?
 

Lady Lunacik

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Define neurodivergent here. I mean, depending on context, that can mean a lot.
 
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