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"Typology helps me understand people better"--or does it?

Lady Lunacik

ESI-Se ♥ EVFL ♥ 8w9 (826) Sx/So
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I think one of my biggest problems with the typology community is that people think typology is so revelatory that they think when they've got you typed then the way to better understand you is to understand your type more, THEREFORE, they associate you with traits, characteristics, and ways, that aren't even necessarily anything like you, especially since they could be mistyping you in reality, but even IF they aren't mistyping you, those ways don't necessarily fit you. One misunderstanding grows into many huge misunderstandings about the person.

Does typology help you understand others, or does it help you more confidently MISunderstand others?

When people said don't judge a book by its cover they should've added don't judge individuals by a book.
 

Jaguar

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Well, yes. There's a knucklehead who follows me around the forum like a case of genital herpes and I can tell through his comments he thinks he knows me. I assure you, he does not.
 

Lady Lunacik

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^
Me every time someone types me as a 4. It's a cursed mistype labelling that follows me everywhere.

What really gets me is there are people who have never even had a conversation with me that INSISTENTLY type me as this.
 

RadicalDoubt

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It depends on how seriously you take typology tbh. Personally, I thought it helped me understand people better because it gave me a baseline of interest to look into people and how they worked mechanically. Especially for people I really didn't understand and initially judged, typology sort of gave me opportunity to upheaval my own biases. Nonetheless, there's quite a lot of people who DONT have that experience with typology and can use it to either fuel their own biases or grossly misunderstand others by aligning them with stereotypes or scapegoating a type.
 

Totenkindly

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A few thoughts:

Systems -- especially those involving people -- are never black and white but gray, complex, and need to remain flexible to accommodate reasonable variance. You are basically categorizing people by blending out the details and looking for broad patterns of similarity.

No system is perfect.

Every system is simply one framework, among a multitude of frameworks, so its usefulness depends on whether you are interested in the framework the system is actually operating under.

Most of the abuse likely comes from people trying to use conceptual limited systems to pre-define the specifics of particular individuals. It doesn't work that way.
 

Lady Lunacik

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It depends on how seriously you take typology tbh. Personally, I thought it helped me understand people better because it gave me a baseline of interest to look into people and how they worked mechanically. Especially for people I really didn't understand and initially judged, typology sort of gave me opportunity to upheaval my own biases. Nonetheless, there's quite a lot of people who DONT have that experience with typology and can use it to either fuel their own biases or grossly misunderstand others by aligning them with stereotypes or scapegoating a type.
Well said. ^ Wonderful post.
 

SirCanSir

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Ive stopped seeing typology as useful since the first year i got into it. I find it interesting to have some of your behaviors be explained with certain mechanisms that are implemented in each system but other than that it doesnt serve any value. If you dont see it as an interest and the system you are using is mostly a cause of misunderstandings than understandings then i think you should give up on that system.

And as ive told you in DMs, i think enneagram is a system that you should not take too seriously especially if you are dealing with issues that are far from what a neurotypical person does. You being similar to a 4 externally but having an entirely different motivation suggests that maybe the system itself is toxic for you. Again as RadicalDoubt said it depends on whats your stance with typology in general.
Personally i just got involved with it again to finally settle with a type as a more self aware person so i can feel that the time i spent on the interest wasnt in vain. Other than that, i only see it as a form of entertainment.
 

Lady Lunacik

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Ive stopped seeing typology as useful since the first year i got into it. I find it interesting to have some of your behaviors be explained with certain mechanisms that are implemented in each system but other than that it doesnt serve any value. If you dont see it as an interest and the system you are using is mostly a cause of misunderstandings than understandings then i think you should give up on that system.

And as ive told you in DMs, i think enneagram is a system that you should not take too seriously especially if you are dealing with issues that are far from what a neurotypical person does. You being similar to a 4 externally but having an entirely different motivation suggests that maybe the system itself is toxic for you. Again as RadicalDoubt said it depends on whats your stance with typology in general.
Personally i just got involved with it again to finally settle with a type as a more self aware person so i can feel that the time i spent on the interest wasnt in vain. Other than that, i only see it as a form of entertainment.
Same, and I don't take it seriously, but I can't help but to feel bothered by people 'understanding' me through the lense of E4. IDK, maybe I just should just count any sort of relationship with those people as a lost cause bc they won't get me.

IDK, I don't even expect to have a relationship with everyone who has typed me as such--many of them are already way gone out of my life. I guess it just bothers me to be associated with something that conflicts so hardcore with my values and the person I truly am. I wouldn't even say no part whatsoever is like me, it'd be 3rd in tritype imo, but only barely and in shallow ways because none of the heart types are a good fit at all. People use something way off of who I am to understand me and it just results in one big misunderstanding about who I am. If I'm going to interact here I don't want to be forced to deal with that giant misunderstanding all the time.
 

Red Memories

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^
Me every time someone types me as a 4. It's a cursed mistype labelling that follows me everywhere.

What really gets me is there are people who have never even had a conversation with me that INSISTENTLY type me as this.

I think a lot of people surface level type anyone who is highly revealing of their troubles in their lives to be a 4.

I say this because I am also commonly typed as 4 and I am a 2.
 

SirCanSir

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Same, and I don't take it seriously, but I can't help but to feel bothered by people 'understanding' me through the lense of E4. IDK, maybe I just should just count any sort of relationship with those people as a lost cause bc they won't get me.

IDK, I don't even expect to have a relationship with everyone who has typed me as such--many of them are already way gone out of my life. I guess it just bothers me to be associated with something that conflicts so hardcore with my values and the person I truly am. I wouldn't even say no part whatsoever is like me, it'd be 3rd in tritype imo, but only barely and in shallow ways because none of the heart types are a good fit at all. People use something way off of who I am to understand me and it just results in one big misunderstanding about who I am.

4s do have that great need to be understood because they feel special and want to be justified for feeling that way, but... you cant type someone as a 4 when they really have dealt with misunderstandings their whole life to the point they were traumatized by that. If you want to identify as something based on what your behavior looks like, sure you can go ahead and type as 4 sx or 8 sx but that wont give you any sort of clarity. I think given how being misunderstood by others can trigger you, you should probably give up on enneagram and stick with some other system. When entertainment stops being fun its no longer entertainment.
 

Lady Lunacik

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I think a lot of people surface level type anyone who is highly revealing of their troubles in their lives to be a 4.

I say this because I am also commonly typed as 4 and I am a 2.
That's probably true, they are. I just can't stand people assuming my motives when I'm so incredibly opposite of those things I'm being associated with, then going around interacting with these people who hold assumptions about me. BTW, @Frosty, I'm not talking about you in all of this. I've just been mistyped as this for way too long and I'm done with not confronting it.

If I accept that this is just the way things are around here, I must also move on from the forums because interaction is the whole point of being here and I'm not going to sit here interacting with people who constantly misinterpret my motives just because I'm complex, often misunderstood, emotionally expressive, and introspective, and in a period of sifting through my past.
 

Lady Lunacik

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4s do have that great need to be understood because they feel special and want to be justified for feeling that way, but... you cant type someone as a 4 when they really have dealt with misunderstandings their whole life to the point they were traumatized by that. If you want to identify as something based on what your behavior looks like, sure you can go ahead and type as 4 sx or 8 sx but that wont give you any sort of clarity. I think given how being misunderstood by others can trigger you, you should probably give up on enneagram and stick with some other system. When entertainment stops being fun its no longer entertainment.
I haven't been triggered by being misunderstood in a very long time, and though we haven't spoken regularly in quite some time, I've already grown out of this for the most part. This is really about the way the people I interact with here are seeing me. Would you want to interact with people who saw you as someone practically entirely opposite of who you are? Me defending this is basically me trying not to have to leave because I genuinely like and respect several of the people around here and I can't talk to them elsewhere. This is the one place where I'm constantly misunderstood like this.
 

SirCanSir

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I haven't been triggered by being misunderstood in a very long time, and though we haven't spoken regularly in quite some time, I've already grown out of this for the most part. This is really about the way the people I interact with here are seeing me. Would you want to interact with people who saw you as someone practically entirely opposite of who you are? Me defending this is basically me trying not to have to leave because I genuinely like and respect several of the people around here and I can't talk to them elsewhere. This is the one place where I'm constantly misunderstood like this.

Well in my case im used to being seen as someone else because of my boundaries, but i would be bothered if someone close to me misunderstood my intentions. But those people are really less than a handful. And i would be bothered if someone mistreated me and accused me. So its a bit subjective. It depends on how much this affects you.
 

Lady Lunacik

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Well in my case im used to being seen as someone else because of my boundaries, but i would be bothered if someone close to me misunderstood my intentions. But those people are really less than a handful. And i would be bothered if someone mistreated me and accused me. So its a bit subjective. It depends on how much this affects you.
Usually it's not, but when it's so big it does. There are ways in which people misunderstand me in everyday life all the time and it's fine, and sometimes I even prefer it because I'd rather remain reserved, but when many people all over a forum I talk on see me as someone entirely different than who I am and won't even take the time to actually get to know me without that label they put on me, it affects me.
 

Lady Lunacik

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I feel like many people in the typology community are so busy getting to know typology that they never get to know me--except they think they know me better than I know myself.
 

Red Memories

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I feel like many people in the typology community are so busy getting to know typology that they never get to know me--except they think they know me better than I know myself.

I tend to enjoy typology but I tend to only type people if they're requesting it or want some explanation or whatever because in the end typology is an imperfect mechanism.

Every type has negative traits. I don't know your motivations, cores, or anything.
 

Charus

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Well, yes. There's a knucklehead who follows me around the forum like a case of genital herpes and I can tell through his comments he thinks he knows me. I assure you, he does not.

Same thing here with the IxFP aswell, yeah MBTI type stereotyping bullshit is really annoying.
 

Frosty

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That's probably true, they are. I just can't stand people assuming my motives when I'm so incredibly opposite of those things I'm being associated with, then going around interacting with these people who hold assumptions about me. BTW, @Frosty, I'm not talking about you in all of this. I've just been mistyped as this for way too long and I'm done with not confronting it.

If I accept that this is just the way things are around here, I must also move on from the forums because interaction is the whole point of being here and I'm not going to sit here interacting with people who constantly misinterpret my motives just because I'm complex, often misunderstood, emotionally expressive, and introspective, and in a period of sifting through my past.

Its cool. In my opinion, now, people absolutely have the right to their own self understandings and well- I dont know people well enough to insist- even probably with my closest friends and family- that I know someone better than they know themselves. Not my place and- not directly speaking of you here just saying in general- I would never want to cause distress to anyone with my typings because Im just some person on the internet at the end of the day
 

Froody Blue Gem

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I still find Typology to be very interesting. And type people IRL on a subconscious level. But it takes getting to know people to actually properly type them. Vibetyping or typing on something like a profile picture is never going to be accurate.But not everyone fits the stereotypes and it gets to a point when people judge you by the label on the tin, or memes rather than just getting to know you.

It's annoying when people let that vibetype stick and look at you through the lense of their vibe and they won't see it any other way. Saying someone is a certain type because they seem a certain way or don't seem a certain way, but not delving deeper than "what it seems." And people assuming "you don't seem ____" is a self explanatory enough explanation. Then they judge you from afar, based off of their narrow perception of you. When people who are your friends have a more acurate depiction, and they won't assume things like that. Humans are complicated creatures, and not everyone is going to be a meme.

I've had the experience being in servers, people seeing type labels that they can't piece together how the combo fits, and they start grilling out the wazoo about your labels and not getting to know you as a person. Or taking things out of context and basing an entire type on just one or a few posts. Just asking a lot of questions like you're being interrogated. When that was not the original topic in the first place. And people just see you typing in the chat and ping you just to grill you. It especially stinks when you're a person with social anxiety who hates being put on the spot. If it were a civil conversation, or a setting where you choose how much you want to reveal, I'd be happy to explain the combo. People don't have to agree with the label or anything and yes it does take further observation.

But the thing that is bothering about it is not really caring to know about people, their interests, their individual traits. Just a shallow label on a tin, and getting aggressive about it and Typology intertwines with personal TMI stuff when it comes to why you're typed the way you are which makes it tricky once you dive down the rabbithole. Well, it basically explains how you take in information but we type the way we do for a reason and it leads to a ton of assumption.

In my experience and others, if you have a diagnosis or multiple diagnoses, one may be harder to type, and things that are out of context are especially not the contents of a person. And it makes certain preferences blurrier.

With the E4 thing, it is true about talking about emotions, being aware of how different you are or identity and people assuming "so and so is a 4."

So and so can't be low fe/fi because of being too sensitive or agreeable. Or can't be high fe because of being insensitive.

I also find if one is artsy fartsy and it's a big part of who you are, you get the 4 label too and I've experienced it too. . I'll acknowledge for me personally, 4 is still a very plausible tritype option but it ain't my core.
 

Vendrah

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I think one of my biggest problems with the typology community is that people think typology is so revelatory that they think when they've got you typed then the way to better understand you is to understand your type more, THEREFORE, they associate you with traits, characteristics, and ways, that aren't even necessarily anything like you, especially since they could be mistyping you in reality, but even IF they aren't mistyping you, those ways don't necessarily fit you. One misunderstanding grows into many huge misunderstandings about the person.

Does typology help you understand others, or does it help you more confidently MISunderstand others?

When people said don't judge a book by its cover they should've added don't judge individuals by a book.

Typology is very inductive in nature, not deductive. The problem is that people uses "therefore" instead of likely. There is some inside correlations between traits, stuff like "if you are imaginative then you are more likely to like art" (this was from Big 5 actually but it helps for the explanation) is true to most of people, but not all of them, and sadly a lot of people replaces the "then you are more likely" part with "therefore": "if you are imaginative therefore you like art", which is wrong. That is the issue, but mistaking inductive reasoning with deductive reasoning is quite normal (its still an err anyway), I see it in movies all the time (detective movies are a lot prone to do this err).

But by induction, it helps you to try to make good guesses about people motives, stuff behind, etc.. Anyway, knowing what others think is impossible, you can't really deduct what is going on others people mind in one way or another. But you can guess what is likely going on on their minds, and the typology systems when in proper use (so forget some part of Socionics, for example), according to statistics and in Jung case not contradicting him without any stat to back up that, can assist and direct you into making the best guesses according to self-report, other-report (on Big 5 40 experimental types) and Jung's clinical experience (if you read other psychologists, it will be their experience but I think most psychologists doesn't really use typology that much except for helping you choosing careers). So, in my example, if you realize that the person is more artistic then you can guess that the person is imaginative as well, because on self-report and other-report there is a positive connection. The same goes to traits and types in general, but again, when you are using it proper. Wrong stereotypes like "Fi is selfish" just messes it, while correct stereotypes specially when combining typology systems, for example "ENFPs 7 with low Neuroticism are [more likely to be] happy" helps. But, you know, sadly there is a good bunch of misinformation running by different communities.

Some people do fit the stereotypes well, specially when the enneagram and MBTI types are an usual combination, such as INTP/INTJ 5, INFP/INFJ 4, ENTP/ENFP/ESFP/ESTP 7. For those, taking these assumptions normally works well.

EDIT: I just read the first 3 posts and Imma going to read the rest tomorrow, but I don't think that is unlikely that somebody said what I said here, its unlikely that I am repeating somebody's else post.
 
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