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Type Me/A 'Quick' Summary on Koto (RadicalDoubt Questionnaire)

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It may be a bit odd for me to do one of these considering I'm pretty confident in my typings, but at the same time it's always interesting seeing how people that don't know me very well perceive me based upon the limited info a questionnaire can provide. I'm also too lazy to proofread this so keep that in mind if any typos or grammatical errors pop up.

1) Context:
a) What is your age range and general location (Country so that cultural values can be taken into account)? Do you have any impairments that may affect the way that you answer this questionnaire? Any religious or political beliefs (or anything else along those lines) that also might have an effect?

b) Which types are you currently considering? Why are you considering them and why haven’t you decided on one?

a) I'm 19 years old; I've moved around a fair bit but the place that has most likely had the largest impact on me through its culture is the UK. It's also the country I've lived in the longest so from a more realistic standpoint it'd likely be the best choice either way. I don't have any religious or political beliefs that should have any impact on the way that I answer the questionnaire, and while there are disorders that I most likely suffer from, I haven't been officially diagnosed with anything,

b) I'm considering both INTP and INFP in MBTI, and 5w4 and 4w5 to a lesser extent in the enneagram. The former quandary is simply because I'm borderline on the T/F dichotomy; I don't have a clear preference for either regarding decision-making and from a functional perspective I can be best described as NiX anyway. With 5w4 vs 4w5, I believe myself to have the lines of movement of a 5 but the core fears/desires and behavioural traits of both 4 and 5. The combination of high neuroticism yet low agreeableness only blurs the line further.

2) What do you deem as your purpose in life?

I don't think that inherent purpose exists for one, and so it's hard for me to truly believe in an answer without it feeling somewhat contrived. After putting a lot of thought into my answer though, I think I would say that my purpose in life is to experience it fully. I don't want to restrict myself to a certain way of being, especially one not decided by myself, and limit myself as a result. It's not to say that I actively go out of my way to do everything I can while I'm alive; rather, I don't close myself off to what is perceived as negative since it's an integral part of life.

3) Of the seven deadly sins, which one(s) do you relate to the most and the least and why?

I don't have a clear answer for which sins I relate to most but for the one I relate to least, it'd likely be greed. I've never been big on material possessions, in fact I think that I'm pretty poor at appreciating things in the physical realm in general due to my detachment from the environment. As such, I've never really had any drive to acquire things and I tend to live a minimalist lifestyle instead. As for the sin I relate to most, wrath, lust, and sloth are all good candidates. My anger is pretty explosive and I don't have a lot of self-control either; that paired with the constant feeling of injustice I carry against the world can cause me to have occasional outbursts of hatred in which I want the entire world to suffer as well. This is usually a reaction against something though and in direct contrast to my usual state of indifference. Lust ties in to my poor self-control. I can have moments in which I go against my better judgement and ignore the consequences of my actions for instantaneous gratification, only to regret my decisions later. In the moment though I'm driven almost primarily by lust or desire for whatever it is that I want. I include sloth because my day-to-day life doesn't consist of much, and I like it that way. If given the option, I'd love to live a life in which I don't have to work at all and I can instead just relax and do whatever I feel is most interesting to do at any given moment.

4) Analyzing your relationships with others, briefly describe:
a) The type of people you are drawn to

b) The type of people who are drawn to you

c) The type of people you are repulsed by

a) I'm drawn to like-minded people: eccentric, intellectually curious, able to see the real meaning of things rather than focus on unimportant details, etc. If I was to attempt to explain what I mean through type, I'd say that INxx 5s, 4s, and 9s are the most appealing to me, since they allow me to feel understood and also provide me with a level of stimulation that I don't really get from the 'common' person if you will.

b) I haven't really thought a lot before about what sort of person is drawn to me. I think that I don't really appeal to people in general, not beyond the surface level 'Oh Koto you're so insightful and hard to figure out.' I'd guess that the people that I seek out are the same kind of people that are likely to seek me out.

c) The first thing that comes to mind are obnoxiously loud and upbeat people that constantly try and 'cheer me up' as if I'm not already in an okay mood simply because I'm quiet. People that constantly micromanage my every movement and insist that I have to do things they way that they want them to; people that are ultra-traditional and refuse any sort of change, including positive change, simply because it isn't what they're used to; people who are only concerned with keeping up with what is fashionable at the time with no regard for maintaining a consistent identity; people that are slow to catch on to anything and force me to slow down in order to accommodate their needs; the list really does go on and on.

5)What are the traits in others that you admire but you cannot emulate yourself? Elaborate.

I don't know if I'd say there are any traits in others that I admire too much if I'm speaking honestly. My gut instinct tells me work ethic; I consistently struggle with putting in effort into anything due to my reliance on my natural gifts. I don't think that I necessarily admire those that are able to work hard though since it's something that I make up for in other ways as previously stated, it's just something that I don't see myself being able to emulate anytime soon.

6) Describe your relationship with the following:
a) Anger

b) Shame

c) Fear

d) Love/passion

e) Conflict

a) I have a pretty rocky relationship with anger. I've often gotten into trouble with others over my anger and I still think I'm yet to have found a way to express it healthily; I'm not a perpetually angry person by any means, though I am easily irritated/frustrated. A lot of the time it shows itself through sarcasm and biting criticism but as a child I'd tend to lash out physically since it felt as though my words weren't being understood and that there was no other way to get anyone to listen to me.

b) I think out of the five on the list, this is the emotion that I'm least acquainted with. I get embarrassed easily but that's about it; regret on the other hand is something that I feel fairly often.

c) I'm quite the fearful person, with some of my fears being strong enough to affect the way in which I live life pretty significantly. I prefer not to have to engage with my fears by any means if possible and so I run from them instead. This can be on a physical level, willingly giving my entire room up to a spider that has decided to inhabit it until it dies/someone else deals with it, or on a more abstract level, such as refusing to put myself in positions in which I will have to interact with others irl out of the fear of simply being in a social situation. I would say that the fear that holds me back most though is the fear of not being able to do things well; if I had more confidence in my ability to perform in the moment I think that I'd feel a lot better in general, but I don't, and so I spend inordinate amounts of time 'preparing' myself by studying, analysing, and building up my theoretical competence but never actually doing the thing that it is that I need to do.

d) As you may have figured out by now, I'm a pretty extreme person, and my relationship with love and passion is no exception. I'm either deeply interested in something or I have no interest in it at all. I have 'phases' in which I spend weeks or months obsessing over an interest, learning all there is to know about it, changing all my wallpapers and profile pictures to reflect it somehow, and then eventually picking up a new interest and moving on. I do have a couple long-term passions though. The main one is music; I've been deeply invested in music for as long as I can remember and would consider myself to be more of an expert than most on music theory, as well as being naturally gifted in the area, Typology is another long-standing passion, and as such I've eeked out pretty much all I can from MBTI and enneagram at this point, as well as dabbled in socionics for a while. I have this obsessive/uninterested mindset with people too; the large majority fall into the latter camp but every once in a while I find a person that I click with and end up getting to know them well in a pretty short amount of time before falling out of interest and moving on, though I don't particularly feel good about doing so, leading me to just not engage with most people anyway.

e) I'm not a fan of conflict and generally tend to avoid it if possible since assertiveness isn't my strong suit. However, if I feel strongly about something, I can become an instigator of conflict in an attempt to change someone's mind, and I can be very stubborn about it. This usually happens when it feels like someone is being illogical and wilful in their ignorance too; attempts to control me against my will are usually met with this sort of defiance as well.

7) What are some of the themes that have played a prominent role in your life (ie. A struggle you’ve been unable to conquer, ect)?

I think that the theme of cycles has been fairly prevalent; the idea that certain things are bound to repeat themselves albeit in different ways is one that I can get on board with, and as someone that experiences deja vu pretty often and also seems to find themselves making the same sort of mistakes, it holds true in personal experience. The theme of identity has unsurprisingly been prominent also. A lot of my time is spent thinking about how to best define myself and what I want to be, as well as trying to find ways to individualise the intellectual if that makes sense; if I was to be cliché I'd say that I look for the beautiful in the theoretical. Patterns are the clearest example of this, patterns in maths, music, art, time, there's just something deeply satisfying about things coming together neatly, especially if they seem chaotic and unusual at first. Odd time signatures like 7/8, polyrhythms, dissonant chords, etc, are all things that I love in music and seek to understand before pilfering for my own work.

8) Answer only one of the following:
a) [College aged and above] What is your area of work/study? Why did you choose this and would you change it? If so, what would be your ideal?

b)[Under college aged] What do you plan on studying/working as in the future? How did you go about deciding this? If this is not your ideal area of pursuit, what would be?

b) As I've alluded to multiple times now, I'm a musician and plan on pursuing music as a career. I'm not particularly concerned about being successful, I just want to spend my life doing something that I really care about. People like Jacob Collier and Thundercat are not only some of my favourite musicians but are also people I respect due to their dedication to their visions and ideas; it's all about the music for them, and it's all about the music for me too. It'd honestly be a dream just having the opportunity to vibe with musicians that really 'get' music. I don't really know how to explain it any better than that, I guess a pretty literal answer to the question about purpose is that I feel as though every fibre of my being exists to create and experience music.

9) When meeting a new person, what do you tend to focus on?

I tend to focus on them as a person I suppose, their worldview, their potential, their aptitude for certain things, etc. It's pretty much impossible for me not to categorise others as I meet them; 'what's their type, how intelligent are they, how do they differ to me, what are they likely to enjoy/dislike, can I get along with them' are all thoughts that I have and then from that I build a character model that is more often than not pretty accurate. This isn't to say that I don't change these initial impressions in time though.

10) How do you feel about humanity as a whole? What do you feel are some of the biggest problems the human race faces and why?

I'm pretty done with humanity honestly. Most of the time I don't really feel human myself, since it's pretty inconceivable that I could be related to what I perceive as 'others' in any sort of way. I find that the general population seems to be pretty ignorant, and happy about it as well, content with keeping the status quo than pushing for anything greater. I don't think that selfishness is inherently bad, but the way the world is set up it feels as though lining one's pockets takes priority over the well-being of oneself and others, and it's just pretty depressing to look at. I've given my thoughts on the MBTI community here before and a lot of what I said there applies to pretty much all societies imo; ignorance is going to be our downfall and the few that want to prevent it aren't going to be able to persuade the many that can't even see it.

11) What are some of your hobbies and interests?

Music, typology, anime, football (soccer), basketball, chess, gaming, analytical/commentary channels on Youtube (Summoning Salt, TheRightOpinion, Philosophy Tube, etc), and cars, those are the ones I can think of currently.

12) How do you usually “hang out” with your friend(s)? When answering, think about what activities you tend to choose, whether you hang out with one person at once or many, whether or not you initiate the interaction.

I don't hang out with my friends. My closest friends are all online, none of which I've met in person, and while I do have irl friends from school and so on, I don't interact with them outside of such. I like being on my own and I tire out easily when having to deal with people irl; I'm much more easily stimulated by mental activities and puzzle-solving. It had been literal years since I left the house for any sort of social event even before the pandemic, barring sports, and even then the competition and opportunity to show my tactical prowess is what draws me to them; if I wasn't naturally athletic there would be no way that I would have made the effort to become athletic since I find other things more interesting.

13) What is more important, actions or words? Why?

It depends on the context. I don't like taking unnecessary action, and so I tend to prefer to reason things out with others and remain diplomatic. It might be stupid of me, but I assume that everyone hold some level of reasonableness, and so I can reach an agreement or conclusion with them if I can simply show them where their logic falters. Unfortunately, there are always those that are so hellbent on following their values that they ignore the truth entirely, and with people like that, reason isn't an effective tool, so I tend to just leave them be. Action is required over words in more pressing/time-sensitive matters though, such as if someone is going to commit suicide or holding someone at hostage, or even in less stressful situations such as in competition; in those instances you don't really have much time to think and so you just have to make a choice and go with it, which is why I tend to prefer to avoid those sorts of situations.

14) Oh dear, you’ve been cursed by a witch! It’s ok though, you get a choice on which curse you will receive. Will you choose….
a) To never be able to experience the sensation of taste
b) To be immortal
c) To lose your memories
d) To be poor for the rest of your life
e) Or to never experience passion
Elaborate on why!

It would definitely be A, my sense of taste isn't important to me or particularly well developed and most of the time I don't even realise that I'm eating anyway since I'm thinking about other things. C would be devastating since I don't think I'd be myself without my memories, D is likely going to happen anyway but is still of more consequence than A, E would make life infinitely less interesting, and B is something that I'm not sure I'd necessarily dislike in the first place.

15) What do you hope to avoid being? If it helps, describe a person who embodies what you avoid/you as a villain, ect.

I'd want to avoid being like any of the people that I listed when talking about people that I'm repulsed by. It's interesting that the question points out 'you as a villain' to me since that implies that I'm already good, or that I don't have the desire to be villainous (I don't, but I don't think of things generally in terms of hero/villain or good/bad, nor am I concerned with being on either side of those dichotomies).

16) How do you relate to obsession? Do you tend to "merge" with others or your interests? How do you feel about the idea of doing this?

This is another question that I think I've already answered adequately in an earlier response.

17) Organized or messy? Plans and blueprints or impulse and surprises? What are you preferences and tendencies?

I prefer open-endedness to structure and closure, yes. I'm a pretty lazy person overall and like to find ways of doing things that get the job done with as little effort as possible. As such, my room is generally in a state, I don't tend to organise things before starting on them, and I can procrastinate on important work if I think that I have enough time left to do it still later on. Motivation plays a key role in all of this too though, if I simply don't feel in the mood to do something then it is basically impossible to get me to do it, and motivation is a fickle mistress, so there are times in which I crank out a 10,000 word essay in a couple of days without being asked to, and times in which I put off something as simple as sweeping my room until it's literally untenable.

18) How do you subjectively view comfort and how do you create comfort in your life and surroundings?

I don't really tend to think about comfort much at all. As I said, I'm pretty detached from my environment and body, sometimes I think I have a literal diminished capacity for experiencing and enjoying physical stimuli, and so I'm often told by others that I need to look after myself better, and that binging anime for 24 hours isn't going to be good for my health in the long run. It's not like I'm not aware that my habits are bad for me, but I don't have the dedication to improve on them, so what ends up happening is that I sort myself out for a few days before relapsing and going back to staying up late and eating sweets. My body enables this behaviour too, since I don't put on weight or show signs of deterioration; I know it'll catch up on me someday but I'll just sit and worry about it rather than do anything about it for now. As for creating comfort, I feel comfortable when I feel free, so by simply chilling out and doing whatever I feel like doing, I maintain that freedom and comfort that I enjoy.
 

Luminous

༻✧๖αη-∂яασι∂н✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
9,697
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think you've done a great job typing yourself.

I'd guess 594 sx/sp. 5 core, rather than 4, because you seem to exhibit more 5 than 4: though you struggle with anger, I'd expect more envy than you seem to have. There's more knowledge-focus, studiousness, detachment, retreating into your own mind, penetrating, withholding, ungrounded, fear of intrusion (5) and less a sense of being overly dramatic, emphasis on suffering, focus on what's missing, decadent wallowing (4).

I enjoyed reading your answers. Unsurprisingly, I can relate to some of your responses, with my having 59 and sx/sp in common with you.
 

yeghor

Tempbanned
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
3,003
b) As I've alluded to multiple times now, I'm a musician and plan on pursuing music as a career. I'm not particularly concerned about being successful, I just want to spend my life doing something that I really care about. People like Jacob Collier and Thundercat are not only some of my favourite musicians but are also people I respect due to their dedication to their visions and ideas; it's all about the music for them, and it's all about the music for me too. It'd honestly be a dream just having the opportunity to vibe with musicians that really 'get' music. I don't really know how to explain it any better than that, I guess a pretty literal answer to the question about purpose is that I feel as though every fibre of my being exists to create and experience music.

I think Jacob Collier is an ENFP. He looks quite friendly and extraverted. Ne would explain pattern seeking, messiness, procrastination, going after mental pursuits but it does not explain anger. Maybe you are verbally lashing out to emotionally hurt others when hurt rather than becoming intimidating and threatening to harm them.

He reminded me of Imogen Heaps. See video at the bottom.

Jacob Photos



Imogen Heaps Song



Edit: Thundercat has more Se in his eyes. He looks more like an xSFP and he seems to have gotten a bit chubby.
 

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think you've done a great job typing yourself.

I'd guess 594 sx/sp. 5 core, rather than 4, because you seem to exhibit more 5 than 4: though you struggle with anger, I'd expect more envy than you seem to have. There's more knowledge-focus, studiousness, detachment, retreating into your own mind, penetrating, withholding, ungrounded, fear of intrusion (5) and less a sense of being overly dramatic, emphasis on suffering, focus on what's missing, decadent wallowing (4).

I enjoyed reading your answers. Unsurprisingly, I can relate to some of your responses, with my having 59 and sx/sp in common with you.

Thank you for taking your time to read it all, and those are all fair points. Do you have any opinion on INTP vs INFP?
 

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think Jacob Collier is an ENFP. He looks quite friendly and extraverted. Ne would explain pattern seeking, messiness, procrastination, going after mental pursuits but it does not explain anger. Maybe you are verbally lashing out to emotionally hurt others when hurt rather than becoming intimidating and threatening to harm them.

He reminded me of Imogen Heaps. See video at the bottom.

Jacob Photos



Imogen Heaps Song



Edit: Thundercat has more Se in his eyes. He looks more like an xSFP and he seems to have gotten a bit chubby.

For once I don't completely disagree with everything you've said; I'd put Jacob Collier as a fairly obvious ENFP. I also don't think you're completely off with my type; intuitive dom and NP is how I see myself anyway, but certainly not extraverted, though I don't think your system allows for that. Thundercat is a pretty stereotypical INTP though, especially if you watch his interviews; either way, thanks for your input.
 

yeghor

Tempbanned
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
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For once I don't completely disagree with everything you've said; I'd put Jacob Collier as a fairly obvious ENFP. I also don't think you're completely off with my type; intuitive dom and NP is how I see myself anyway, but certainly not extraverted, though I don't think your system allows for that. Thundercat is a pretty stereotypical INTP though, especially if you watch his interviews; either way, thanks for your input.

I have a favor to ask, since you are a musician. How would you describe this song if it were a person/personality? What does it evoke in you?

 

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have a favor to ask, since you are a musician. How would you describe this song if it were a person/personality? What does it evoke in you?


Honestly, it'd be far easier for me to describe the song in terms of theory and what the implications of said theory generally tend to be than it would be for me to try and emotionally connect with it/describe it as a person. In general, most of my emotional reactions to music come from an intense appreciation of what's going on rather than to what the song is actually trying to make me feel; a ridiculous sequence of chord changes is more likely to catch my eye than any profound lyrics for example.
 

yeghor

Tempbanned
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
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Honestly, it'd be far easier for me to describe the song in terms of theory and what the implications of said theory generally tend to be than it would be for me to try and emotionally connect with it/describe it as a person. In general, most of my emotional reactions to music come from an intense appreciation of what's going on rather than to what the song is actually trying to make me feel; a ridiculous sequence of chord changes is more likely to catch my eye than any profound lyrics for example.

So what's the theory behind that song?
 

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So what's the theory behind that song?
Well it's in F# Minor, but I like to convert everything to the relative major of a key since it makes analysis easier, so we'll say it's in A major. The chord progression is pretty simple, vi-V-IV, IV-V-vi. It's in 4/4 as most songs tend to be, and that paired with the simple but effective chord structure means that it's going to be pretty catchy. Instrumentation-wise it's your standard EDM song, driven by some sort of synth bass and drums, doesn't really have a verse-chorus-verse-chorus format so much as it wavers between intense energy (the drop) and lesser energy (the setup for the drop). There's not much to say on it really, it's not meant to be a particularly complex song after all; it does what it wants to do pretty well, but it doesn't really distinguish itself in any significant way from the norms of the genre. Oh also, since it revolves so heavily around the vi chord of the key, it gives the song a more despondent/depressing feel than if it was major, say I-IV-V-I, which would still work with the melody but is sickeningly positive in my opinion.
 

yeghor

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Dec 21, 2013
Messages
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Well it's in F# Minor, but I like to convert everything to the relative major of a key since it makes analysis easier, so we'll say it's in A major. The chord progression is pretty simple, vi-V-IV, IV-V-vi. It's in 4/4 as most songs tend to be, and that paired with the simple but effective chord structure means that it's going to be pretty catchy. Instrumentation-wise it's your standard EDM song, driven by some sort of synth bass and drums, doesn't really have a verse-chorus-verse-chorus format so much as it wavers between intense energy (the drop) and lesser energy (the setup for the drop). There's not much to say on it really, it's not meant to be a particularly complex song after all; it does what it wants to do pretty well, but it doesn't really distinguish itself in any significant way from the norms of the genre. Oh also, since it revolves so heavily around the vi chord of the key, it gives the song a more despondent/depressing feel than if it was major, say I-IV-V-I, which would still work with the melody but is sickeningly positive in my opinion.

Thanks. I only understood despondent/depressing though. "it does what it wants to do pretty well". What does it want to do?
 

Koto

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291
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IN
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sx/sp
Thanks. I only understood despondent/depressing though. "it does what it wants to do pretty well". What does it want to do?
I mean, I don't want to derail this thread any further than I already have even though I do like talking about music, but in essence it's a song created to be 'hype', like I can easily imagine it being used in a gaming montage of 'epic CoD headshots' or something of the sort. It's for people that want to feel somewhat cool, it's a song that energises/inspires, not through its lyrics (which are mostly there just to have someone singing honestly since the actual content sounds like it was written by an 11 year old) but through the incessant driving force of the kick and snare and the aggressive synth bass and electronic effects.
 

Luminous

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sx/sp
Thank you for taking your time to read it all, and those are all fair points. Do you have any opinion on INTP vs INFP?

I lean toward INTP because it seems you have at least a little more preference for objective reason and logic over a more personal reason. But both seem congruent with what you've written.
 

RadicalDoubt

Alongside Questionable Clarity
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Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,828
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TiSi
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9w1
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sp/so
I completely agree with [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] 's typing of you (5w4 > 4w5 especially; I definitely see the 4, but you don't seem to have a relationship with shame in the same way that a 4 would tend to). I also can relate to a lot of your responses (although I do not possess an ounce of sx lol), probably because of the 59 combo and, I would assert, presence of Ti. I'm always a bit skeptical of people who type themselves as 5w4 considering how often people mistype as such, but you are clearly one.

By dichotomy, I would probably agree that you don't have a massive preference for T or F, but I think that INTP would be more fitting (as well as Ni-Ti over Ni-Fi; I saw before that you had listed yourself as both at some point). As Lumi mentioned, you have a preference for objective reasoning over personal, but I've also noticed that, while you mention having a strong sense of ethics and having struggled with emotional or aggressive outbursts, your sense of ethics and worldview as a whole seem to be formulated primarily through analysis and subjective logical reasoning rather than through an internalized sense of ethics or from the lens of feeling. Not that Fi would be recklessly emotional or incompetent with logical reasoning, but especially when Ni and Fi come together in union, I've noticed a tendency for it to be very stereotypically "intuitive," more driven by "impulse" (for lack of better word; I don't think this properly describes what I was looking for, but it is specifically in that Ni "visionary" sense where you are clearly self directed but not necessarily in touch with the direction if that makes sense). You seem to have a strong logic and structure behind what you do and why you do things as well as the backdrop for tying to understand that, hence I say Ti. With Ni > Ti > probably Fi > Other functions, I'd probably say INTP.
 

Koto

Blue
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May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I completely agree with [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] 's typing of you (5w4 > 4w5 especially; I definitely see the 4, but you don't seem to have a relationship with shame in the same way that a 4 would tend to). I also can relate to a lot of your responses (although I do not possess an ounce of sx lol), probably because of the 59 combo and, I would assert, presence of Ti. I'm always a bit skeptical of people who type themselves as 5w4 considering how often people mistype as such, but you are clearly one.

By dichotomy, I would probably agree that you don't have a massive preference for T or F, but I think that INTP would be more fitting (as well as Ni-Ti over Ni-Fi; I saw before that you had listed yourself as both at some point). As Lumi mentioned, you have a preference for objective reasoning over personal, but I've also noticed that, while you mention having a strong sense of ethics and having struggled with emotional or aggressive outbursts, your sense of ethics and worldview as a whole seem to be formulated primarily through analysis and subjective logical reasoning rather than through an internalized sense of ethics or from the lens of feeling. Not that Fi would be recklessly emotional or incompetent with logical reasoning, but especially when Ni and Fi come together in union, I've noticed a tendency for it to be very stereotypically "intuitive," more driven by "impulse" (for lack of better word; I don't think this properly describes what I was looking for, but it is specifically in that Ni "visionary" sense where you are clearly self directed but not necessarily in touch with the direction if that makes sense). You seem to have a strong logic and structure behind what you do and why you do things as well as the backdrop for tying to understand that, hence I say Ti. With Ni > Ti > probably Fi > Other functions, I'd probably say INTP.

Thanks for the insights, they're all appreciated. I admit that I don't place a lot of emphasis on tritype, so the possibility of being 594 > 549 is a very real one; I'll do some deliberating over it and see if I come back with any conclusive answers or not. As for the INTP vs INFP points, I mostly agree with what you've said, however there are a few points I want to elaborate on in the interest of giving each side a fair chance. Regarding objective reasoning vs personal, I think that my preference is quite situational, and that with higher stakes situations I tend to lean more on the latter than the former if anything. A better way of putting it would be that what I want has the last say/is usually the deciding factor, but that also tends to align with what I consider to be the decision that makes the most sense.

I've noticed a tendency for it to be very stereotypically "intuitive," more driven by "impulse"

I relate very strongly to this actually, I find it interesting that I come across as having a strong logical framework if you will behind my decisions because I don't feel that way at all internally. I tend to just do what 'feels right' first and then afterwards I'm usually able to find the logic within my actions. Answering the questionnaire took a pretty long time because of this actually; figuring out what I'd do or what my initial response is wasn't hard at all but trying to come up with a justification as to why that is took quite a bit of reflection. Ti feels more like an external tool that I'm skilled at using more often than not, and Fi feels less like a tool and more like an internal instinct if that makes sense, but that makes it harder for me to recognise when I'm engaging with it. A better analogy may be like comparing a passive effect in a game (Fi) to an tactical effect that has to be deployed (Ti). I tend to willingly engage myself in more Ti-based activities though, which is another factor to consider.

Idk, I also feel as though an core 5 INTP/NiTi would be more easily recognisable as such? It isn't as though they would be devoid of emotionality or anything of that matter, but rather that a clear preference for Ti over Fi would be more typical due to the (admittedly surface level) similarities between Ti and 5. A couple of people have suggested INTP 4/INFP 5 as a way of explaining the blurred lines and I don't disagree, though I would be more inclined towards the latter than the former, and most seem to agree on 5 core too. Feel free to share any more thoughts you may have on the matter, I'm just speculating here after all.
 

RadicalDoubt

Alongside Questionable Clarity
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,828
MBTI Type
TiSi
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Thanks for the insights, they're all appreciated. I admit that I don't place a lot of emphasis on tritype, so the possibility of being 594 > 549 is a very real one; I'll do some deliberating over it and see if I come back with any conclusive answers or not. As for the INTP vs INFP points, I mostly agree with what you've said, however there are a few points I want to elaborate on in the interest of giving each side a fair chance. Regarding objective reasoning vs personal, I think that my preference is quite situational, and that with higher stakes situations I tend to lean more on the latter than the former if anything. A better way of putting it would be that what I want has the last say/is usually the deciding factor, but that also tends to align with what I consider to be the decision that makes the most sense.
This is fair. What you mention I think is pretty characteristic of both Ji's, especially since higher stake situations are more stress inducing anyways.

I relate very strongly to this actually, I find it interesting that I come across as having a strong logical framework if you will behind my decisions because I don't feel that way at all internally. I tend to just do what 'feels right' first and then afterwards I'm usually able to find the logic within my actions. Answering the questionnaire took a pretty long time because of this actually; figuring out what I'd do or what my initial response is wasn't hard at all but trying to come up with a justification as to why that is took quite a bit of reflection. Ti feels more like an external tool that I'm skilled at using more often than not, and Fi feels less like a tool and more like an internal instinct if that makes sense, but that makes it harder for me to recognise when I'm engaging with it. A better analogy may be like comparing a passive effect in a game (Fi) to an tactical effect that has to be deployed (Ti). I tend to willingly engage myself in more Ti-based activities though, which is another factor to consider.

Idk, I also feel as though an core 5 INTP/NiTi would be more easily recognisable as such? It isn't as though they would be devoid of emotionality or anything of that matter, but rather that a clear preference for Ti over Fi would be more typical due to the (admittedly surface level) similarities between Ti and 5. A couple of people have suggested INTP 4/INFP 5 as a way of explaining the blurred lines and I don't disagree, though I would be more inclined towards the latter than the former, and most seem to agree on 5 core too. Feel free to share any more thoughts you may have on the matter, I'm just speculating here after all.
This is fascinating, you make a decent point about the tool/vs instinct thing. If Fi is more "natural/instinctual" I could definitely be wrong about my ordering (in my mind, that would put points on Fi > Ti).

As for your second comment, I think your speculation is fair. Although you're 5, core you are definitely w4 (and you lean decently onto it despite, I'd still argue, being shame last). 5w4 in general tends to appear pseudo INTJ I find (With Ni-Te-Fi or Ni-Fi-etc fitting "best" since 5 tends to pair very well with Ni and Tx and 4 with Fi and, by axes definitions, Te-Fi). I don't think either Ni-Ti or Ni-Fi would super obvious with 5w4 in particular. With your definition of INFP 5 (being primarily dichotomy based), I think it could potentially work, as you seem INxP in general. It'll be interesting to watch you as you continue to be semi-active on the forum; It might be more revealing long-term as to function usage. I don't necessarily have much insight at the moment for which works better outside of what I've already mentioned.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
46,860
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I relate very strongly to this actually, I find it interesting that I come across as having a strong logical framework if you will behind my decisions because I don't feel that way at all internally. I tend to just do what 'feels right' first and then afterwards I'm usually able to find the logic within my actions. Answering the questionnaire took a pretty long time because of this actually; figuring out what I'd do or what my initial response is wasn't hard at all but trying to come up with a justification as to why that is took quite a bit of reflection. Ti feels more like an external tool that I'm skilled at using more often than not, and Fi feels less like a tool and more like an internal instinct if that makes sense, but that makes it harder for me to recognise when I'm engaging with it. A better analogy may be like comparing a passive effect in a game (Fi) to an tactical effect that has to be deployed (Ti). I tend to willingly engage myself in more Ti-based activities though, which is another factor to consider.

Idk, I also feel as though an core 5 INTP/NiTi would be more easily recognisable as such? It isn't as though they would be devoid of emotionality or anything of that matter, but rather that a clear preference for Ti over Fi would be more typical due to the (admittedly surface level) similarities between Ti and 5. A couple of people have suggested INTP 4/INFP 5 as a way of explaining the blurred lines and I don't disagree, though I would be more inclined towards the latter than the former, and most seem to agree on 5 core too. Feel free to share any more thoughts you may have on the matter, I'm just speculating here after all.

It's interesting to hear you say it, since I'm INTP 5w4 (549 or 594, I seem to bounce between the two over time) and can do a point comparison here.

Basically as Ti primary, for many years (childhood on) I was pretty dominated by not having preferences and only making decisions / taking action after the logic was completed to figure out how I should respond or what I should do about something. I mean, I always had a great fantasy life but was very much stuck by default in this "processing" mode to have an opinion about anything, so it really wasn't an opinion but a "logical conclusion" and if logic could not pop out an answer, I could not just easily pick one. I also never really had problems with questionnaires like these because I had a very rational process developed by which I reached my conclusion and it's just a matter of quickly writing it out, boom.... unless there are multiple outcomes or my rational process couldn't reach an answer, and then I'm left spinning wheels.

Many years of lifetime later (i.e., via experience), I came to develop opinions and actually recognize my feelings/intuitions about things (or maybe better to say I actually gave them credibility and recognized they had value and foundation). I had intuitions all through but I never felt comfortable leaping ahead with them unless I had vetted them rationally. I feel more integrated nowadays and trust my intuition and feelings more.

It sounds like you trusted your intuition much earlier in life, not the rational process per se even if you realized after the fact that rationality supported your intuitive leaps. To describe you I'd be more inclined as you are saying to look for something that leads with an intuitive process (whether gut or feeling) but that provides some rational skills tied to it.
 

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
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IN
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sx/sp
This is fair. What you mention I think is pretty characteristic of both Ji's, especially since higher stake situations are more stress inducing anyways.


This is fascinating, you make a decent point about the tool/vs instinct thing. If Fi is more "natural/instinctual" I could definitely be wrong about my ordering (in my mind, that would put points on Fi > Ti).

As for your second comment, I think your speculation is fair. Although you're 5, core you are definitely w4 (and you lean decently onto it despite, I'd still argue, being shame last). 5w4 in general tends to appear pseudo INTJ I find (With Ni-Te-Fi or Ni-Fi-etc fitting "best" since 5 tends to pair very well with Ni and Tx and 4 with Fi and, by axes definitions, Te-Fi). I don't think either Ni-Ti or Ni-Fi would super obvious with 5w4 in particular. With your definition of INFP 5 (being primarily dichotomy based), I think it could potentially work, as you seem INxP in general. It'll be interesting to watch you as you continue to be semi-active on the forum; It might be more revealing long-term as to function usage. I don't necessarily have much insight at the moment for which works better outside of what I've already mentioned.

I also don't really have too much to add to what you've said honestly, I agree with your takes on 5w4 and its correlations from a more conventional stacking standpoint, and overall I think you've done a pretty good job at outlining my character, so thank you. I started a blog yesterday and talked about the INTP vs INFP test there so you can check it out if you like, but yeah, I look forward to continuing to be active here.
 

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It's interesting to hear you say it, since I'm INTP 5w4 (549 or 594, I seem to bounce between the two over time) and can do a point comparison here.

Triple withdrawn gang amirite, but honestly I don't think the order is all too important overall as the distinctions are pretty minor between the two.

It sounds like you trusted your intuition much earlier in life, not the rational process per se even if you realized after the fact that rationality supported your intuitive leaps. To describe you I'd be more inclined as you are saying to look for something that leads with an intuitive process (whether gut or feeling) but that provides some rational skills tied to it.

Yup, that's me 100%. At school I was the kid that knew all the answers but couldn't initially codify the process of reaching said answers; certain things just seemed to make sense and from there I'd have to work backwards and parse out the step-by-step process.

Basically as Ti primary, for many years (childhood on) I was pretty dominated by not having preferences and only making decisions / taking action after the logic was completed to figure out how I should respond or what I should do about something. I mean, I always had a great fantasy life but was very much stuck by default in this "processing" mode to have an opinion about anything, so it really wasn't an opinion but a "logical conclusion" and if logic could not pop out an answer, I could not just easily pick one. I also never really had problems with questionnaires like these because I had a very rational process developed by which I reached my conclusion and it's just a matter of quickly writing it out, boom.... unless there are multiple outcomes or my rational process couldn't reach an answer, and then I'm left spinning wheels.

Many years of lifetime later (i.e., via experience), I came to develop opinions and actually recognize my feelings/intuitions about things (or maybe better to say I actually gave them credibility and recognized they had value and foundation). I had intuitions all through but I never felt comfortable leaping ahead with them unless I had vetted them rationally. I feel more integrated nowadays and trust my intuition and feelings more.

I wonder if socionics plays a role here, since being Ti dominant in both systems points to a person that is going to be quite inclined to systemise things in a consistent logical framework (which seems consistent with what you've written), whereas I definitely don't see myself as being so logically rigorous and instead rely more upon my instincts and feel less confident in my ability to reason things out. A funny example of this is in chess actually, it's a pretty logical game obviously and requires a lot of strategy, but generally I tend to take the stance of 'haha chess piece goes brrr' and most of the time it works out, though I'm not going to be a grandmaster anytime soon.
 

Vendrah

New forum night mode looks cool!
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,768
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NP
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952
[MENTION=42092]Koto[/MENTION] I don't think I have anything to add that is not what I said to you at the start of this week and last week in private or what has been said on this thread.

If you are really in doubt between thinking and feeling, which is totally okay, you might either wait a higher age, but at least for the moment using the combos are the right way to go. INFP 5 or INTP 4 are the way to go for you in my own opinion. Both are actual Ni doms when you separate functions from attitude type (E/I) from functions, specially INFP 5, because 5 can't have inferior Thinking and INTP 4 is expected to not have inferior feeling as a 4 for most cases, although that can happen. So INFP 5 or INTP 4 would be the way to go.

Now, I didn't realized you were only 19, I thought you were on your 20's.. Look, as you might know, our generation does struggle in many ways and you are definitely going to find people who are struggling here with many frustrations, and one of the reasons is because we have less expectancy to succeed than our parents, and, well, most people here are even on a developed countries and although many bad things are said of US life on the politics forum, most people on the US are still priviliged when compared to other countries even taking account the issues with debt. So, in an horrible scenary like this that is even manipulated by media that everything is our fault regardless of luck playing a major role, taking a profession route, specially in a university, in arts, is unreasonable even if you are on the US, because it is going to be even more tough than it already normally is. You never said you pretend to be an artist as a profession, but I strongly recommend to take it as a hobby only (some people in one way or another here have it as a hobby anyway). I don't mean to upset you, but I mean to discourage you before you enter that route, sorry if I sound harsh.
 

Koto

Blue
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
291
MBTI Type
IN
Enneagram
5/4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
[MENTION=42092]Koto[/MENTION] I don't think I have anything to add that is not what I said to you at the start of this week and last week in private or what has been said on this thread.

If you are really in doubt between thinking and feeling, which is totally okay, you might either wait a higher age, but at least for the moment using the combos are the right way to go. INFP 5 or INTP 4 are the way to go for you in my own opinion. Both are actual Ni doms when you separate functions from attitude type (E/I) from functions, specially INFP 5, because 5 can't have inferior Thinking and INTP 4 is expected to not have inferior feeling as a 4 for most cases, although that can happen. So INFP 5 or INTP 4 would be the way to go.

Now, I didn't realized you were only 19, I thought you were on your 20's.. Look, as you might know, our generation does struggle in many ways and you are definitely going to find people who are struggling here with many frustrations, and one of the reasons is because we have less expectancy to succeed than our parents, and, well, most people here are even on a developed countries and although many bad things are said of US life on the politics forum, most people on the US are still priviliged when compared to other countries even taking account the issues with debt. So, in an horrible scenary like this that is even manipulated by media that everything is our fault regardless of luck playing a major role, taking a profession route, specially in a university, in arts, is unreasonable even if you are on the US, because it is going to be even more tough than it already normally is. You never said you pretend to be an artist as a profession, but I strongly recommend to take it as a hobby only (some people in one way or another here have it as a hobby anyway). I don't mean to upset you, but I mean to discourage you before you enter that route, sorry if I sound harsh.

Nice to see you back Vendrah :)

With all due respect, it's pretty much impossible to discourage me from pursuing music, whether it's the most logically sound decision or not. I'm not all too willing to go into the details but in essence, there's very little else I could see myself doing that would be anywhere near as satisfying, and I have confidence in my ability to find a way to get by one way or another. That aside though, I appreciate your desire to look out for me, and I figured that you'd be inclined to go with INFP 5 for me as well. Also yeah, I'm generally assumed to be older than I am.
 
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