In addition to what you've said here, even if this were to come about, it'd only further support the idea that psychological education is important, considering that's the very thing that actually aims to work through the underlying problems that can be seen in the concerns that Dareyth has expressed that she has. Some examples are conflict resolution, emotion management, healthy and effective communication, empathizing and listening to others, and not simply invalidating their side.This is becoming vague almost to the point of tautology, and I didn't need to assume your thoughts to explain mine. You can decide whether you agree with them or not. Even in the realm of ideas, it is simplistic to assume animosity among people with different opinions, or monolithic thought within a group sharing similar opinions.
Everything talked about here only further supports the idea that education IS needed in this particular instance. What's essentially being implied here is that people need to learn healthier ways to navigate disagreements and conflicts; effective emotional coping skills so that they manage their anger more appropriately, which helps to prevent emotional reactions that go too far, and it enables people to actually present and express their concerns, feelings, opinions, judgment, etc. appropriately and without all of this hostility described; empathy, which promotes listening and understanding (and should be taught to children early on because if you look at narcissism as an example, it's not born, it's made, and this is in part done through kids not learning empathy and by parents neglecting the child's emotional needs while recognizing and promoting achievements). The very thing that's being rejected here is the one thing that would actually offer solutions to the problems that are presented in this argument.Dareyth said:The problem isn't in how we think, but how we deal with different thoughts outside of our own that we disagree with. Humans generally demonize the outgroup and rationalize unfounded beliefs as to why they could possibly believe it. That there, lies in the problems. Humans stopped seeing people as humans. They only see them as flaws, or something that is stupid/needs to be educated. Instead of respecting them as an individual of equal quality, and intellect.
Furthermore, I honestly don't think that this is a catch 22 at all if you're not thinking of things in black and white, all or nothing (no offense, just examining all of this as only information, as if it were only a puzzle, not as some kind of personal fault or something). The reason is that there are some times when education genuinely is needed in response to someone being incorrect, and what's being implied here is that it's somehow wrong to hold or share that opinion, or suggest education as a solution to what someone perceives as misalignment with the truth. If someone says, "COVID-19 is not contagious," it's very appropriate and helpful to suggest education as a solution. It's something we know for a fact is completely false. The problem doesn't lie in saying that some idea is wrong and that the people who disagree need to be educated, but in poorly managed emotion (anger, frustration, impatience, etc.) causing people to express that opinion in inappropriate ways and to navigate these disagreements in inappropriate ways.
Tbh, it reminds me of toddlers. Toddlers throw tantrums and act out, but as part of the growing process they need to learn that it's no longer appropriate to use emotional reactions as communication the way they did as a baby, they now have to advance beyond this phase of development. Hopefully, they're also being taught that using their words and being well behaved is a more effective method for getting the results they want by seeing that the parents aren't succumbing to their feelings from the tantrums and that it's also easier for their needs/wants to be met when the parent actually know what the child needs/wants.
Out of time for now, I'll reply to other things later...but I will quickly add
What I was really trying to say when I used the word "normal" was more along the lines of healthy VS unhealthy...understanding that things like gaslighting, incest, punching the kid, spanking them so much and so hard that they're bruised and bleeding by the end of it, etc. are not normal or acceptable no matter what your culture is. In my original post I provided a link to a post that was written by a girl who was taught at a young age by her parents to perform sexual acts on her father and didn't know it was abnormal until she left home to go to college, so much that this did not stop until then. They told her she would die without her "medicine" (his semen) and needed to "take her medicine every day." If she had known something was wrong and had a safe place to tell someone (counselor at school) years of damage could've been avoided and she could've gone through therapy as a kid for what already took place rather than shaping her life all the way into adulthood, affecting her relationships in adulthood, etc.Aerix referenced the idea of teaching kids what is "normal" as well, but as you point out, normal will vary with culture. At times kids were taught it wasn't "normal" if their mother worked outside the home, especially in a well-paying position of authority. Some kids today are still being told it isn't "normal" to have two dads or two moms. I like instead the focus on what is good for the child. Working mothers and same sex parents cannot be shown to be harmful for children, for instance, and in some cases have been shown to have benefits.
Whether two parents of the same sex is harmful or not is very controversial, but you wouldn't go to therapy and have a therapist say "whoa, wait, that's not normal, let's work on you getting away from that toxic situation for your own well-being." I'd definitely never suggest that this should begin happening, either. This should really be left up to parents and not included in schools.
Where I see a problem with things is in topics like transgenderism, which psychologists and some parents may have vastly different views on. As a solution to things like this, parent permission could be required beforehand for the child to participate.
Culture was mostly (but not completely) irrelevant to my suggestions, as I was not suggesting that people should be taught how to think or behave to that extent. My idea was more along the lines of things like...
- "This is what abuse is, and it's not okay for you to be treated like this."
- "Here are some coping strategies to use when you're being bullied at school (rather than so many kids going to school and shooting people or going home and committing suicide)."
- "Your parents fighting with each other all the time is not your fault. Don't blame yourself."
- "This is what healthy romantic relationships look like (including normal arguing) and what kinds of behaviors are toxic (compare to name calling, attacking self-esteem, excessive aggression, coercion, domestic violence, etc)."
- "How to change negative thinking and defeat your inner critic."
- "Self-acceptance and other keys to healthy self-esteem and self-image (you are not stupid, worthless, undeserving of good things, etc.)."
- "What kinds of things are safe to base your sense of value for yourself on (like being a kind person), and what should you avoid basing it on (like receiving approval, validation from others, and conditional love)"
- "What are some good habits that can help you stay positive and happy (such as thinking of things you're grateful for, setting and accomplishing goals, exercise, doing little things that make you feel good about yourself - whatever that may be, not doing things that make you feel bad about yourself such as being too lazy, etc.)"
- "Being mindful of your values when dealing with people in authority (Milgram)"
- "How to recognize when your empathy is being taken advantage of (avoiding being an enabler, giving more chances than you should, etc.)"
- "Effective coping strategies for difficult things everyone goes through such as breakups, deaths"
- "Friendship building skills"
- "How to deal with difficult people"
- "Ways you can assert your boundaries without aggression (not peer pressure only, but it's one example)"
- "Healing your insecurities"
- "Recognizing and dealing with your things that trigger you"
- "Guarding yourself from emotional manipulation"
- "Compromising and negotiating"
- "How to get through teenage difficulties like finding who you are and what your place in the world is"
- "Coping with stress in healthy ways"
I don't think I need to add more, you get my point.
I have more thoughts I'd like to add to other things on this thread later as well.