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Random Star Trek thoughts

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I can see why Wesley Crusher was so hated. I'm making my way for the first season, and he's almost always right about everything, and everything else is wrong. I think the character would have been received if they'd had him make mistakes and occasionally be wrong because of inexperience, while still having moments where his underestimated because of his age. From what I've read, it sounds like they "fix" the character in later seasons. Would that be accurate?
 

Totenkindly

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I can see why Wesley Crusher was so hated. I'm making my way for the first season, and he's almost always right about everything, and everything else is wrong. I think the character would have been received if they'd had him make mistakes and occasionally be wrong because of inexperience, while still having moments where his underestimated because of his age. From what I've read, it sounds like they "fix" the character in later seasons. Would that be accurate?

Been a long time since I have watched TNG so my memory is vague... but I think your overall impression is correct.

First season, Wesley was notorious for being the wunderkin who would solve a lot of the problems despite being a mewling twerp. "Wesley saves the ship" is the standard joke cliche, annoying the rest of the other bridge crew. They did not have much nuance with it either -- but Star Trek TV never was that nuanced honestly, so what did people expect? It didn't really want to get into the weeds with character, it was happier to have more archetypal characters and tell weekly stories through that.

They tried to tone this down in later seasons, even by reducing Wheaton's appearances / role, although he still had some episodes focused on him. So yes, it did improve. There's a lot of first season stuff they were "testing out" -- for example, the Ferengi were being promoted as the next big bad race but were kind of a joke, I think DSN really locked into how to play the Ferengi. And so on.

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I have been watching Lower Decks.

I don't think it's a game changer, but I find it amusing typically. And it's nice that it's an "official" thing, so it's like Trek making fun of Trek rather than taking itself so seriously.
 

Doctor Anaximander

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Wesley is much more tolerable in season 2.

They even give him some decent character growth. Oddly enough, his best episodes were the three return guest appearances. The Game, The First Duty, and Journey’s End. All top tier episodes

If only they’d devoted such attention to his character during his tenure. That Jonathan Brandis character from SeaQuest was way more relatable and interesting
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Tasha Yar's death really is quite lame. I've thought that many of the later episodes in season 1 were vast improvements. The characters were better defined and they seemed to have stopped relying on Wesley to save the day despite nobody listening to him at first. But this episode, "Skin of Evil" wasn't that good. The concept itself didn't feel that Star Trek.... it seemed like something that belonged in the fantasy genre.. or perhaps Star Wars. It just didn't seem to really belong in this universe. The one good thing about this episode was that I felt like it gave a decent amount of stuff for Troi to do; she was pretty well handled here.

I also got really tired of watching the ooze slowly form a goo man.
 

Doctor Anaximander

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Tasha Yar's death really is quite lame. I've thought that many of the later episodes in season 1 were vast improvements. The characters were better defined and they seemed to have stopped relying on Wesley to save the day despite nobody listening to him at first. But this episode, "Skin of Evil" wasn't that good. The concept itself didn't feel that Star Trek.... it seemed like something that belonged in the fantasy genre.. or perhaps Star Wars. It just didn't seem to really belong in this universe. The one good thing about this episode was that I felt like it gave a decent amount of stuff for Troi to do; she was pretty well handled here.

I also got really tired of watching the ooze slowly form a goo man.

Have you gotten to Conspiracy and The Neutral Zone yet? Those two stand out for me in season one
 

Doctor Anaximander

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And captain frasier wanted revenge on riker for boning lilith in that one episode
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Have you gotten to Conspiracy and The Neutral Zone yet? Those two stand out for me in season one

Not yet.

As I said before, I think lot of the later season one episodes are better than the earlier ones, though, with the exception of "skin of evil." One thing I didn't mention yet is that I think the premises are more interesting and they do more with them. I really liked the episode with the crystal aliens, for instance; it was a bit like "Devil in the Dark".
 

Doctor Anaximander

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Not yet.

As I said before, I think lot of the later season one episodes are better than the earlier ones, though, with the exception of "skin of evil." One thing I didn't mention yet is that I think the premises are more interesting and they do more with them. I really liked the episode with the crystal aliens, for instance; it was a bit like "Devil in the Dark".

I like the one with the time distortions too. It’s kind of creepy, but the first time I saw that episode I was also extremely stoned so maybe it was worse than I remembered
 

Totenkindly

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Yeah, the time stuff and "Skin of Evil" were types of episodes I still remember. Skin of Evil was a great concept, based on the scapegoat practice.

Or "The Survivors" from season 3 -- pretty haunting. Entire episode built around a concept but pretty effectively.
 

Doctor Anaximander

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I also like that Voyager was a smaller ship. I don’t think I could’ve stood another show on a luxury liner
 

Doctor Anaximander

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I remember reading a funny article on ex astric Scientia about how the crew count on voyager stays consistent for seven seasons despite them frequently losing yellowshirts.

Perhaps it would have been cooler if they picked up more passengers to compensate for dwindling crew--forced to recruit delta quadrant aliens to help keep the ship running. Or maybe over time we could have seen Voyager forming alliances with other ships, so eventually it would be a mini fleet led by voyager
 

Doctor Anaximander

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anyway, if I overlook all those inconsistencies and resets, I enjoy Voyager. I wonder why they didn't just make it a show about a long range exploration ship exploring the outer reaches of federation space? That could explain why they're not always in contact with Starfleet, but then they'd still close enough to the occasional deep space starbase to be able to explain why the ship magically repairs itself and maintains a consistent crew count every week

basically it would be a retread of TOS and the first couple seasons of TNG (seems like they run into other Starfleet ships less and are more focused on exploration in those early seasons), but I mean, it was basically already a retread the way they ended up executing it

OR they could've brought the crew home about season 3 or 4, then had them assigned to deep space exploration in the beta quadrant (it frustrates me that this quadrant is barely ever mentioned in any series because parts of the UFP and huge chunks of Klingon and Romulan territory actually extend into Beta Quadrant space IIRC. Actually I remember reading that based on the distances travelled by season 7 of voyager, they should have already been in the most distant reaches of the beta quadrant by the end of the show. But apparently it was thought that this would confuse viewers and the show HAD to be about the delta quadrant, so they just avoided mentioning beta quadrant. But in my head canon, they have crossed into the beta by season 7
 

Doctor Anaximander

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Why is it that the Enterprise is always the only ship in range of some doomsday object headed for Earth? Wouldn’t Starfleet keep a defense force stationed at their Capital world?
 

Doctor Anaximander

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I rewatch Star Trek III more often than I rewatch Star Trek II. I think I watched II so much when I was younger that i got sick of it. III is really underrated and I thought that old rule that odd numbered Trek movies sucked was exaggerated. III isn’t bad, it just has the unfortunate status of coming between two superior films.

Of all the Trek movies I have encountered in my travels, It’s one of the most.....human....
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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What's up with the genetically enhanced children in Unnatual Selection? Not only is it weird that these scientists are experimenting on their kids (apparently), doesn't this fly in way of laws restricting augmentation as a result of the Eugenics Wars?

Why is Dr. Bashir's status as an augment something he needed to keep secret, but designing kids that can read minds and lift things ok? Bashir's case is far less of a big deal than that. Why would giving someone with intellectual disabilities genius level IQ be illegal, but creating kids with superhuman powers ok?

I get the feeling I found a continuity error here...
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Ive rewatched the series so much I watch it through the lens of different literary theories, or what I remmeber of it from college...

(which depending on how you look at it you can see whatever suits your fancy) there are aspects of mental illness, genetic augmentation and sexuality, gender identity etc, that I'll wager are universal...

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how do you remember it? let us nerd out as brothers. :hippie:

I remember that he was born with some kind of intellectual disability and they modified him genetically to make him a genius. His parents wanted him to be successful but it was illegal under Federation law. I don't understand why that would be illegal, though, and the shit they were doing at Darwin station in the episode I mentioned earlier wouldn't be.
 

Totenkindly

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Gonna watch that odo vid but before that I just want to say Star Trek I is a vastly underrated movie and it grows on me more every year. I’d argue Shatner was a far better actor than given credit for, based on his nuanced performances in the first 4 films.

I know everyone already loves Wrath of Khan, but honestly he's so great in that film -- one of the best performances I've seen him give, as an aging Type A captain who is forced to grapple with his growing mortality along with all the mistakes he made in his relationship earlier in life... an ex-SO who keeps at a somewhat cool distance and the son who hates him, and the ways he bucked the system and built enemies over the years. Then the whole ending to the third film, where he loses a lot of things he loved and/or had placed hope in, and trying to find that magic just one more time to save what he can and keep his promises, despite being emotionally gutted...

I can joke about some of his excesses especially earlier in his career, but he knows the character so well and he brings a lot of needed depth in those films. I am still kind of surprised at how good he is.


Edit: I don't know why Search for Spock gets less response from viewers, I remember being just blown away in the theater. It's so freaking awesome when a bunch of aged-out Star Fleet officers steal their old ship and risk their cushy retirement on this crazy chance to help people they love... and honestly, they're all done anyway, and the ship was being retired, so on one level Starfleet doesn't even give a shit but would crack down on them anyway just for breaking the law. And that's all before everything goes down on the genesis planet and we realize with growing horror why the world is reacting as it is.

Just that one bit:

Kirk: My god, Bones -- what have I done? (in agony)
Bones: What you had to do; what you always do; turn death into a fighting chance to live.

My jaw was just swinging open at that, I felt like I had been punched in the gut sitting there in the theater. (I was in high school at the time.)
 

Doctor Anaximander

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McCoy and spock humanize him. I guess McCoy is sort of the Id and Spock is more the Super-ego.

It’s interesting to watch how on edge Kirk is at first in The Motion Picture. He gets the Enterprise back but is out of his element until his two best friends have returned; once they’re back he is relaxed and really seems to take charge. That movie is all about finding one’s humanity. V’ger’s insatiable need to meet “the creator” parallels Kirk’s need to regain his old family. I’m amazed I never really got this when I watched it as a youngin
 

Doctor Anaximander

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There’s this good moment in TOS (I believe it’s in the one where they visit the Roman Empire planet) where McCoy and Spock are locked up together in a cell and Kirk has been taken away, and Spock is trying to figure a way to escape. McCoy comforts Spock and says (paraphrasing) “I’m worried about Jim too”. Those two would never admit it but they loved each other.
 
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