Random Politics Thread

[Red Herring]

They were talking about the glaciers melting when I spent a summer in Cusco in 2006. It's been happening for quite some time.

Well, they obviously have been melting for a while. Climate change has accelerated dramatically since the 1970s (people knew and talked about it for as long as I can remember and I am in my early 40s) but the mechanisms behind it have basically been known since the middle of the 19th century (i. e. when it all started). This has been a long time in the making but largely ignored until fairly recently.

I just mentioned the Andes as an example of a region put under serious risk without actually experiencing real heat as such.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Well, they obviously have been melting for a while. Climate change has accelerated dramatically since the 1970s (people knew and talked about it for as long as I can remember and I am in my early 40s) but the mechanisms behind it have basically been known since the middle of the 19th century (i. e. when it all started). This has been a long time in the making but largely ignored until fairly recently.

I just mentioned the Andes as an example of a region put under serious risk without actually experiencing real heat as such.

Yeah, I remember reading about it a lot in science books as a kid in the 90s.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

But that isn't how this works.
Climate change is preferred term over global warming since there more aspect to it than just temperature. Such as average moisture, the amount of rainfall, how the rainfall is scattered through out the years, how much there will be snow in the mountains that will provide water during warmer periods of the year, sea level, species migration, new invasive species and parasites .... etc. Plus if you are the only one standing all your neighbors will move into your house regardless of what you think about it (or at least they will die trying). Therefore winning the climate change isn't really possible, especially since it will completely disrupt/destroy global economy and supply chains on the long run. Climate change is like nuclear war ... the only way to win is not to play at all.

oh sorry, i'm an idiot. i'll just slowly back out of this thread now.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

oh sorry, i'm an idiot. i'll just slowly back out of this thread now.

Why should you?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Why should you?

because i need to stop chiming in on topics for which i am unqualified to be speaking about

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Why should you?

because i need to stop chiming in on topics for which i am unqualified to be speaking about

But that is one way to learn about them.

 

[Virtual ghost]

oh sorry, i'm an idiot. i'll just slowly back out of this thread now.

There is no need for such self hate.
After all I am far from average regarding knowledge about that topic. Therefore I can make people look small. However in my book the topic should the discussed as much as possible. Since that is the only way to present it's complexity and complications that are coming out of it. While the real idiot doesn't even know what Ethiopia is (and he doesn't want to know).

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I also think people who know far less about such topics never seem to hesitate to share their opinions, so I don't see why you shouldn't.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I also think people who know far less about such topics never seem to hesitate to share their opinions, so I don't see why you shouldn't.

Yes, climate change is one of the topics where Dunning–Kruger effect is the most easy to notice. The complexity of the topic simply makes it easy to fall into false sense of security regarding the understanding of the topic. (for those that don't know about that effect they should google it).

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

There is no need for such self hate.
After all I am far from average regarding knowledge about that topic. Therefore I can make people look small. However in my book the topic should the discussed as much as possible. Since that is the only way to present it's complexity and complications that are coming out of it. While the real idiot doesn't even know what Ethiopia is (and he doesn't want to know).

dude, don't worry about it. It just became apparent to me after looking back at my post that it was the equivalent of me asking "wHaT iF wE jUsT tUrNeD rEd iNtO YeLLoW?"

I could've done my research first before spouting off. My problem, not yours.

 

[Virtual ghost]

dude, don't worry about it. It just became apparent to me after looking back at my post that it was the equivalent of me asking "wHaT iF wE jUsT tUrNeD rEd iNtO YeLLoW?"

I could've done my research first before spouting off.

Ok, but that is kinda the core problem here since you can't really do that. There is plenty of deliberate misinformation around and even if you get the real data it often takes a fair amount of knowledge to interpret the data in a right way. Therefore both sides of this debate are usually repeating half true information at best. While Scientists usually keep to themselves or almost no one understands what they are saying since the topic requires knowledge even for entry level. This is exactly why we are in this debate where we are.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Ok, but that is kinda the core problem here since you can't really do that. There is plenty of deliberate misinformation around and even if you get the real data it often takes a fair amount of knowledge to interpret the data in a right way. Therefore both sides of this debate are usually repeating half true information at best. While Scientists usually keep to themselves or almost no one understands what they are saying since the topic requires knowledge even for entry level. This is exactly why we are in this debate where we are.

I assumed oceanic temperature readings over the last few decades was plenty to convince people, but again, I’m not really speaking from a place of understanding and am probably way off

 

[Virtual ghost]

I assumed oceanic temperature readings over the last few decades was plenty to convince people, but again, I’m not really speaking from a place of understanding and am probably way off

That is one of the most convincing parts of the equation. However the average person doesn't know why this is a problem. Which is that this leads into collapse of the food chains in the sea and global starvation. Plus you get plenty of freaky weather everywhere since oceans are one of key factors in climate as we know it. What causes plenty of havoc on the land as well in the end. Severe flash foods are probably the most common outcome in all this. Since warmer water evaporates more quickly and what evaporates must come down somewhere. However if wind patters change due to sea temperature change then you can have winds that carry the water away from certain areas and that causes drought there (while somewhere else you can get double portion of rain). Especially since increased temperature means increased evaporation from the soil as well.

What returns us to the glaciers, which are basically the water towers that melt in warmer part of the year and thus provide water for everything down stream. Therefore when this back up is no more you get drought and plants start to die in mass downstream (especially if the temperature is generally up). What creates even more CO2 as the plants decompose or burn. Especially since now rain is more likely to come as a flash flood and quickly drain back to the sea. Instead to classical slow rain that keeps soil wet. Therefore in the end you get crippled food supply both in the sea and on the ground. What then fuels skyrocketing food prices, regional conflicts for food and water, refuge waves ...... until the world order brakes and you have complete anarchy with collapse of supply chains. Especially since coastal infrastructure floods on regular basis in this scenario (and eventually it even sinks completely).


There are more interconnected factors in here but this is the bottom line regarding climate change.

 

[Red Herring]

That is one of the most convincing parts of the equation. However the average person doesn't know why this is a problem. Which is that this leads into collapse of the food chains in the sea and global starvation. Plus you get plenty of freaky weather everywhere since oceans are one of key factors in climate as we know it. What causes plenty of havoc on the land as well in the end. Severe flash foods are probably the most common outcome in all this. Since warmer water evaporates more quickly and what evaporates must come down somewhere. However if wind patters change due to sea temperature change then you can have winds that carry the water away from certain areas and that causes drought there (while somewhere else you can get double portion of rain). Especially since increased temperature means increased evaporation from the soil as well.

What returns us to the glaciers, which are basically the water towers that melt in warmer part of the year and thus provide water for everything down stream. Therefore when this back up is no more you get drought and plants start to die in mass downstream (especially if the temperature is generally up). What creates even more CO2 as the plants decompose or burn. Especially since now rain is more likely to come as a flash flood and quickly drain back to the sea. Instead to classical slow rain that keeps soil wet. Therefore in the end you get crippled food supply both in the sea and on the ground. What then fuels skyrocketing food prices, regional conflicts for food and water, refuge waves ...... until the world order brakes and you have complete anarchy with collapse of supply chains. Especially since coastal infrastructure floods on regular basis in this scenario (and eventually it even sinks completely).


There are more interconnected factors in here but this is the bottom line regarding climate change.

It's also not just temperature. The increased CO2 levels in the earth atmosphere also impact the pH value of the ocean. My little brother used to contribute to research on the effect of human-induced ocean acidification on the calcification of foraminifera, back when he was still a marine biologist. Basically more CO2 -> less alcaline oceans due to the formation of carbonic acid -> weaker phytoplankton (-> less food for creatures feeding on plankton ...and that's a lot)

 

[Virtual ghost]

It's also not just temperature. The increased CO2 levels in the earth atmosphere also impact the pH value of the ocean. My little brother used to contribute to research on the effect of human-induced ocean acidification on the calcification of foraminifera, back when he was still a marine biologist. Basically more CO2 -> less alcaline oceans due to the formation of carbonic acid -> weaker phytoplankton (-> less food for creatures feeding on plankton ...and that's a lot)

This is one of the other interconnected factors that I mentioned. This is exactly why climate change fits better here than global warming. Since the temperature isn't the only problem.
More acidic ocean is evidently less able to support life as we know it since it messes up the food chains. Upon which half of the world directly depends for diet. So all problems in the end lead into mass starvation of humans.


Another factor is albedo of the ice. Ice reflect more energy back into space as mirror so when it melts more energy is absorbed into the surface and therefore temperature rises. What melts more ice. Which around north pole also contains plenty of methane. Which is about 25 time stronger green house gas than CO2 and that adds another feedback into the mix. Which is why we must be radical in solutions because if the problem is allowed to snowball there is no way we can fix it in time to avoid global catastrophe.

 

[Red Herring]

I like to check the profiles if people who laugh at war crimes or just generally push the Russian narrative.

Some are not surprising (anti-Western African men, pro-Chinese folks from around Asia, far right Westerners and some far left Latinos) but once in a while I come across some real jewels like an unironic flatearther from Chile and a Trump-supporting, antivaxxer in Germany who is obsessed with the legend of King Arthur and thinks Arthur was real, biblical tribes lived in Britain and the British isles never were settled by Romans (it's all a lie by the British monarchy to erase Arthur and Welsh identity and conspired to have Wale's biblical roots erased and spread some fake history instead)

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I like to check the profiles if people who laugh at war crimes or just generally push the Russian narrative.

Some are not surprising (anti-Western African men, pro-Chinese folks from around Asia, far right Westerners and some far left Latinos) but once in a while I come across some real jewels like an unironic flatearther from Chile and a Trump-supporting, antivaxxer in Germany who is obsessed with the legend of King Arthur and thinks Arthur was real, biblical tribes lived in Britain and the British isles never were settled by Romans (it's all a lie by the British monarchy to erase Arthur and Welsh identity and conspired to have Wale's biblical roots erased and spread some fake history instead)

Oh. A British Israelite? (Google it!)

 

[ceecee]

I like to check the profiles if people who laugh at war crimes or just generally push the Russian narrative.

Some are not surprising (anti-Western African men, pro-Chinese folks from around Asia, far right Westerners and some far left Latinos) but once in a while I come across some real jewels like an unironic flatearther from Chile and a Trump-supporting, antivaxxer in Germany who is obsessed with the legend of King Arthur and thinks Arthur was real, biblical tribes lived in Britain and the British isles never were settled by Romans (it's all a lie by the British monarchy to erase Arthur and Welsh identity and conspired to have Wale's biblical roots erased and spread some fake history instead)

I learned, not to long ago) about the Roman Empire Never Existed movement

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/internet/roman-empire-never-existed-tiktok

So it makes sense someone would think the Romans were never in Britain.

Although my favorite for the moment is https://www.cbsnews.com/video/sunday-on-60-minutes-birds-arent-real/

The fact that CBS gave this any oxygen is right on brand though.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I learned, not to long ago) about the Roman Empire Never Existed movement

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/internet/roman-empire-never-existed-tiktok

So it makes sense someone would think the Romans were never in Britain.

Although my favorite for the moment is https://www.cbsnews.com/video/sunday-on-60-minutes-birds-arent-real/

The fact that CBS gave this any oxygen is right on brand though.

This kind of stuff is why I said in the start: if Biden doesn't do plenty to improve education system his term will in the end be a fail. Since that is the foundation on which everything stands: economy, infrastructure, foreign policy, security/crime rate etc. But supposedly only 3% of US thinks this a real priority.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Also after all shifts, polls, elections and election law changes in the last 18 months the map should look something like this.