Random political thought thread.

[The Cat]

Think.​

 

[Virtual ghost]

I've seen governments use this technique before. I predict come say, 2032, most nations will be nowhere near their goal. They will kick the can down the road to 2040 I would guess. Similar game to reducing carbon emissions, promise big, deliver low, make new big promises down the road, repeat.

Although on this specific issue, if Trump and his MAGA descendants are out of power by then, maybe just walk away from the whole thing. However, Russia's actions should inspire some degree of increased defense spending over the next few years.

I am not sure that this will be the case as with climate change. The social atmosphere strikes me differently, especially since even with Trump out of office US will still have growing pile of debt. While the internal turmoil would 't disappear with him ending his term. Therefore Europe objectively has to crate it's own generally independent game in this area. Especially since just about no one trusts Russia after what has happened over the last 3+ years. Kinda the same goes for China that keeps Russia rolling all these time.


Plus in a sense the target isn't 5 percent, the target is 3.5 percent. The remaining 1.5 is for supporting infrastructure that should keep the logistics working in emergency, scientific research, cybersecurity ... etc. In other words these are the stuff you need anyway if you plan to live in 21th century.

 

[The Cat]

Call a moron a coward enough and he'll do something moronic enough to cost lives. Like a coward.​

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am not sure that this will be the case as with climate change. The social atmosphere strikes me differently, especially since even with Trump out of office US will still have growing pile of debt. While the internal turmoil would 't disappear with him ending his term. Therefore Europe objectively has to crate it's own generally independent game in this area. Especially since just about no one trusts Russia after what has happened over the last 3+ years. Kinda the same goes for China that keeps Russia rolling all this time.

Germany backs major NATO defense spending boost — but not to please Trump

As I was saying.

 

[The Cat]

P resident Loser.​

 

[SensEye]

Spain sure did it wrong. They were honest and just said 'no way'. Now Trump is on the tariff warpath against them. They should have just set a 2035 target and then failed to meet it. Trump should be gone by then, although an acolyte with a similar attitude may still hold the office.

 

[Red Herring]

Spain sure did it wrong. They were honest and just said 'no way'. Now Trump is on the tariff warpath against them. They should have just set a 2035 target and then failed to meet it. Trump should be gone by then, although an acolyte with a similar attitude may still hold the office.

There's interior politics as well. Sanchez' government is shaky as it is and making a promise to NATO that a considerable part, if not the majority, of the Spanish people - or his voters - would hate him for might be the last drop.

 

[Virtual ghost]

There's interior politics as well. Sanchez' government is shaky as it is and making a promise to NATO that a considerable part, if not the majority, of the Spanish people - or his voters - would hate him for might be the last drop.

But there are 2 extra truths in all of this.

Pretty much in all NATO countries most people wouldn't the too thrilled about all of this regarding the 5%. However that doesn't mean that alternative moves would be better on the long run.


From what I have seen the polling for his party is openly falling already. Therefore the odds are that he wouldn't make it through the whole term. Especially since ruling coalition is basically "improvised" from lose fragments (and he needs all of them). Therefore if polling is already going down that means that something is already going wrong. Probably economy and some serious corruption scandals that escalated recently. What means that his actual decisions may not matter all that much in the end. Snap elections are fairly common in Spain.


Just saying.

 

[ygolo]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/26/us/politics/mamdani-black-voters-democrats.html

I don't understand why people are freaking out. I think he's addressing the main issues a city like NY has(cost of living). Ultimately, it should be a good thing.

Edit: He's talking about the right problems. I'm no economist, but universal childcare is a good thing. Rent control and state run groceries may not make sense, but I think his own community will push back if that turns bad.

 

[The Cat]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/26/us/politics/mamdani-black-voters-democrats.html

I don't understand why people are freaking out. I think he's addressing the main issues a city like NY has(cost of living). Ultimately, it should be a good thing.

Edit: He's talking about the right problems. I'm no economist, but universal childcare is a good thing. Rent control and state run groceries may not make sense, but I think his own community will push back if that turns bad.

Corporate Dems "hate" progressives more than they "hate" republicans. If the establishment dems would fight republicans like they fight progressives. We wouldn't be here rn.

Today's centrist Democratic politician is essentially the Moderate Republican of 20 years ago. The Carrot side of the whole Carrot and stick two party system. Recall corporate dems wanted to break up the occupy wallstreet movement just as bad as the republicans did. One party of outrage, one party of consent, and the beat goes on...or at least that's how its always seemed to me.

if you want the really happy news reporting of Mamdani, it aint gonna be in the Times. They're playing the knee bending game.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Some thoughts on the issue.

 

[SensEye]

Hard no IMO.

I was bemused at the end of that video where the comment was if the democrats pivoted left and it was perceived as inauthentic it would probably backfire.

If you have to sit down with party strategists to decide what will be perceived as authentic, the end result by definition will not be authentic but rather strategic.

Coumo is a known career politician, clearly establishment, and a bit of a dirt bag. That's why he lost. I expect the new guy will fail spectacularly once he starts to govern.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Hard no IMO.

I was bemused at the end of that video where the comment was if the democrats pivoted left and it was perceived as inauthentic it would probably backfire.

If you have to sit down with party strategists to decide what will be perceived as authentic, the end result by definition will not be authentic but rather strategic.

Coumo is a known career politician, clearly establishment, and a bit of a dirt bag. That's why he lost. I expect the new guy will fail spectacularly once he starts to govern.

The odds are that this guy will fail. However in my opinion that is because average American isn't mentally ready to make left wing economic policies work. They all for the most part think that they can have strong welfare state and that they can keep all of their habits just as they are. However this isn't how it works. Since this can't work if the people and the system aren't in the sync for the most part, because things have to add up. From protecting your personal health 24/7 (to make sure redistribution efficient), there have to be higher taxes to avoid deficits, all the science and technical stuff have to add up (so random personal opinions don't have too much weight) ... etc.


Plus to be honest: I don't know who is on the red side. If they put forwards some pro business kinda centrist guy I can see Coumo voters going red in larger numbers. What makes it questionable who will win. If I am not mistaken the current mayor will also run as an independent. Therefore this is all far from clear picture regarding who will take the big chair.

 

[Coriolis]

Hard no IMO.

I was bemused at the end of that video where the comment was if the democrats pivoted left and it was perceived as inauthentic it would probably backfire.

If you have to sit down with party strategists to decide what will be perceived as authentic, the end result by definition will not be authentic but rather strategic.

Coumo is a known career politician, clearly establishment, and a bit of a dirt bag. That's why he lost. I expect the new guy will fail spectacularly once he starts to govern.

The most authentic and relatable democrats ARE on the left. People like AOC, Bernie Sanders, new folks like Deja Foxx, etc. They have been consistent and genuine from day 1. It is the centrist democrats who do the calculating and strategising, sometimes with the good intention of dealmaking or compromise in the public interests, but more often than not with no greater ambition than getting (re)elected.

Democrats need to stop being afraid of the most progressive elements of their agenda, and the politicians who champion them. This is what distinguishes them from republicans and from waffling centrists who pander to corporations for support. This is what energizes progressive voters to come out and vote. Perhaps paradoxically it also has a greater chance of getting through to the portion of Trump's base that is just fed up with politics as usual, because that never brought them anything. There is a reason both Trump and AOC won her district.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Trump says he’s ‘terminating’ all trade discussions with Canada

 

[ygolo]

The most authentic and relatable democrats ARE on the left. People like AOC, Bernie Sanders, new folks like Deja Foxx, etc. They have been consistent and genuine from day 1. It is the centrist democrats who do the calculating and strategising, sometimes with the good intention of dealmaking or compromise in the public interests, but more often than not with no greater ambition than getting (re)elected.

Democrats need to stop being afraid of the most progressive elements of their agenda, and the politicians who champion them. This is what distinguishes them from republicans and from waffling centrists who pander to corporations for support. This is what energizes progressive voters to come out and vote. Perhaps paradoxically it also has a greater chance of getting through to the portion of Trump's base that is just fed up with politics as usual, because that never brought them anything. There is a reason both Trump and AOC won her district.

I am not running for office anytime soon. But people need to say they believe what they genuinely do, instead of stating what they believe is popular or will win, or the talking points handed down from the party machine. That is what is key to authenticity.

If they believe left wing things, say left wing things. If they believe centrists things, say centrist things, etc.

Say what you believe, try to convince others, allow yourself to be convinced, and I think politics will end in a better place.

The Left wing of the party does not have a monopoly on authenticity, or even progressivism. The core of progressivism is progress after all, and some of the left wing wants to actively stall progress.

There are organizing groups that believe centrist things that are anti-establishment, and authentic as well:

Radically Pragmatic Ideas | Progressive Policy Institute

www.progressivepolicy.org

Make Congress Work!

No Labels is inviting America’s commonsense majority to Make Congress Work. If you are tired of the angriest and most reckless politicians dominating our debate and worried that America lacks commonsense leadership at a moment when we need it most, you will find a home with No Labels.

nolabels.org

As for people, Andrew Yang, Ro Khana, and Ritchie Tores come to mind as people willing to say things that disagree with the establishment.

 

[SensEye]

I am not running for office anytime soon. But people need to say they believe what they genuinely do, instead of stating what they believe is popular or will win, or the talking points handed down from the party machine. That is what is key to authenticity.

If they believe left wing things, say left wing things. If they believe centrists things, say centrist things, etc.

Say what you believe, try to convince others, allow yourself to be convinced, and I think politics will end in a better place.

I agree with this whole heartedly. And for the record, I have a great deal of respect for Sanders. He has been making the same arguments for years. He strikes me as genuine. I don't always agree with his policies (although from the perspective of a Canadian, many of his big items like universal healthcare and economically accessible post secondary education have been standard practice in Canada all my life, and I fully support them). So he is not all that far left from my perspective, although he goes too far for my tastes in some policy areas.

I think the problem is there seems to be no ground for the center in the US these days. I think America really needs a multi-party system. It seems America needs 4 parties IMO. A 'progressive' party that would house the likes of AOC et. al. Two centrist parties that would mimic the more traditional Democrats and Republicans of a few decades ago before everything became so polarized, and a far right party for the MAGA types. This would give people the choices they need, and I think things would eventually shake out in a reasonable fashion. There are no signs this will ever happen though.

The Democrats seem absolutely hopeless as they are torn between the more traditional centrists and the far left progressives, so they can't seem to come up with any sort of reasonable platform. As such, even though I think a large portion of the electorate wants an alternative to Trump, they suffer him as they can't figure out what the hell the Democrats actually stand for these days.

 

[Coriolis]

The most authentic and relatable democrats are on the left, and are also the most authentic. People like AOC, Bernie Sanders, new folks like Deja Foxx, etc. They have been consistent and genuine from day 1. It is the centrist democrats who do the calculating and strategising, sometimes with the good intention of dealmaking or compromise in the public interests, but more often than not with no greater ambition than getting (re)elected.

Democrats need to stop being afraid of the most progressive elements of their agenda, and the politicians who champion them. This is what distinguishes them from republicans and from waffling centrists who pander to corporations for support. This is what energizes progressive voters to come out and vote. Perhaps paradoxically it has a greater chance to getting through to the portion of Trump's base that is just fed up with politics as usual, because that never brought them anything. There is a reason both Trump and AOC won her district.

I agree with this whole heartedly. And for the record, I have a great deal of respect for Sanders. He has been making the same arguments for years. He strikes me as genuine. I don't always agree with his policies (although from the perspective of a Canadian, many of his big items like universal healthcare and economically accessible post secondary education have been standard practice in Canada all my life, and I fully support them). So he is not all that far left from my perspective, although he goes too far for my tastes in some policy areas.

I think the problem is there seems to be no ground for the center in the US these days. I think America really needs a multi-party system. It seems America needs 4 parties IMO. A 'progressive' party that would house the likes of AOC et. al. Two centrist parties that would mimic the more traditional Democrats and Republicans of a few decades ago before everything became so polarized, and a far right party for the MAGA types. This would give people the choices they need, and I think things would eventually shake out in a reasonable fashion. There are no signs this will ever happen though.

The Democrats seem absolutely hopeless as they are torn between the more traditional centrists and the far left progressives, so they can't seem to come up with any sort of reasonable platform. As such, even though I think a large portion of the electorate wants an alternative to Trump, they suffer him as they can't figure out what the hell the Democrats actually stand for these days.

I have been saying that for awhile now. We need centrist democrats, democratic socialists, traditional conservatives like the Republicans used to be, and MAGA-style populists, though shedding the science denial and disrespect for the Constitution would help.

 

[The Cat]

 

[The Cat]