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[NF] Radical Evil in human nature?

Brendan

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Unlike zeitgeist, I am a logician. So I can support what I say with argument. He can not.
No you can't. All you can do, or have done is support your wild suppositions with unprovable suppositions of famous philosophers. Your opinions are worse than reading the bleedy poetry of a suicidal emo teenager, and your writings on this forum would be plagiarism if you published them.
Read some of my essays if you want to see a higher gramatic quality of my writings.
Did someone tattoo "masochist" across my forehead when I wasn't paying attention?
I am puzzled as to why now you're saying you care about someone not so long you ago you've sworn to loathe.
I never swore to loathe you, I just said that you have a tendency to be incredibly annoying, and that I wouldn't sleep with you.
 

SolitaryWalker

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How does a person deriving pleasure from being good cause the good that they do to not be good?

Everybody wants to do good so they can be happy. Some of us just have a twisted view of what good is. Just like a massochist thinks it is good to feel pain.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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If there were no good in the world, why would we be having this discussion? Would it be only because the appearance of good is useful?

As a rhetorical question only, I suggest you look inside your own self. It is true we cannot fully know another person's motivations, but there is compelling and solid reasons to assume there are people with sincerely compassionate motivations. Looking inside yourself, can you find any inclinations towards compassion that are free from immediate benefits? Are you moved to lessen someone's suffering? Do you ever desire strongly to make another person have a good feeling? I've seen plenty in you to support the idea of goodness in people. I'll leave the personal note in the realm of the rhetorical now. :party2:

If one looks deeply enough inside self, it is possible to see a microcosm of humanity. There is some sense of both its cruelties and compassions. Our genetics and environment places outer boundaries on who we have the capacity to be, but we all have some elbow room to self-determine our nature. That is at least my belief based on what I know.
 

SolitaryWalker

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No you can't. All you can do, or have done is support your wild suppositions with unprovable suppositions of famous people. Your writings on this forum would be plagiarism if you published them.

Did someone tattoo "masochist" across my forehead when I wasn't paying attention?

I never swore to loathe you, I just said that you have a tendency to be incredibly annoying, and that I wouldn't sleep with you.



My ideas were not plagiarism. When I quote, I mention the author's name.

When I borrow ideas, I credit the inspirer.

My ideas here are not exactly like Schopenhauer's, as I've mentioned him earlier on, they deviate in a number of ways. But again, I can provide a logical argument to support what I say. You wouldnt know anyways if I could do that, you're no good at logic anyways.

And...you was the one who said that you wanted to have pity sex with SolitaryWalker... it certainly was not my idea...

Zeitgeist oftenly acts out on Intuitive leaps and this is where his ideas come from Ni... I only act out on ideas that I think are logically consistent...
 

cafe

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Everybody wants to do good so they can be happy. Some of us just have a twisted view of what good is. Just like a massochist thinks it is good to feel pain.
So if being good makes people happy, then humanity cannot be totally depraved.
 

SolitaryWalker

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If there were no good in the world, why would we be having this discussion? Would it be only because the appearance of good is useful?

As a rhetorical question only, I suggest you look inside your own self. It is true we cannot fully know another person's motivations, but there is compelling and solid reasons to assume there are people with sincerely compassionate motivations. Looking inside yourself, can you find any inclinations towards compassion that are free from immediate benefits? Are you moved to lessen someone's suffering? Do you ever desire strongly to make another person have a good feeling? I've seen plenty in you to support the idea of goodness in people. I'll leave the personal note in the realm of the rhetorical now. :party2:

If one looks deeply enough inside self, it is possible to see a microcosm of humanity. There is some sense of both its cruelties and compassions. Our genetics and environment places outer boundaries on who we have the capacity to be, but we all have some elbow room to self-determine our nature. That is at least my belief based on what I know.


There is no free will. We are just driven by urges that we do not understand.

Essentially not everything is evil, but selfishness is the root of all human actions. And it is clear that evil has always been propenderous over good... Compassion indeed is the source of all good... yet once more...genuine compassion... one that is not inspired by our selfish urges is extraordinarily rare..
 

SolitaryWalker

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So if being good makes people happy, then humanity cannot be totally depraved.

In a way yes...but again for every 1 good act they pull off they will do 10 times as many evil ones..
 

Siúil a Rúin

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There is no free will. We are just driven by urges that we do not understand.

Essentially not everything is evil, but selfishness is the root of all human actions. And it is clear that evil has always been propenderous over good...

How does evil exist w/o free will? Wouldn't the animal model of behavior be complete for assessing human beings then? How would my initial lighthearted response about feeling kindness towards a violent critter not be spot on in describing human behavior w/o free will?
 

Brendan

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My ideas were not plagiarism. When I quote, I mention the author's name.

When I borrow ideas, I credit the inspirer.

My ideas here are not exactly like Schopenhauer's, as I've mentioned him earlier on, they deviate in a number of ways. But again, I can provide a logical argument to support what I say. You wouldnt know anyways if I could do that, you're no good at logic anyways.
Sure thing. Whatever blows your skirt up, toots.
And...you was the one who said that you wanted to have pity sex with SolitaryWalker... it certainly was not my idea...
:drool:
Zeitgeist oftenly acts out on Intuitive leaps and this is where his ideas come from Ni...
Yeah. That's why I was comparing you to him.
I only act out on ideas that I think are logically consistent...
Yeah. You keep telling yourself that.
 

cafe

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In a way yes...but again for every 1 good act they pull off they will do 10 times as many evil ones..
When you are up poop creek without a paddle that one good act in ten is a mighty welcome sight and I, for one, am not going to fuss about it not being more.
 

SolitaryWalker

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How does evil exist w/o free will? Wouldn't the animal model of behavior be complete for assessing human beings then? How would my initial lighthearted response about feeling kindness towards a violent critter not be spot on in describing human behavior w/o free will?

Yes this was a very good catch. Determinism necessitates an extinction of ethics. That is true, and I am a nihilist.

Virtue Ethics are impossible, we are only taking credit for actions that we did not decide to carry out with. What we understand for the 'self' to be is not evil, it is the urges that fuel it up are. We are at their mercy...
 

SolitaryWalker

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When you are up poop creek without a paddle that one good act in ten is a mighty welcome sight and I, for one, am not going to fuss about it not being more.

Again... so many of you NFs say that life is more than an absurd tragedy... yet noone can support that..
 

cafe

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Again... so many of you NFs say that life is more than an absurd tragedy... yet noone can support that..
IMO, life is a comic tragedy, with little scenes of inspiration sprinkled here and there. I'm aware of the darkness, but I do not refuse to see the light because of it.
 

SolitaryWalker

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IMO, life is a comic tragedy, with little scenes of inspiration sprinkled here and there. I'm aware of the darkness, but I do not refuse to see the light because of it.

Maybe light was only an illusion... and it shall evanesce as our child-like innocence once did?
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Compassion indeed is the source of all good... yet once more...genuine compassion... one that is not inspired by our selfish urges is extraordinarily rare..
What matters most is that it exists at all. That it 'can' exist means everything imo. There is more good and beauty than we often notice. Kindness is quieter than cruelty. Just like sweet smells are softer than rank oders.

That is not to say that good is weaker than evil. You know Nietzsche's use of the dandelion as a metaphor for self and conquest? It is interesting that the dandelion is only an unwanted weed in the eyes of human beings. It provides more nutrition than ordinary grass, it is stronger, hardier, a more reliable food source for many creatures. Nature has made a place for the dandelion because it has more to offer for its existence.

Human beings are fragile and temporary. If we don't find ways to contribute, nature will favor other creatures who can. If we do not respect balance, we will cease in favor of balance. Nature's laws stabilize in the long run.
 

cafe

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Maybe light was only an illusion... and it shall evanesce as our child-like innocence once did?
I was not innocent in my childhood. My life did not allow such luxuries. I am not innocent now. I've seen too much to be so. To deny that there is any light at all is to be as impervious to reality as you seem to believe I am.
 

SolitaryWalker

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What matters most is that it exists at all. That it 'can' exist means everything imo. There is more good and beauty than we often notice. Kindness is quieter than cruelty. Just like sweet smells are softer than rank oders.

.

I will be very grateful to you if you come up with at least one entity to represent good and beauty... or at least one specie of that... and most of all manage to have it stand up to criticism..Because I want to believe in it... I really do..
 

SolitaryWalker

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I was not innocent in my childhood. My life did not allow such luxuries. I am not innocent now. I've seen too much to be so. To deny that there is any light at all is to be as impervious to reality as you seem to believe I am.

I am saying that there will be somethign that you will initially perceive to be good, but you will not realize that it is actually evil in disguise unless you think it through very carefully and thoroughly.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Yeah. You keep telling yourself that.

Just because you dont like this does not mean that it is not logical. You dont know if its logical or not because you cant do dispassionate thinking anyways.

I'd be pretty impressed if I saw you do that just for once..
 

cafe

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I am saying that there will be somethign that you will initially perceive to be good, but you will not realize that it is actually evil in disguise unless you think it through very carefully and thoroughly.
Give some examples, if you please.
 
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