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Ok lets settle this right now!

FranG

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May 1, 2007
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41
MBTI Type
INTJ
SW

INTJs are more analytical (yes they are :D ) then INTPs. Since Ni is abstract which is what analysis is. Analysis is an art not a science. Adding and subtracting is a science. INTJs are better at the former; INTPs the latter. N is abstract and T concrete.
 

"?"

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May 2, 2007
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1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
Jung posited that Te applies as rational to the extenral world and Ne applies as irrational to that as well. And he gave an argument for this. Same argument could be applied to how Ti applies as rational to the internal and Ni as irrational to the internal. Same argument that Jung gave for Te/Ne applies here as well. I see no reason why it would not.
I don't disagree with you SW, however consider what your theory most likely will imply. Jung also used the terms Judging and Perceiving. Thus, it would be most likely that Jung would disagree with Meyers on how the functions are determined for introverts. Most likely if he agreed that all judgers have a dominant rational function, whether extraverted or introverted, then the INTJ would use Ti, the INTP Ni, etc. Meyers' theory would be completlely wrong in believing it's the auxilary function that determines rational/irrational for introverts. Either way, IJs would still be considered rational types, and IPs irrational types like their extraverted cousins.
 

FranG

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INTJ
^^^
I agree with this. Socionics makes more sense in this regard.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
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5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I don't disagree with you SW, however consider what your theory most likely will imply. Jung also used the terms Judging and Perceiving. Thus, it would be most likely that Jung would disagree with Meyers on how the functions are determined for introverts. Most likely if he agreed that all judgers have a dominant rational function, whether extraverted or introverted, then the INTJ would use Ti, the INTP Ni, etc. Meyers' theory would be completlely wrong in believing it's the auxilary function that determines rational/irrational for introverts. Either way, IJs would still be considered rational types, and IPs irrational types like their extraverted cousins.


Yes. INTJ is a more appropriate way to say TiNe because the leading function is a rational one.
 

logan235711

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
166
MBTI Type
INTJ
I didn't read all the posts, I'll say it straight up. But perhaps they are more analytical because they can take their introspection from and Ni and Te, external and internal, so they move from first some intuitive form ending in a more external thinking so they can have more to look at since more people exist externally than in ones mind to draw from, also things in the world in general from our senses, while an INTP is Ti and Ne making it so they end up with an experience that combined external with something more personal (i.e. their intuition) rather than how people think of Thinking as something more objective in the world. Also an INTP starts with Thinking internally so drawing both at internal standards while an INTJ draws both from external standards thus has to deal more with comparing their ideas to others/external things--thus more conflicts can immediately arise causing an INTJ to either fix them or perish before the idea gets off the ground, thus they have to take more things into consideration at first glance leading to the deeper analysis.
 
Joined
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Messages
1,511
MBTI Type
ENTP
If we say being analytical is associated with Thinking, than wouldnt the type that has Thinking in the first function tend to be more analytical than the type that has thinking in the second place?

Or how about, if we say that Intuition is the salient factor concerning creativity, wouldnt this suggest that the type that has Intuition in the first place would be more creative?

I don't think of INTJs as more analytical than INTPs. Extroverted thinking has more to do with causality and goal-setting than analysis. But I do tend to think of INTPs as more creative because of the difference between introverted intuition and extroverted intuition. When I think of INTJs, I think of confidence, autonomy, and clarity of ideas.
 

"?"

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TiSe
I don't think of INTJs as more analytical than INTPs. Extroverted thinking has more to do with causality and goal-setting than analysis. But I do tend to think of INTPs as more creative because of the difference between introverted intuition and extroverted intuition. When I think of INTJs, I think of confidence, autonomy, and clarity of ideas.
Agreed. There is a "look-a-like" distinction made by Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi, regarding comparison of the types. I will post when I have the information in front of me. For now I can say that both Ni and Ti have a love for complexity. Ni doesn't necessarily need a basis, however Ti can easily determine the principles (or something like that).
 

"?"

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Yes. INTJ is a more appropriate way to say TiNe because the leading function is a rational one.
So do we revisit the Socionics theory as being correct? MBTI based their theory on the fact that introverts do not show their real selves to the world. I think the example Briggs gives is a general (dominant function) and their trusted assistant (auxiliary). Extraverts are like generals who converse directly with the betallion (the world), and introverts are like generals who allow their message to be conveyed through their assistants.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
... oh god, I love it when SW takes control like this... <swoon>

terrified1.jpg


*digs thumbnails deep into eye sockets and never takes them out*
 

InvisibleJim

Permabanned
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Messages
2,387
SolitaryWalker provided a thread title which did not match his OP. This did not sit well with my analytical nature.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
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Some names are not chosen.
 

skylights

i love
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The case is that we are more comfortable showing the world our extroverted functions more than introverted. So with the INTP, you will not see how analytical they really are unless you're in a close association with them. You will not see the INTJ's imagination unless the environment is appropriate. In most cases you will see the rigid Te that is particular about the way that things are done.

i agree with this, but i don't think it's about comfort, necessarily. i think that the nature of introverted functions is to deal with internal significance, and as such, it's more difficult to apply to the real world, much less share it with others. they circle inwards, not outwards; they don't naturally flow towards the external world. they speak an internal language, not an external one. whereas extraverted functions flow outwardly and tend to speak in more universal language. so it's not just that it's less comfortable to share introverted functions, it also requires using another function to redirect its flow and translate it into universal language. it takes a hell of a lot longer - it's generally impractical.

an INTJ certainly analyzes. they break down, categorize, say yes and no. it's extraverted, so it deals with the external elements of systems. and it's analytical in a literal sense, but the point is not the analysis; it's the breaking down to get to the core. both Ni and Te work to streamline and see "core" cause and effect. INTJ leads with N, so T works for N.

whereas INTPs are the ones who like to take apart mechanical things to see how they work, who play endlessly with the logic of systems, who go into full depth and know the ins and outs and find all the little errors. INTP leads with T, so N works for T. an INTP goes into further depth within the system, working at a theoretical level to assess the integrity of the system's internal logic, but we don't really get to see that. we only see the end results of their analysis, when they find errors in the system.

as for creativity, i think both are fairly creative. the INTPs i know tinker and the INTJs revolutionize ideas. INTPs are, predictably, a little more "outside the box" in their behavior. that's why i continue to like the J/P distinctions as they are. Pe expands and Pi hones, and i think J/P accurately reflects that. and INTJs are indeed more anal. hence J. they take longer to adjust to change. INTPs adjust more quickly, even though they usually complain about it. ;)
 

kyuuei

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:laugh: At first I was like "SW is back? .. Also, he's using !'s?? I call bullshit."

... Even four years ago though.. I'm shocked there is an ! in his title.
 

skylights

i love
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oh man, i didn't even notice the date. hello necro.

bummer. i like SW
 
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