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Norms in society that make no sense?

Luminous

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People in line ups at the check out a solid 20 feet behind the line, where people behind them are out the door because of this asshole, and no one says a word. You are not in line if you are that far back. Cutting in front of you is a courtesy I give to those behind you. Move up or fuck off next time! What I love about Covid is that they put "stand here" social distancing dots on the floor which are CLOSER than these idiots were standing before Covid! :ROFLMAO: The J part of me loves the order and the courtesy!
Maybe this is why you've had covid twice?
 

Saturnal Snowqueen

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The pledge of allegiance. We recite that in honor of our so called freedom, and yet every morning the schoolchildren are doing this ritual that is really commie sounding. And sports too, can't worship football without worshiping America. At least North Korea gets a groovy song and dance.

@Infinite Metamorphosis (can't tag Caelia for some reason) I second all this. Some people do become friends in the dating process, and it's lovely to see. But yeah, the point of dating is for the person to become your life partner in the end. So why does it have such a stiff process? An argument for not dating friends is that you'll lose them as a friend, but I think a true friend would go back to just being your friend if they spotted any rockiness in the relationship. And falling out of love is going to hurt, no matter if it's your friend or not. Dating a friend means someone is going to know your quirks and your triggers, and is going to laugh off any faux pas along the way. More casual, lighthearted fun too, that comes naturally. I don't why getting a life partner, who should end up being your best friend, is always portrayed as, "Hey, hot stuff, can I get you a drink? How are stocks?".

I also would add spanking in here. I might be biased cause I've never been spanked as a kid(only hot sauced, which is how I discovered I like spicy food). But it's hilarious, there's all these people who I see bragging about how they got spanked/switched as a child and they turned out fine, when the majority of them tend to be douchebags who aren't the sharpest tool in the shed they got switched in. It's a bit extreme to call it sexual assault, but if a guy smacks a woman on her butt, it's dubbed as such, but if the same guy were to pull his daughters panties down as he chooses the best weapon, it's discipline. I'm scared of spanking and I'm a grown woman ahaha. They say spanking makes for well behaved children and model adults, but all the other first world nations pretty much don't do that, and their crime rate is lower than ours. It's a bit of a stretch really to call ourselves a first world nation, really. I remember my stepmom telling us about how she got spanked just for forgetting a dress on the floor. A dress.

And yeah, circumcision too. They say it can protect against penile cancer which is fine and dandy, but I think if that's a concern then a man can get the procedure done when he gets older. The bleeding and hemorrhages some babies go through, it isn't worth it. Female circumcision disgusts people, and me too, especially the barbaric ways they do it. But half they time, they don't bat an eyelash at boys getting this done. They say it keeps you clean....wash your foreskin! HIV concerns? That's what protection is for! Europe is ahead of the ballgame, again. I don't think I'd blame religion here(well America wise), but yeah.it is funny that America shares circumcision with a religion they hate so much.

Gender reveal parties. This one doesn't really bother me, but it is kinda funny that they're having a celebration for what they found in between the babies legs during the ultrasound. Whatever makes you want to party, I guess. Just don't go setting the forest on fire. Also, the normalization of making fun of peoples' bedroom skills because they don't want to do risky things, it's repulsive. Just let them love each other, for heaven's sake.

Please enjoy my wall of text-
 

Paisley

Strolling Through The Shire
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Maybe this is why you've had covid twice?
and Ceecee wrote:
You should probably try grocery pick up/delivery, given your social distancing rant. I always find the histrionics most amusing from the people that can't tell the difference between inconvenience and tyranny - somehow it always come back to shopping.

No, my ex-roommates gave me covid, they both tested positive, self isolated at home, and gave it to me. (ex-roommates!)

I'm not sure why you guys aren't reading my post all the way through, but I love that there's dots on the floor now for social distancing, because at least now these idiots have to move up to the counter and stay in line so that the people behind them aren't all squished at the door! Long before covid, the level of stupidity at check-out was unbearable, and thanks to covid, it's fixed. Going grocery shopping or picking up take-out is so much better. Not sure how that was missed in what I previously wrote. Please re-read my post, it's in there.

Enjoy my Chiaroscuro:

Checkout.jpg

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Ceecee wrote:
I agree - I also wonder why people aren't in the streets protesting every time the Patriot Act is renewed. Or is that not the kind of sacrificing freedom for security you were actually talking about?

Not fighting for a plurality is the basic idea, just the general lack of understanding of losing freedom and sovereignty for those of your counterpoint and the wars that were fought to gain what we have today, and not realizing how horrible life is under a regime of oppression in any of it's political manifestations. Another way of looking at it is pluralism tricking people into thinking it's better than a plurality, which is false, it's an oppressive form of control that takes your right to speak out against it, away, and therefore is self referentially oppressive, akin to walking into prison and thinking it's paradise.
 
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Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Not fighting for a plurality is the basic idea, just the general lack of understanding of losing freedom and sovereignty for those of your counterpoint and the wars that were fought to gain what we have today, and not realizing how horrible life is under a regime of oppression in any of it's political manifestations.
What do we have today, exactly? All I see is a broken political system determined to do anything but actually solve problems. Bill of rights is in shreds, so we don't have that. I've lived under a few presidents that weren't elected with a majority of voters, so we don't really have democracy, either, although living under those regimes did suck, I'll grant you.

I do see greater freedom of speech at the moment then existed under one of the presidents the majority did not vote for, so there is that to be grateful for, I suppose. That doesn't seem like a permanent and stable thing I can rely on, though.
 
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тень

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Why do people think the current form of society is anything but hell.
 

Luminous

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But yeah, the point of dating is for the person to become your life partner in the end. So why does it have such a stiff process?
Some people date for other reasons, though. (Not that I'm one of them.)
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

typology-free life
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Why people care about 'trends' and things of that sort. Sometimes people comment about the fact that I've used Dean gifs / other Supernatural gifs for the past 3 years and I'm just like "Okay? So what? I like it, I don't care. If you do care, that's your problem, not mine. Go cry about it or whatever someplace else, leave me alone." They say it's the age of the show, but...it's not. It's simply the fact that it's no longer trending. If age had something to do with it you wouldn't see all the Star Trek memes you see online. Besides, age doesn't mean anything to me either; I like what I like and I don't care what anyone else thinks about that.

So many people struggle to be authentic and they hide like cowards behind what others say is "cool" or "acceptable." Then they laugh at me as if I'm the dumbass when I'm not the one being society's circus monkey. "Hurr hurr, you have the balls to be yourself and I don't!" Lmao

Have fun with that, I'm going to be over here enjoying whatever I actually, genuinely want to enjoy, out of my own free will, and not just whatever others tell me I can or can't enjoy, just to impress people I care nothing about...unlike these fucking Matrix programs running around trying to forsake their true selves and their autonomy to be clones of one another through social conformity. They try to infect nonconforming people via shame. Well, good luck, I am practically immune to shame. If you don't like it you can fuck right off.
 
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Paisley

Strolling Through The Shire
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Then they laugh at me as if I'm the dumbass when I'm not the one being society's circus monkey.

People laugh at you? :( Not sure what the situation is there, but I'm sorry to hear that.

Playing the devil's advocate, wouldn't espousing autonomy, non-conformity, and being your genuine self in the way you've outlined, be a form of shaming happy conformists? lolz.
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

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e85bd507b471f5bedf90dbc98fd285f4.gif


Fun question/debate. Thanks for playing devil's advocate. I love things that make me think more in-depth and challenge my stances in a fair and friendly way. Too many people use dirty tactics because they're more interested in an ego battle than the discovery of truth or refinement of thought.


People laugh at you? :( Not sure what the situation is there, but I'm sorry to hear that.
No big deal. There is no need to apologize. I don't care whether anyone laughs at me, they're just superficial/shallow and blind to how moronic what they're doing is. I laugh right back at them because it's ridiculous to be that shallow/superficial and I can't take them seriously. I admit a part of me also feels sorry for them though...I can't help but to have a bit of compassion even in those cases.

Don't even get me started on the stories about my former roommate's 16 year old son, lol. He was obnoxious as hell about anyone who wasn't into whatever was popular/trending, especially music.

I have always been on the front end of design trends when it comes to my fashion/design works, but before I had refined my skills/tastes/eye for things, people laughed at me or thought I was weird for my individuality in that, too. I gave 'em the middle finger and kept doing my own thing, then later they were all fucking trying to copy me. I had to file DMCA's. Some still do try to copy the style of my works, lol.

Playing the devil's advocate, wouldn't espousing autonomy, non-conformity, and being your genuine self in the way you've outlined, be a form of shaming happy conformists? lolz.
Is there such thing as a truly happy "conformist?" I don't mean happiness like "person feels better about conforming because it's safer or more comfortable," I mean enjoying life, enjoying their own freedom and individuality, exercising their own will, making their own decisions, etc. It's healthy to have some boundaries.


I see multiple angles/possibilities in response to this.
  • Yes - shaming occured, as did an attempt to alter their position

  • No - shaming occured, but the objective was merely defending one's own stance / autonomy / independence, without attempting to alter the other's stance. AKA "back off, I don't need to do it your way, this is how I see it and why I never will"
    • If also enforcing the idea that influence should not be attempted...then I have to question: if there was no one influencing, wouldn't a 'happy conformist' be autonomously choosing conformity? Kind of an oxymoron, lol. It's not exactly the same as this 'conformity' in that case, as it is done of one's own deliberate, autonomous will.
      .
  • No - shaming did not occur, but there was an attempt to alter the other's stance

  • No - and this is the most interesting angle imo...shaming occured, as did an attempt to alter their position, but such is not "the flip side of the coin." Why?
Conformity is a social function and in some cases serves a purpose, but the thing about autonomy is that it doesn't intrinsically equate to a lack of cooperation, synchronization, coordination, unified effort or thought, and whatever else comes out of conformity. It's the same way that "thinking as if there is no box" is going to at times overlap with thinking inside of the box. If you're thinking outside of the box excessively / just to avoid thinking inside of the box, that's dumb / try-hard because it means you'll still do that even if whatever is inside of the box makes more sense. Likewise, autonomous thinking doesn't equate to isolated thinking. Ideally, it would simply mean they won't absent-mindedly follow like lemmings diving off of a cliff just because the others are. Ideally, they will challenge things more because they're using their own minds. As a result, they can settle on something more optimal. This is more related to traditionalism than trends, though. Trends are subjective. Therefore, pressuring/judging/shaming people out of their authenticity is merely subjective preference elitism--or perhaps collective preference elitism?--which makes no sense. "My opinion is better than yours" bullshit...which is worse when it's not even your true opinion. Cut it out, let people be who they are without all that shallow/superficial horse shit.


Possibilities aside - in this one specific instance, and the context I said it in: shaming, no. At least that's not my intention. 'Shaming' is sort of like a foreign language I don't receive/speak very well. However, if that's what their response is and it works as motivation, I'm not going to complain. Usually it only encourages people to deny the facts/truth though, which is not very helpful/conducive to desirable results. Calling them out, pointing out the error in those ways--absolutely. Expressing my own annoyance, irritation, frustration, or anger--also yes. Metaphorically "slapping" them to shake them up and get them to rethink their actions or come to some sort of realization--yes, I do that also sometimes.

It's better to encourage autonomy either way, as I see it. You can still have all the benefits of conformity, plus more.
 
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Hypatia

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e85bd507b471f5bedf90dbc98fd285f4.gif


Fun question/debate. Thanks for playing devil's advocate. I love things that make me think more in-depth and challenge my stances in a fair and friendly way. Too many people use dirty tactics because they're more interested in an ego battle than the discovery of truth or refinement of thought.



No big deal. There is no need to apologize. I don't care whether anyone laughs at me, they're just superficial/shallow and blind to how moronic what they're doing is. I laugh right back at them because it's ridiculous to be that shallow/superficial and I can't take them seriously. I admit a part of me also feels sorry for them though...I can't help but to have a bit of compassion even in those cases.

Don't even get me started on the stories about my former roommate's 16 year old son, lol. He was obnoxious as hell about anyone who wasn't into whatever was popular/trending, especially music.

I have always been on the front end of design trends when it comes to my fashion/design works, but before I had refined my skills/tastes/eye for things, people laughed at me or thought I was weird for my individuality in that, too. I gave 'em the middle finger and kept doing my own thing, then later they were all fucking trying to copy me. I had to file DMCA's. Some still do try to copy the style of my works, lol.


Is there such thing as a truly happy "conformist?" I don't mean happiness like "person feels better about conforming because it's safer or more comfortable," I mean enjoying life, enjoying their own freedom and individuality, exercising their own will, making their own decisions, etc. It's healthy to have some boundaries.


I see multiple angles/possibilities in response to this.
  • Yes - shaming occured, as did an attempt to alter their position

  • No - shaming occured, but the objective was merely defending one's own stance / autonomy / independence, without attempting to alter the other's stance. AKA "back off, I don't need to do it your way, this is how I see it and why I never will"
    • If also enforcing the idea that influence should not be attempted...then I have to question: if there was no one influencing, wouldn't a 'happy conformist' be autonomously choosing conformity? Kind of an oxymoron, lol. It's not exactly the same as this 'conformity' in that case, as it is done of one's own deliberate, autonomous will.
      .
  • No - shaming did not occur, but there was an attempt to alter the other's stance

  • No - and this is the most interesting angle imo...shaming occured, as did an attempt to alter their position, but such is not "the flip side of the coin." Why?
Conformity is a social function and in some cases serves a purpose, but the thing about autonomy is that it doesn't intrinsically equate to a lack of cooperation, synchronization, coordination, unified effort or thought, and whatever else comes out of conformity. It's the same way that "thinking as if there is no box" is going to at times overlap with thinking inside of the box. If you're thinking outside of the box excessively / just to avoid thinking inside of the box, that's dumb / try-hard because it means you'll still do that even if whatever is inside of the box makes more sense. Likewise, autonomous thinking doesn't equate to isolated thinking. Ideally, it would simply mean they won't absent-mindedly follow like lemmings diving off of a cliff just because the others are. Ideally, they will challenge things more because they're using their own minds. As a result, they can settle on something more optimal. This is more related to traditionalism than trends, though. Trends are subjective. Therefore, pressuring/judging/shaming people out of their authenticity is merely subjective preference elitism that makes no sense.


Possibilities aside - in this one specific instance, and the context I said it in: shaming, no. At least that's not my intention. 'Shaming' is sort of like a foreign language I don't receive/speak very well. However, if that's what their response is and it works as motivation, I'm not going to complain. Usually it only encourages people to deny the facts/truth though, which is not very helpful/conducive to desirable results. Calling them out, pointing out the error in those ways--absolutely. Expressing my own annoyance, irritation, frustration, or anger--also yes. Metaphorically "slapping" them to shake them up and get them to rethink their actions or come to some sort of realization--yes, I do that also sometimes.

It's better to encourage autonomy either way, as I see it. You can still have all the benefits of conformity, plus more.
Eh, sometimes encouraging too much autonomy can also be deleterious though.
 

Paisley

Strolling Through The Shire
Joined
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Fun question/debate. Thanks for playing devil's advocate. I love things that make me think more in-depth and challenge my stances in a fair and friendly way. Too many people use dirty tactics because they're more interested in an ego battle than the discovery of truth or refinement of thought.



No big deal. There is no need to apologize. I don't care whether anyone laughs at me, they're just superficial/shallow and blind to how moronic what they're doing is. I laugh right back at them because it's ridiculous to be that shallow/superficial and I can't take them seriously. I admit a part of me also feels sorry for them though...I can't help but to have a bit of compassion even in those cases.

Don't even get me started on the stories about my former roommate's 16 year old son, lol. He was obnoxious as hell about anyone who wasn't into whatever was popular/trending, especially music.

I have always been on the front end of design trends when it comes to my fashion/design works, but before I had refined my skills/tastes/eye for things, people laughed at me or thought I was weird for my individuality in that, too. I gave 'em the middle finger and kept doing my own thing, then later they were all fucking trying to copy me. I had to file DMCA's. Some still do try to copy the style of my works, lol.


Is there such thing as a truly happy "conformist?" I don't mean happiness like "person feels better about conforming because it's safer or more comfortable," I mean enjoying life, enjoying their own freedom and individuality, exercising their own will, making their own decisions, etc. It's healthy to have some boundaries.


I see multiple angles/possibilities in response to this.
  • Yes - shaming occured, as did an attempt to alter their position

  • No - shaming occured, but the objective was merely defending one's own stance / autonomy / independence, without attempting to alter the other's stance. AKA "back off, I don't need to do it your way, this is how I see it and why I never will"
    • If also enforcing the idea that influence should not be attempted...then I have to question: if there was no one influencing, wouldn't a 'happy conformist' be autonomously choosing conformity? Kind of an oxymoron, lol. It's not exactly the same as this 'conformity' in that case, as it is done of one's own deliberate, autonomous will.
      .
  • No - shaming did not occur, but there was an attempt to alter the other's stance

  • No - and this is the most interesting angle imo...shaming occured, as did an attempt to alter their position, but such is not "the flip side of the coin." Why?
Conformity is a social function and in some cases serves a purpose, but the thing about autonomy is that it doesn't intrinsically equate to a lack of cooperation, synchronization, coordination, unified effort or thought, and whatever else comes out of conformity. It's the same way that "thinking as if there is no box" is going to at times overlap with thinking inside of the box. If you're thinking outside of the box excessively / just to avoid thinking inside of the box, that's dumb / try-hard because it means you'll still do that even if whatever is inside of the box makes more sense. Likewise, autonomous thinking doesn't equate to isolated thinking. Ideally, it would simply mean they won't absent-mindedly follow like lemmings diving off of a cliff just because the others are. Ideally, they will challenge things more because they're using their own minds. As a result, they can settle on something more optimal. This is more related to traditionalism than trends, though. Trends are subjective. Therefore, pressuring/judging/shaming people out of their authenticity is merely subjective preference elitism--or perhaps collective preference elitism?--which makes no sense. "My opinion is better than yours" bullshit...which is worse when it's not even your true opinion. Cut it out, let people be who they are without all that shallow/superficial horse shit.


Possibilities aside - in this one specific instance, and the context I said it in: shaming, no. At least that's not my intention. 'Shaming' is sort of like a foreign language I don't receive/speak very well. However, if that's what their response is and it works as motivation, I'm not going to complain. Usually it only encourages people to deny the facts/truth though, which is not very helpful/conducive to desirable results. Calling them out, pointing out the error in those ways--absolutely. Expressing my own annoyance, irritation, frustration, or anger--also yes. Metaphorically "slapping" them to shake them up and get them to rethink their actions or come to some sort of realization--yes, I do that also sometimes.

It's better to encourage autonomy either way, as I see it. You can still have all the benefits of conformity, plus more.
Hilarious how much detail went into responding to my lint sized comment, so cool.

You are in fashion/design works, and I was in mechanical design, so we have some common ground, sort of. Once, during a morning meeting with the lead welder who has 25+ years experience, he laughed at my idea on this design and he called me something, dang it, I forget what it was, anyway, later that day we drove out for a meeting with the client and their team of engineers and workers who were going to use this thing, and they re-drew my exact design I tried to explain earlier that morning, and my dear welder turned a very embarrassing shade of red. :ROFLMAO: Pretty funny.

Some level of conformity is just a way of modelling societal norms to fit in, which I understand, but then there's an unhealthy level that's oppressive towards being real, which looks fake and disingenuous, so it's really just a desire for wanting people to be their authentic selves. Conformists are people pleasers, so perhaps that's also why you don't like it.

To get to that point though where you're annoyed, irritated, frustrated, angry, and you're metaphorically trying to slap them to shake them up and get them to rethink their actions, you know damn well is just giving them an easy in to laugh at you and mock you, because they got a rise out of you. If I ever got pushed that far, I'd be too angry to think straight to respond with the direct direct approach, so I'd probably use the disguised direct approach, like the sarcastic Irish woman accent, "Oh deary, what are we going to do about you being a moron?" It's amazing how much truth I can speak directly at a persons flaws with an Irish accent, the accent is so strange and ridiculous out of my mouth they can't help but laugh, which diffuses the tension, but at the same time, every word is the truth that I see about them. Worked once, really well. :ROFLMAO: Great for circumstances that are already uncomfortable. Or you could try killing them with kindness! lolz.
 
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Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
Joined
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Messages
548
Hilarious how much detail went into responding to my lint sized comment, so cool.

You are in fashion/design works, and I was in mechanical design, so we have some common ground, sort of. Once, during a morning meeting with the lead welder who has 25+ years experience, he laughed at my idea on this design and he called me something, dang it, I forget what it was, anyway, later that day we drove out for a meeting with the client and their team of engineers and workers who were going to use this thing, and they re-drew my exact design I tried to explain earlier that morning, and my dear welder turned a very embarrassing shade of red. :ROFLMAO: Pretty funny.

Some level of conformity is just a way of modelling societal norms to fit in, which I understand, but then there's an unhealthy level that's oppressive towards being real, which looks fake and disingenuous, so it's really just a desire for wanting people to be their authentic selves.

To get to that point though where you're annoyed, irritated, frustrated, angry, and you're metaphorically trying to slap them to shake them up and get them to rethink their actions, you know damn well is just giving them an easy in to laugh at you and mock you, because they got a rise out of you. If I ever got pushed that far, I'd be too angry to think straight to respond with the direct direct approach, so I'd probably use the disguised direct approach, like the sarcastic Irish woman accent, "Oh deary, what are we going to do about you being a moron?" It's amazing how much truth I can speak directly at a persons flaws with an Irish accent, the accent is so strange and ridiculous out of my mouth they can't help but laugh, which diffuses the tension, but at the same time, every word is the truth that I see about them. Worked once, really well. :ROFLMAO: Great for circumstances that are already uncomfortable. Or you could try killing them with kindness! lolz.
I now think you're becoming too emotional.
 

Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
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Messages
548
How? I'm almost asleep...lolz...
LolzZz hehehe :happy:

you're getting worked up about a theory which you spend a lot of time pronouncing but offer no demonstrable proof for its tenability other self-referential aggrandizement. i'm open to being co-opted if you can offer some proof that it actually works. like, how is your theory actually different from enneagram? you wrote something about enneagram earlier but as far as i can tell it was more along the lines of "enneagram is better than mbti" vagueness but i couldn't see any concrete reasoning.
 

Paisley

Strolling Through The Shire
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LolzZz hehehe :happy:

you're getting worked up about a theory which you spend a lot of time pronouncing but offer no demonstrable proof for its tenability other self-referential aggrandizement. i'm open to being co-opted if you can offer some proof that it actually works. like, how is your theory actually different from enneagram? you wrote something about enneagram earlier but as far as i can tell it was more along the lines of "enneagram is better than mbti" vagueness but i couldn't see any concrete reasoning.
Dude, what are talking about? You sound drunk. Are you drunk? Never drink and post. If not, MBTI is amazing, and enneagram makes no sense to me because I'm still learning it. Read the whole thread in context, if you're having trouble, or just quote it, and we can go through it right now, and I can help you with the context.
 

Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
Joined
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Messages
548
Dude, what are talking about? You sound drunk. Are you drunk? Never drink and post. If not, MBTI is amazing, and enneagram makes no sense to me because I'm still learning it. Read the whole thread in context, if you're having trouble, or just quote it, and we can go through it right now, and I can help you with the context.
Sorry. It's just really mentally taxing on my drunken brain to keep track of the cacophony of dupes. But if you say so.
 
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