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"No Time to Die," Craig's Bond, & What Comes Next

Totenkindly

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I couldn't find an official thread of its own for this film, and it seems like as the closer, it's a good time to also discuss this film in terms of how it resolves all five of Craig's Bond, what it means, and what might happen next with the franchise. Will post an overview review of the film shortly.
 

Totenkindly

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My personal feeling about the film -- I'd score it 7/10. There are things I really really liked (e.g., the scoring cues hearkening back to Connery and Lazenby Bond films, that actually reflect on the plot of THIS film!), and things I really didn't much care for (e.g., clearing the table of supporting cast, it felt a little forced; as well as how underwritten the villain of this film was).

I will put all of my comments in spoilers, and it's just going to be random observations.

Good:


Bad:
 
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Totenkindly

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I think the thing is that the next Bond will have to be a reinvention and not like Craig's Bond. At least the concluding episode here easily allows for that to occur. I've seen a decent writeup that Timothy Dalton's Bond was similar to the Craig version, to move away from the campier Roger Moore version, but audiences were not as receptive at the time -- so Dalton only had two outings, walked away, and then Brosnan kind of did something inbetween that and the Moore version which eased the transition. By the time Craig came on, the mentality had changed some to allow him more success to be a blunter, deadlier, more dangerous Bond who still possessed an underlying streak of vulnerability.

But that story arc is now done, so how will the next Bond differentiate the character, to seem like a breathe of fresh air still in alignment with the viewing culture? I wonder if other series with this issue (Doctor Who, for example) address it.
 

Totenkindly

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Not much on this yet. But wondering what direction they will go in.

Most of the lists seem to be the same people. I wonder if they are actually considering people on these lists or whether they've got eyes on a relative unknown. Interestingly Dev Patel and Henry Golding are now popping up .... Rege-Jean Page too.



The esquire article allows for polling of each candidate, and I don't think there are many surprises there -- people seem really set on white guys with a particular look.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I think an unknown is preferable but not a must. Age should be over 30 but under 35. Preferably 33ish. While I do love Hardy and Elba, both might be a tad up there to portray believably youthful but experienced spies . That said, Elba is a fucking beast IRL and can still handle the physicality of most action roles, so I could see him working if they write the character more as a hardened, jaded veteran. Hardy has a youthful face that could carry him for a while. It just seems below either actor's caliber though, but then people probably said the same about Dalton and Craig when they were first announced, and both brought more dimension and realism to the part than any other actor has yet. Haven't seen a lot of other guys that wow me mentioned as candidates. Richard Madden certainly has that "classic" Bond look and he can act, but I feel he looks a little too generic and prissy for the role. Physicality and look is a big deal. Bond should move like a tiger and convey danger in even the most subtle gestures.

Honestly, I'm more interested to see who is cast as the next villain and MI6 personnel (assuming they don't continue with the current supporting MI6 cast). I'd like to see another reboot. A mistake I think the pre-Craig series made was not wiping the slate clean and rebooting the universe with every new actor to play 007.
 
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Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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This worked very well for me, much better than Spectre. I can't say how much I've come to loathe the twist of making the villain secretly related to the hero. Yes, I know it was shocking when The Empire Strikes Back did it. Guess what?, That was 40 years ago, screenwriters. The novelty of it has really worn off by this point. It also seemed really convoluted and kind of boring how he was behind everything else in the previous movies. The reminder of that here is probably the worst part of this movie.

So I'd put this above Quantum of Solace and Spectre, and not as good as Skyfall. It might be tied with Casino Royale or even above it. I need to watch that one again. (I appreciated that this one embraced stuff like gadgets, post-kill puns, and awesome secret lairs; Casino Royale might lose a few points for trying to be Bourne a bit too too much. I liked the Bourne movies, it's just that the more "out there" things about Bond are some of the most enjoyable things for me).



I think an unknown is preferable but not a must. Age should be over 30 but under 35. Preferably 33ish.

I only just turned 36. They could pick me... the first American twink Bond who can't act, lol.

In all seriousness, on a podcast they pointed out that the only people who had already been famous before Bond were famous for TV (Brosnan and Moore); there has never been a Bond that was already a movie star, and I'd say Hardy and Elba kind of count at this point. Can't see Kit Harrington working as Bond, either, unless we want to hear "she is my queen" over and over.
 
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B

Billy2713

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My personal feeling about the film -- I'd score it 7/10. There are things I really really liked (e.g., the scoring cues hearkening back to Connery and Lazenby Bond films, that actually reflect on the plot of THIS film!), and things I really didn't much care for (e.g., clearing the table of supporting cast, it felt a little forced; as well as how underwritten the villain of this film was).

I will put all of my comments in spoilers, and it's just going to be random observations.

Good:


Bad:
What I would like to know is, -What book does M read from for the closing 'To James' toast.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I know I talk trash about expanded cinematic universes, but I could really see that working for a franchise about 007. So what I would do is reboot and start almost totally fresh, but perhaps carry over a few of the actors like Fiennes and Wishaw, keeping in the series tradition of retaining certain supporting cast members even for reboots. Let's just be boring and assume they take a nod from MCU I think you could end up with something like this:

PHASE 1:

1. Bond 1 - an obligatory origins film. I know Casino Royale already kind of did this, but that continuity needs to be wiped out. This film wouldn't have to be a remake of CR (I would save that adaptation for later in the series), just has to show Bond "make his bones" and "become" 007. I do think they should follow what CR did and introduce Felix Leiter here, because we're going to see him in....
2. Felix Leiter 1 - I've been saying it for years that Leiter is one of the most neglected 007 characters, a glorified helper who usually got very little character development. His own film is a great chance to explore the character and see how he contrasts with the more polished 007.
3. Lady 00 movie 1
4. Spectre origins film - how cool would it be to have some episodes/films told from the point of view of Bond villains? Perhaps this one focuses on Blofeld, but it would be neat to see other old spectre villains resurrected and reimagined as well.
5. Bond 2
6. Jinx Jordan movie - I know Die Another Day sucked ass but I liked Jinx, so why not reimagine her?
7. Big Team Up Avengers style movie - This is where you get to showcase all of the heroes introduced in the previous 5 films.

PHASE 2 you follow with more Bond movies, but we start seeing more films introducing other agents and villains. Every agent should have unique personalities, specialties and skills, otherwise you end up with a lot of boring Bond clones. Bond himself is sort of the stop gap measure MI6 sends in when they need the blunt instrument. I would take the whole joke about him being the world's best known spy and run with that, because to me he was always more of an assassin, fixer, "problem eliminator" (to quote Dalton in License to Kill) and occasional spy master. Bond doesn't need to hide his identity because it is his identity and reputation that often works as an asset. Then you can have other agents focused more on the covert aspects of the job.

Also, I see possibilities to jump around in the timeline. Imagine if one of the agents is an older guy modeled loosely after the Bonds of Moore and Connery--there you have possibilities for flashback movies set in the past, but that could be tied into the "present". Or maybe we even get a flashback film showing a young M as a field operative.

There's still a whole past universe of characters that could be reimagined. For instance, I would like to see a film featuring Scaramanga (aka the man w/ the golden gun) that makes up for mistakes of the original and focuses more on the Scaramanga-Bond rivalry. There's just so much untapped potential left in both the cinematic and literary universes, that this is begging to be reborn as a cinematic expanded universe. Plus you could have tie in shows about "the little people", so maybe a show about the minds and talents of Q branch, perhaps a show about MI6 non-00 agents, showing them as the unsung intelligence operatives whose exploits are often overshadowed by those of the 00s
 
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Totenkindly

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What I would like to know is, -What book does M read from for the closing 'To James' toast.
He's quoting Jack London, but Fleming himself quoted that bit in "You Only Live Twice" where everyone thinks Bond has died. [That book is very different than the corresponding film.] So it has a dual meaning.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I'll warn everyone that I took an edible before typing this.

I think this was my second favorite Craig bond movie. I haven't seen enough of the others to know how they stack up overall. First would be Skyfall; Casino Royale has some tropes I'm a little tired of (and to be honest the vaguely post-911 nature of it rubs against me in the wrong way a little (I know that's dumb as hell but I think that plays a factor)., but its tropes aren't nearly as annoying as the ones Specter uses. (I was behind it all for vague reasons muhahaha and also I'm secretly your half brother or some bullshit we stole from Austin Powers of all things) And then we have which Quantam of Solace which is just kinda boring although that fight in that desert mansion was kinda cool and also that opera bit was neat.

But this, this avoided a lot of cliches and they also really had the guts to show Bond kind of doing things that were sort of against how people are used to seeing them. Bond potentially as a family man? It really was no time to die. And as best we have Skyfall which is unbelievably slick and gorgeous; that stove at the dragon casino in Macau? The bit on the skyscraper in Shanghai; the hall of mirrors in the old mansion? I give movies a lot of points if they just look great.
 
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