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Let's talk the dislike of religion and spirituality.

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,297
Half of the USA seems to think intuitively, and half counter intuitively.

The intuitive half are semi literate, they have learnt to read and write in primary and secondary school, but have not read the great works of literature and science. They have learnt their mother tongue naturally and intuitively at home, but have failed to learn to think counter intuitively in University. So they intuitively trust the authority of their religion, as well as the authority of political confidence men.

If faith is, "The sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions", then confidence is the business equivalent of faith, and confidence men are the equivalent of priests, pastors, mullahs, rabbis, and gurus.

The USA is under estimated because we fail to recognise the USA has the ability to reinvent itself. What they will invent this time, we don't know. But we stand by as loyal allies.
 

Indigo Rodent

Active member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
362
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
1w9
1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?
-All that make assumption of existence of supernatural.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.
-I think my final realisation on on nature of religion was following the case of Weis Supermarket shooter - Andrew Blaze - a transwoman that thought she's a female ghost from afterlife because of psychosis. It has shown me the process of forming of a religion/belief in supernatural and also seeing parallels between her and for example Russel Brand. The same type of mental illness. Once you see it you can't unsee it.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?
-Both.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?
-I distinguish between spirituality and belief in supernatural. Spirits can be entities existing in human brain.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?
-Sounds impractical.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?
-Yes it's psychotic.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
-I think it's possible to rationally discuss psychotic delusions.

9. Do you believe that another person's religiousness impacts their of quality of character?
-It mainly makes my skin crawl. Spiritual experiences may lead to some character improvement for example being less attacked to material possessions and being more altruistic even if they are accompanied by delusions.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)
-I'm spiritual but I don't believe in supernatural.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,297
Only secular democratic States guarantee freedom of religions. States based on a particular religion do not guarantee freedom of religion or freedom from religion.

And it is important to assert freedom from religion means nothing unless we are free to offend the sensibilities of the faithful.
 

Alice Unchained

New member
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
13
1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?
It's cheating one way or the other. Religion is the same as spirituality from my angle.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.
No, it is inbuilt. I've never felt as if anyone can absolve me from the consequences of my mistakes, guide me, punish me better than myself. I am the god when it comes to these matters.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?
"True belief" is most likely stemming from a mental issue. It is quite usual, but a mental disalignment nonetheless.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?
Not at all.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?
No, because obviously people need it to get by. I think this part is the only true thing about spirituality.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?
It's cheating but obviously it is important to survival on some level; has both a damaging and a healing side.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
Only from the perspective of psychology or history.

9. Do you believe that another person's religiousness impacts their of quality of character?
It goes both ways.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)
I am not related to religion in any shape or size. Don't worry, I "cheat" in other ways. Not better than you, only trying to be so.
 

LightSun

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
960
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
#9
I pose a few questions for you.

1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?

9. Do you believe that another person's religiousness impacts their of quality of character?

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)

(I rephrased question #9 from [MENTION=27952]Merced[/MENTION] suggestion. Thank you !)
“Fear was the first thing on earth to create gods.” Lucretius

“It is the fear of the unknown. Our mind has a mind all its own. The subconscious it is on automatic.

We humans always seek to understand our reality. What we don’t understand, we construct metaphors to explain things beyond our ken.

It also lessens our felt cognitive dissonance of what we don’t understand. This has been the way with every culture throughout history.

Even hard science have theories that are only working hypothesis until we know better. The Big Bang is a theory. I don’t believe in anything unless it is proven in the here and now and it’s results replicated.

Who truly knows what happened 13.8 billion years ago. I’ve seen to many theories overturned in my own lifetime. Science has the edge however. It continues to progress and update its hypothesis of the universe.

Unfortunately religion is not so moving forward. I think it is a shame that people subscribe to thoughts that originated during the Bronze Age.

They say all scripture is inspired by God. I agree that all the religious texts are inspired, but by human insight and creativity. There are some who subscribe that the great scriptures are to be taken as metaphorical lessons.

There are others who say it is the word of God. Therefore it can’t be challenged. This is backward thinking too me.

Know this, I am but human. It is my opinion on how I view life. For those who believe other, I acknowledge your right to believe differently.

I’m not going to argue over what I consider subjective opinion. I welcome all beliefs who are of open mind.

In other words a person has a right to believe whatever they do, yet they can still work with people of disparate beliefs.

The renowned Aristotle said, “It is the mark of an educated man to entertain a notion he might not agree with.”

I don’t tell others what to believe. Live and let live and let’s focus on making this a better world for people irregardless of what they may or may not believe.”
 

LightSun

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
960
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
#9
Only secular democratic States guarantee freedom of religions. States based on a particular religion do not guarantee freedom of religion or freedom from religion.

And it is important to assert freedom from religion means nothing unless we are free to offend the sensibilities of the faithful.
“What is the difference between religion and spirituality? Why is the spiritual path more pure?

I am an existentialist, humanist and stoic, but primarily I am an empiricist from a philosophical point of view. I have a saying, “I don’t care what you believe or don’t believe. I focus on positive energy.”

They say that love will save the world. I say understanding, tolerance, communication and respect are key pivotal ingredients to make this a better world. I have run across dogmatic religious people and atheists.

They are both closed minded. I take the best of both secular and religious wisdom. I don’t give credence to any fundamental religious belief that says their’s is the only path to salvation.

To me this causes division. Blind to the fact they make a mark in the sand and say, “You are either with us or against us.” This is deplorable. It is a demonstration of extremely closed mindednesses.

My belief. I don’t force on anybody else. It is merely my position. I don’t believe in a single religions saying that theirs is the path to salvation.

I am not attacking anybody. You are entitled to your position. It’s just that I am educated. I take wisdom and truths from mythology, philosophy, psychology, comparative religion, theology, history and physics.

All my life I have been a seeker and searcher for wisdom and truth whether it is secular or religious. I take what resonated with me. I discount that which doesn’t resonate. This is metaphorical language. I can not prove it but it is an analogy.

Across countless times, cultures and beliefs there seem to be fundamental base beliefs that seek to propel mankind to a higher conscious.

Jesus saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is within’ is replayed across countless religions, societies and the wisdom of both secular philosophers and religious mystics.

It is my fundamental belief and it is substantiated by many giants of thoughts whether philosopher, mystic, historian. And scientist that until we take responsibility for our own salvation, we will never evolve.

Certainly to the level we are capable of. To give credence to this line of thinking, “That Jesus is my salvation and I am a sinner,’ only keeps us in believing outdated supernatural belief.

As Buddha said, “Only we can save ourselves. Only we can walk our path and no other.” I like it in Hinduism, “There are many paths to the top of the mountain.”

Indeed as we all have different life lessons to learn and evolve. In effect saving ourselves in this lifetime by our own efforts and not relying on an external source or savior.

Like I said I take the best of all religions. I love Jesus. He and Buddha are a role model as well hero to follow their precepts. Those belief that I can resonate with.

I take from Jesus to, “Love thy neighbor as thy self and to love thy God.” I put God as a metaphor of the interrelatedness of not only our species but our connection to all life and indeed existence.

God is best represented as Nature to me. Yet we have this edict from Jesus yet we live in a world of hypocrisy. There are good and bad theists and non-theists. The important point is do you walk your talk and practice what you preach?

We live in a society, indeed on a global scale worshipping 1. Sex 2. Beauty 3. Violence 4. Wealth 5. Power and 6. Fame. Jesus and the Bible say be careful of who you associate with.

Yet Donald Trump uses cognitive distortions (as ascertained by psychology, CBT: Cognitive Behavior Therapy) such as 1. Labeling, pejoratives and name calling, even at the expense of his own party.

He is clinically a certified bonafide narcissist. He calls Rosie O’Donell a farm animal determined by scientists to have a higher IQ than a dog.

He lies. He says, “I have something on President Barack Obama and I can prove it. I shall shock people with the truth that President Obama is not a US citizen but is African in origin.

Lies, and either put up or shut up. He uses misogynistic language talking about women on a tour bus.

All. All was broadcast and yet, and I am generalizing, the Christian Far Right Evangelicals put Mr. Trump in office.

A damning statistic is that those who believe in a God or Universe which is 1. Fair 2. Just 3. Loving are far more judgmental according to research.

‘Belief In A Just World’

M.J. Lerner studied the tendency of individuals to believe in a just world. In a just world, good things happen to good people, and bad things to bad people.

Much of the research into a belief in a just world (BJW) centers around developing measures that indicate the degree to which an individual believes in a just world.

A strong belief in a just world increases the likelihood of “blaming the victim” since such a world view denies the possibility of innocent victims.”

Source: GRE Graduate Record Examination. Subject Test: Psychology sixth edition, 2016 Kaplan Inc.

The truth is statistically those who believe in a just, loving, fair universe and God are more judgmental. Religion is supposed to make us better.

It’s supposed to refine us and make us better yet those religions which in dogma sense say theirs is the only way and path are more judgmental and intolerant of others beliefs, practices, or cultures.

I reiterate there are open minded theists and non-theists. It is to those I appeal to. I can not change another. Moreover it is not my duty or responsibility. Each is entitled to believe or not believe as meets their sensibility.

The reason why we have judgment, persecution, wars, sin, intolerance, prejudices and why we don’t grow or evolve societally is because this is unconscious mostly.

The most powerful and true quote of any religion or philosopher is by Carl Jung. “Until we make the unconscious conscious we will never evolve or meet our potential.”

Learning all the biblical verses or learning religious texts or collecting secular philosophy will not teach you to be self reliant.

Wisdom can not be taught. In my own humble view all of the religions are merely stepping stones in the right direction. I am spiritual. I am not religious, not in the bit.

Dogma constrains us. And we fool ourselves by going to church, learning verses, but never learn to think for ourself and walk a path in life where we discover the truth within us verses memorizing outdated religious verses that I’m many cases were structured in a Bronze Age.” LightSun

#Wisdom #dogma #openmind #spirituality #Path
 

LightSun

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
960
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
#9
“What is the difference between religion and spirituality? Why is the spiritual path more pure?

I am an existentialist, humanist and stoic, but primarily I am an empiricist from a philosophical point of view. I have a saying, “I don’t care what you believe or don’t believe. I focus on positive energy.”

They say that love will save the world. I say understanding, tolerance, communication and respect are key pivotal ingredients to make this a better world. I have run across dogmatic religious people and atheists.

They are both closed minded. I take the best of both secular and religious wisdom. I don’t give credence to any fundamental religious belief that says their’s is the only path to salvation.

To me this causes division. Blind to the fact they make a mark in the sand and say, “You are either with us or against us.” This is deplorable. It is a demonstration of extremely closed mindednesses.

My belief. I don’t force on anybody else. It is merely my position. I don’t believe in a single religions saying that theirs is the path to salvation.

I am not attacking anybody. You are entitled to your position. It’s just that I am educated. I take wisdom and truths from mythology, philosophy, psychology, comparative religion, theology, history and physics.

All my life I have been a seeker and searcher for wisdom and truth whether it is secular or religious. I take what resonated with me. I discount that which doesn’t resonate. This is metaphorical language. I can not prove it but it is an analogy.

Across countless times, cultures and beliefs there seem to be fundamental base beliefs that seek to propel mankind to a higher conscious.

Jesus saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is within’ is replayed across countless religions, societies and the wisdom of both secular philosophers and religious mystics.

It is my fundamental belief and it is substantiated by many giants of thoughts whether philosopher, mystic, historian. And scientist that until we take responsibility for our own salvation, we will never evolve.

Certainly to the level we are capable of. To give credence to this line of thinking, “That Jesus is my salvation and I am a sinner,’ only keeps us in believing outdated supernatural belief.

As Buddha said, “Only we can save ourselves. Only we can walk our path and no other.” I like it in Hinduism, “There are many paths to the top of the mountain.”

Indeed as we all have different life lessons to learn and evolve. In effect saving ourselves in this lifetime by our own efforts and not relying on an external source or savior.

Like I said I take the best of all religions. I love Jesus. He and Buddha are a role model as well hero to follow their precepts. Those belief that I can resonate with.

I take from Jesus to, “Love thy neighbor as thy self and to love thy God.” I put God as a metaphor of the interrelatedness of not only our species but our connection to all life and indeed existence.

God is best represented as Nature to me. Yet we have this edict from Jesus yet we live in a world of hypocrisy. There are good and bad theists and non-theists. The important point is do you walk your talk and practice what you preach?

We live in a society, indeed on a global scale worshipping 1. Sex 2. Beauty 3. Violence 4. Wealth 5. Power and 6. Fame. Jesus and the Bible say be careful of who you associate with.

Yet Donald Trump uses cognitive distortions (as ascertained by psychology, CBT: Cognitive Behavior Therapy) such as 1. Labeling, pejoratives and name calling, even at the expense of his own party.

He is clinically a certified bonafide narcissist. He calls Rosie O’Donell a farm animal determined by scientists to have a higher IQ than a dog.

He lies. He says, “I have something on President Barack Obama and I can prove it. I shall shock people with the truth that President Obama is not a US citizen but is African in origin.

Lies, and either put up or shut up. He uses misogynistic language talking about women on a tour bus.

All. All was broadcast and yet, and I am generalizing, the Christian Far Right Evangelicals put Mr. Trump in office.

A damning statistic is that those who believe in a God or Universe which is 1. Fair 2. Just 3. Loving are far more judgmental according to research.

‘Belief In A Just World’

M.J. Lerner studied the tendency of individuals to believe in a just world. In a just world, good things happen to good people, and bad things to bad people.

Much of the research into a belief in a just world (BJW) centers around developing measures that indicate the degree to which an individual believes in a just world.

A strong belief in a just world increases the likelihood of “blaming the victim” since such a world view denies the possibility of innocent victims.”

Source: GRE Graduate Record Examination. Subject Test: Psychology sixth edition, 2016 Kaplan Inc.

The truth is statistically those who believe in a just, loving, fair universe and God are more judgmental. Religion is supposed to make us better.

It’s supposed to refine us and make us better yet those religions which in dogma sense say theirs is the only way and path are more judgmental and intolerant of others beliefs, practices, or cultures.

I reiterate there are open minded theists and non-theists. It is to those I appeal to. I can not change another. Moreover it is not my duty or responsibility. Each is entitled to believe or not believe as meets their sensibility.

The reason why we have judgment, persecution, wars, sin, intolerance, prejudices and why we don’t grow or evolve societally is because this is unconscious mostly.

The most powerful and true quote of any religion or philosopher is by Carl Jung. “Until we make the unconscious conscious we will never evolve or meet our potential.”

Learning all the biblical verses or learning religious texts or collecting secular philosophy will not teach you to be self reliant.

Wisdom can not be taught. In my own humble view all of the religions are merely stepping stones in the right direction. I am spiritual. I am not religious, not in the bit.

Dogma constrains us. And we fool ourselves by going to church, learning verses, but never learn to think for ourself and walk a path in life where we discover the truth within us verses memorizing outdated religious verses that I’m many cases were structured in a Bronze Age.” LightSun

#Wisdom #dogma #openmind #spirituality #Path
Those who say religion is the main cause of human suffering, is this true?

“There are learned men and women of disparate belief and lack of belief. I for myself don’t believe in anything unless it can be proven by science in the here and now and the results replicated.

I personally don’t think humanity can evolve until we take responsibility for our own lives. Until we accept responsibility for our own salvation as Buddha acknowledges we shall never evolve.

This not waiting for a deliverer to come save us. Some say religion is the main cause of much of the worlds misery. I would say with religion or without it humankind would continue to do what is referred to as evil.

This is due to the power of our unconscious. Here lurks hidden unconscious stereotypes and prejudices.

As an addition blind spots, ignorance and cognitive distortions like emotional reasoning cause suffering.

Additionally rationalization and denial done in the name of love have led to many gross injustices and outright persecution.” LightSun
 
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