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Let's talk the dislike of religion and spirituality.

Red Memories

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I pose a few questions for you.

1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?

9. Do you believe that another person's religiousness impacts their of quality of character?

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)

(I rephrased question #9 from [MENTION=27952]Merced[/MENTION] suggestion. Thank you !)
 
Last edited:

Anantashesha

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[MENTION=33903]Red Memories[/MENTION] can you define what you mean by spirituality here?
 

Red Memories

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[MENTION=33903]Red Memories[/MENTION] can you define what you mean by spirituality here?

I define spirituality as a belief in a realm beyond our understanding i.e. spirits, ghosts, etc can be deemed as spiritual things to me. Spirituality can also refer to a belief in any sort of higher power or entity forming anything, or angels, etc.

Religion I define as an organized set of doctrines which define your belief system.
 

Anantashesha

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1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?
I don't think I've ever come across any religion that I just outright disliked. There are denominations I dislike, but not the religion as a whole. When I say "I dislike religion," I really mean I dislike the indoctrination and religious structure, no matter how positive it is.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.
Slighty. For the most part I'm neutral, but initially, I had distanced myself from it due to dislike borne from negative experiences (no, nothing happened to me personally, I just didn't like what I saw in the system). Too many people in religious settings are hypocrites, or are trying too hard. There are fraudsters, "But technically, this [negative action] isn't a sin, so it's fine,"- it's the spiritual equivalent of finding loopholes in the legal system so you could get away with reprehensible acts. It's two-faced, slimy, and I couldn't condone it.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?
Both. 'Belief' / 'believing' just doesn't compute with me.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?
Not necessarily, but both carry different connotations for me. For the most part folks who say they are 'not religious but spiritual' follow some kind other belief system or structure, no matter how esoteric (eg; their own idea of god or heaven, say). To me, the main idea behind it is the same still: a structured belief system based off only faith, so they are religious in another way.

When I think about 'spiritualism', I picture someone who doesn't necessarily believe in god, but live guided by their intuition that functions as a sort of moral compass and a guiding light through life. Their actions and motivations seem fueled by the belief that there is something beyond what can be experienced with the five senses- anything from ghosts to a belief in fate, purpose, and meaning. It's more malleable and varied than religion that hands you what to believe and follow on a silver platter.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?
I don't see why I should. People already believe and have faith in all sorts of things, and religion is just a form of faith.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?
To each their own. Some derive power and comfort from it.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
Conceptually, perhaps, just like how anyone can rationally discuss moral systems. There's no arguing facts in religion, however- it's just not logical nor are they based on facts. You don't have to be logical to be reasonable, however, and that in itself is a form of rationality- if you asked me, I'd tell you to just do whatever works for you- whatever prayer, whatever ritual, whatever diet- whatever it is. People who do follow religion do it because it works for them. Good results can't be argued with.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consider this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?
It depends on how they do it. Generally, I do see it as weak, but I don't judge where people get their daily bread from. As the above, the fact that it works for them is all that matters. I try to understand that there is merit in people making use of the resources available to them that works for them, and I in turn respect those who can respect my lifestyle (and not get in my face telling to do / not do XYZ lest I burn in whatever circle of whatever hell).

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)
Non-religious.
 

Lark

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I pose a few questions for you.

1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

It is difficult to generalize.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

It is and it isnt, I have experienced sectarianism, fundamentalism etc. although I have experienced it from ideologues too.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

I do not think that organized religion is untrue. I do not believe that unorganized religion is any better than organized religion for lacking organization.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

They mean the same thing to me, it is a false dichotomy.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

I dont believe that is possible, not religion as I understand it but if it where I would not.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?

It can be, it depends on many variables. It is difficult to generalize. It also means what is meant by belief. Does it mean affirm the existence or does it mean to hope, trust or have confidence in/expectations of?

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?

Yes. Or philosophy.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?

No.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)
[/QUOTE]

Yes, as I understand it.
 

Red Memories

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okay I shall answer my own questions as well

1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?: I do not really dislike spiritual belief as a whole. I do dislike anyone who tries to forcibly indoctrinate me to anything, so I tend to dislike the way some religions or churches work in that right.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.: Somewhat yes. I have always been a Christian, but some of the most harsh and judgmental people I've ever known call themselves Christians as well.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?: I think I dislike organized religion moreso than true belief. Belief is something you search for and find. Organized religion is often flawed and can become abusive in its own way.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?: Yes. I think there are many "religious" people who follow their church to a T without really having a relationship with their god, which makes them more religious than spiritual. A spiritual person may be more inclined to question the authority telling them how to translate their belief. They can go together though.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?: No. I do not feel religious belief in essence harms anyone.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?: No. It can be a sign of hope for many people who struggle. I think the way some people translate and abuse religious philosophy IS damaging though.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?: Yes. But we have to put our egos aside.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?: I don't find them inferior but I struggle to fathom that someone thinks our very complex universe came by random chance. But as I have heard more, I realize most atheists are more agnostic in nature - per say, they don't have enough evidence to say. Or know.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.): I am a non-denominational Christian. I was baptized as a Catholic but I've moreless left the Church.
 

Lord Lavender

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1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

I just don't like organized religion in general they can become too mired in social comfrimity and rules and regulations and stuff like they will be like *NUH YOU CANT WORSHIP THAT WAY YOU WILL BURN AND BE SMITED* and the poor deity is probably laughing at the mess :D. Its like im sure God wouldn't mind sharing space with Loki and Zeus.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.
No nasty personal experiences or traumatic backstories relating to religion here :newwink:

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?
Organized religion I dislike. It feels forced and a tool of social control but meh it has benefits like unity and cohesiveness and as anyone who has played a rts game having higher morale and everyone on tbe same page is a big benefit. The thing is sometimes religions like can become like anime fan clubs and get into petty wars over silly stuff like to me me freaking battle over whether priests were human or not felt like a anime shipping war that got out of hand he he he he he :D. Oooooh I wonder if the pathenons are laughing at us like the Indo European gods and Ambramic God (Who seems to love giving his followers different rules, seriously only allowing the Christian brance to eat pork now thats cruel come on no bacon but then pigs are smart animals so kindness :D).

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?
I see them as different things spiritually feels more hmmm personal like to me religious means you subscribe to a official code of sorts while spiritual is like ghosts,life force,aura and all that. The two exist separately like you can be neither,one or both. E.g a non spiritual Chriatian for example would be into scripture but they wouldn't care about the paranormal,the abstraction behind the actual scripture.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?
I would not at allllll :D. Religions bring a lot of richness and enrich our lives and culture and without relgion life would be a teeny bit more boring like no fun gods like thereed be no Percy Jackson books or anything. Plus despite what athetistic edgelords say religion has not imo regressed humanity at all in fact the church in the Middle Ages preserved a lot of knowledge. To deprive humanity of rich stories and myths and expiernces is to commit a great crime in my book.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?
I'm going to say no. Some people benefit from that sorta thing.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
Why couldn't they?. Provided everyone at the discussion is mature,open minded and hasn't come to grind a axe I see no reason a rational debate could take place

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consider this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?
As a believer of gods (I don't worship any nor pray but would be open to opening a connection with a god that I felt connected too) I don't deem them inferior. Well I might look down on them if they are narrow minded or dogmatic but that's because they are dogmatic pricks not because they are religious ya know.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)
Non religious but very spiritual like I'm into Zodaic and ghosts and the gods existing. I just don't mesh with churchy places.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

I mostly really just dislike forms of Protestant evangelism that place a lot of emphasis on belief and being part of the "tribe" while considering actual actions unimportant because "true believers are always forgiven."

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

I don't care for people wasting my time to convert me. Yes, I am aware of Jesus.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

I'm not even sure I dislike either.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

I'm not really sure what people mean by drawing a distinction except for the fact that spirituality is often seems to be used to refer to New Age practices while religion refers to Christianity.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

No. People would just find other things to fight about. Religion doesn't cause people to be assholes; people are assholes for other reasons. Usually the religion is just the tool they use to justify them being assholes. But people can find other ways to do so.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?

No, because it can sometimes give people motivation to move forward. I think it can provide a motivation to try and be a better person.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?

No idea.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?

No.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)[

I'm a lefty Jew who doesn't follow dietary laws but attends High Holy days services and celebrates Passover in addition to Christmas because I'm the product of a mixed marriage.
 

Totenkindly

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1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

I dislike how some are practiced. I am okay with religions in general when they are simply used for an individual to find their own way forward in life. Some people appreciate a structure to follow. Consider that we are all human beings but we have individual personalities. Religion frameworks are similar -- a person will have their personal framework to view the world through, and it's just a "flavor" rather than an oppressive hierarchy trying to dominate and eradicate other personalities.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

I have known some good people with spiritual or religious beliefs (well, I still know them!) I also know people from religious backgrounds/practices who i feel the practice is harmful to themselves or others... or at least has locked them in a non-evolving grip.

This is based on my 35-40 years in organized religion (protestant and/or evangelical, western practices), sometimes in leadership positions while feeling at disadvantage when I would have liked to be more vocal.

I definitely have had some awful and truly painful experiences dealing with dogmatic voices in my life, and it resulted once in me losing my entire support group in life. Sometimes I still get angry when I remember these experiences, but I don't blame the values and ideas necessarily, I just see those particular structures as bad and people being weak.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

I have reached a place where I am pretty such there is no god(s), although I'm not 100% sure, and I still also have embraced particular moral virtues. I do not have a problem with people who do believe there are god(s). I find unbearable, however, religions that demean or dismiss other reasonable beliefs, and/or that seek to implement their specific doctrines in political law to override others with different religious beliefs. Such people cannot be reasoned with and they are not interested in understanding other views because they have already decided they are wrong and even "evil" -- hence, they're like a cancer that eats up everything around it, the healthy and unhealthy alike... and typically the cancer itself ends up being the most unhealthy of all.

(Look at all these religious leaders in western religious faiths and how power and money inevitably corrupt them all.)

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

Religion is the structure, while spirituality is more like the principles.

So sure. Someone can think they are "good" because they promote a particular exacting "structure" for people to follow, but structures can be abused. The structure is also more of an extraverted construct, a list of external rules and practices to follow.

Spirituality is more about the internalized principles a person uses as their guidance. What they value, what they live and die for, what they will follow regardless of what happens in life.

Compare them to Fe and Te (religion), versus Fi and Ti (spirituality).

I don't think religion is necessarily bad. It is just an explicable structure that can be wielded to crush people who do not conform.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

How could religion ever be banned? Every human society has had religion. It just happens. I just don't think religion should dominate a political process, where people must come together for consensus; it tends to be less reasonable if it is the dominating factor and refuses to consider the needs of all the people by its nature.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?
Not necessarily. It can provide a light in the darkness for someone to follow, encouragement to continue, and so forth. If it works for you, great. it personally no longer works for me because I see the world a certain way, and so a lot of that feels like a lie -- regardless of whether someone else believes in one. But I don't begrudge them this. For me, it just isn't something I can do anymore.

It hurts sometimes to talk to my mother, who very much still follows the religious beliefs of her youth even into her 70's. I value her in the sense she is sincere and that she is more loving than judgmental -- and she has changed her views on some specific things over time, against the grain of others in her church, out of love. But it still hurts when she talks about heaven; I know she is scared I won't be there because she loves me; but at the same time, i can't follow her ways and beliefs. And i think sometimes in life it has led her into persisting with things that were not good for her (like staying with my father for so many years).

I think religion COULD be damaging if someone relies entirely on a power without taking personal responsibility.

One of the things that happened for me when I left conventional religion behind and no longer was sure about God -- I might not be sure about God, but I still believe in the principles that I had formerly credited to God, I realized those values were STILL mine, and even if there was no "God" to embody them, it was my responsibility to embody them. IOW, even if god doesn't exist, embody that concept of god in one's own life. Without a god, it was even more imperative I had to take responsibility.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
Yes. Look at Jewish rabbis and the non-dogmatic faiths. Sometimes they value multiple interpretations of the same scripture, and consider them all accurate or useful.

This was a huge eye-opener to me as I was leaving evangelicalism. I was used to there only being ONE ANSWER or ONE INTERPRETATION and if you didn't have it, you were WRONG and were not following God. And the whole goal was to make sure your doctrine was exactly right because otherwise you were a bad witness and even bad person. And of course, then, if you know the RIGHT answer, you have no choice but to tell everyone else how they are wrong, if you care about your faith and want to do RIGHT.

Anyway, theology that is not based on hubris is open to new ideas or views and can discuss them. Dogmatism cannot and typically leaves any discussion platform in ruins. We see this all the time on online forums, but it's also part of real-life engagements. Dogmatism is TERRIFIED of religions that have flex in them; they need to maintain their certainty.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?

No. I mean, I am human, and sometimes I can get frustrated... but I don't consider people with spiritual beliefs and values, or even people who have chosen a particular faith to express themselves through, to be inferior.

However, I think some people (regardless of religion belief) can be immature in how they are not willing to listen to other viewpoints and approach them reasonably, and if they have enough hubris to not just insist they are right in everything but also seek to impose it on others.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)

I already addressed this above a bit.

I was raised in Western Christianity and had some evangelical, non-denomination, and even pentecostal-style bits woven into me, but was always challenging them and at some point I could not longer persist. It was a painful experience growing and changing out of it -- first you struggle with believing you are falling away because the truth you are growing to see no longer conforms; then you change enough that you have more confidence in your changes but deal with the external judgments of others who see you as heretical; then you leave that community (probably) and grow into yourself more.

I stopped going to Christian church in 2010 -- either I found it unhelpful or I found it oppressive. (I think I last went to a Christmas Eve service in my old-style faith 8-9 years back, and my skin was just crawling the whole time, and I just haven't been able to go back. It was like religious PTSD for me.)

I kind of lie in the gray area now of atheistic existentialism vs absurdity. I believe meaning exists but it is chosen by the individual. I also believe that death is probably the end for each one of us. (I don't mean to depress anyone. I just don't see evidence of life after death, nor can much of it even exist.) I don't know these things 100%, they are just my inclinations after 50+ years of living and constantly experiencing and thinking about these things. If someone still does believe those things, it's okay by me; I just cannot accept it at this stage of my life.

This makes me sad in some ways. I hate the way religious people would say leaving the faith is "waving your fist in God's face." No, not for me at least. I know I was faithful and true for as long as I could have been, and then I had to be faithful and true to what I was seeing to be true. (Weirdly, if a god exists, I feel that this god would be proud of me because my process has been honest and sincere and merely a result of being a fallible human without full knowledge of the universe.)

I recounted this experience here a long time ago in a now-removed blog, but I had this dream one night in 2008 where I was walking through my house looking for god, as if he were my husband or a lover. We had been together for such a long time. Now I had awoken and I could still smell his scent and feel his presence lingering, but he had gently taken his things and left, for whatever reason.

I was not angry with him and did not blame him. I just felt like we had been together for the allotted time and now he needed to go, and it was up to me to carry on. I felt sadness and loneliness on some level because that time was now over -- kind of like the death of a loved one. They are gone, but you don't forget them, you think of them fondly, you miss them, and the way they changed your life will always stick with you. In a way, they are always with you even when they are gone. In a way, "god" had gotten inside of me and stopped being an external being. But it still hurt / saddened me, it was like walking through an empty house looking for your love and not finding them even while you can still sense them having been there.

Anyway... that's where I currently am. I am committed to just being authentic. If my life takes me me into a different awareness, my beliefs could change. I don't feel like my core values ever did. it's just that now they are my values, not my religion's values.
 

Morpeko

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I pose a few questions for you.

1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)

Where's question 7?
 

Morpeko

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I pose a few questions for you.

1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

I dislike all religions. I don't like any sort of "organized sets of doctrines" (as you've defined religion) and the organization of them all is a main reason why I'm put off by religion as a whole. I know that not all people who are religious have to congregate with those I consider to be "sheep" to take part in their beliefs, but it's a large amount of them. Also, I hate the spread of religion of any sort and a lot of the bigger groups try to do this.

Spirituality is more individualized and therefore more acceptable to me but I don't see the point in applying any of it in my life.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

I think my dislike ties into my hatred for society and larger social groups. Of course it goes into experiences of being forced to go to church and partake in worship sessions, and also from the judgmental Christian cliques at my middle school. But it's also from just hearing of what these larger religious groups do.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

I can't grasp true belief. It doesn't mean I dislike it inherently, although it does lead into the slippery slope of organized religion which I do hate.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

I agree with what you said. Basically, religion to me = organized set of beliefs from outer sources. Spirituality = inner beliefs.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

I would... but there are many things I would ban. I just hate organized religious groups with a passion and a lot of it is irrational.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?

Not inherently. It seems to give some people a reason to keep living which I envy. I hate atheists who bash religious people just because the atheists perceive them to be wrong. You're not doing them anything better by being an asshole telling them they're stupid for believing in a higher power, you just look like an ass...

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?

Just as rationally as any other philosophical subject. A lot of the time theological matters are discussed more rationally than politics...

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?

Nah, when I see people as inferior or superior to me it has nothing to do with religion. I kind of think I'm inferior and superior to everyone, in a way.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)

Agnostic atheist. I would usually just say atheist but that implies I did a lot of studying about it which I haven't.
 

The Cat

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Question number one had some fun
With Question number two, what did they do?
They went to question three who they liked to see
Who question number four, found a bore,
So he went for a drive with question number five
to see Question number six who liked to turn tricks
while question number seven went to heaven,
hey question number eight, aint that great?
Question number nine is doin just fine
cause she married number ten with a big money bin.
 

Red Memories

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I feel like I should now invent a question 7 but I like [MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION] 's explanation since "7" in christianity is supposed to be the number of perfection or completion as well? XD
 

ceecee

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1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few? Organized religions, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on spirituality dislike.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing. Hmm, not really. Raised Catholic, did reading and thinking on my own as a teen and said - if you can't be a decent person without some imaginary sky being telling you, you have issues. Or - "Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions, by inhibiting our decisions out of, out of fear of some, some intangible parent figure who, who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says, and says, "Do it... do it and I'll fuckin' spank you."

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion? See above

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious? Yes very much so although I've seen them overlap. In modern times, people differentiate the two and so I will as well for clarity.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not? Of course not. That's against the 1st Amendment. Please don't get any religious spatter on me or my secular government and we're cool.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not? If a person is unable to function in life without the higher power directing every component - that's a problem. But I think most people could use some secular therapy at the very least. This is a country overflowing with trauma, many use religion to address that trauma and that's a bad idea. One more reason health care for all would benefit so many seen and unseen issues.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters? Sure, people can rationally discuss anything.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you? No.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.) No although I like the serenity of some eastern beliefs and spirituality (Christianity is an eastern religion, no idea why anyone thinks it's western).
 

Vendrah

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1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?
Just organized religion, most, if not all, of them. I say that because I don't really know all world religions, there is more than the Christiamism and Islamism. Spirituality is not a big issue.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.
Yes, it is.
I came from a non-religious school to a religious school... And I got bullied in the religious school.
I did have my complains, I made directly complains, nobody cared.
Every week that school had a fight, most than half of them were girls fighting each other.
My own situation of being bullied was somewhat normal on that place.
They still all carried the morality and even somewhat made marketing with it.
I just realize that, in the end, they were just all seeking for heaven and 'salvation', while me and some other students were just suffering in front of them.
That experience made me go away from Christianity, slowly. The more I grew, more and more I became aware that people just want to go to heaven and that is it. They follow what they do not in their hearts, but to go to heaven, and some have quite of a pleasure into seeing others going to hell (or, rather, imagining it and pretending it is real).

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?
To be honest, as I said, true belief is a minority, I don't actually have spotted true belief much, even if people claim they do. I just know the organized religion. And, yes, I dislike it.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?
Hmmm... Sort of? Kind of yep.
Anyway, there is spiritualism as a religion. I read the brazillian intro to it (by force), I found the doctrine to be more reasonable than expected, even though not that much reasonable.

7. [just for the faithful] Observations?
Yup.
I think the major problem of religions is the, what I call in my own words, the "spread paradox".
If God is so-mighty powerful, then why e needs people to spread e own religion? I mean, why God would ever need the so-called 'mortals' to spread their 'word' when e is in a very good position to do it on h own, on a more efficient or even 'perfect' way? There are not ever truthfully reasons for that, just excuses. What is so called 'the truth' is a reality by definition. There is no spread of truth, because it is already spread by definition, just at best spread of information; Truth is a reality by definition; Truths that are not reality are just very good lies. And by reality, I mean in a concrete and abstract way.

There are more efficient ways to spread the truth than just putting it on a book that is going to miss points during a translation (like intuition - I even have my own hypothesis here).

What I see out there - this is heavy but mostly accurate - is that religion is a great path to conquer others. What I mean is, those who dictates what is the truth and what is right and wrong got a lot of power, the same power that people gave up when they "tertiarized" to others to define what is right and wrong for them, without them having even a ever-truthful thinking or sentiments on their own about that. Then, suddenly, it is not what makes sense, nor what really feels right, that guides them; It is what the books and those who control the books interpretation says. Whatever values coming from, not mattering if they were present even in animals or in the stone age, are values from that religion; They belong to that religion, not 'humanity' or universality. It is the religion who brings them, they don't exist without that specific religion (even when they are historically earlier to that religion), when actually they do.

The ultimate goal of any religion is to spread as much as possible and conquer the whole world; Because most, if not every, one of them claims to have that right. And they will put people to fight for it. These are what 'religionary' wars are for - two religions clashing and deciding who is going to conquer who. They will bring promises (heaven), they will say that those who are not conquered by them (aka are not their followers) are not going to heaven even if they are good people; Heaven is for the faithful; Faith is actually what you gotta do to follow them when their words no longer have any real meaning to you, when they don't have a feeling, when they lack any sense, when they seem to be disconnected from the reality. When there is nothing left except the very idea that you must blindly follow it, rewards are promised yet not much of reward will ever be delivered on this 'plane' or before death. However, faith based on lies is dangerous; And those who control your faith controls you.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?
I would ban every religious belief that make claims that they must conquer the world (including indirectly); Every religion who send its non-followers to hell by its own doctrine; Every religion that justifies making the life of others a living hell until they finally spread everywhere.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?
No.
The idea of God belongs to humanity, even if lots of religions try to steal that concept for them. Yup, I really feel and think that lots of religions are 'stealing' God, at least as a concept, for them. God is with them, you can only talk to God if you are with them; They dictate what Gods say, God can only speak through them. And that is really dangerous, reasons were already explained.
Just a simple belief in God, in a more natural and authentic way, and I speak of no 'organized religion', is not dangerous at all. It is very respectable, even when logic challenges some aspects of it.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
Yes and no.
When people have a book to defend, they will just defend the book. The same for institutions.
When they go beyond the book and beyond the the institution, them I think the matter can be 'rationally' discussed.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consider this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?
Yes and no.
I love to reciprocate the superiority feelings of others; But I can't mostly explicit do that, because those who do that have enough followers to attack me cowardly, but I do it at least mentally.
What I mean is... I see those religious people that see themselves as others inferior to them as inferior and scum.
I see those religious people who see others as equal as an equal.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)
Not religious, I am agnostic (not atheist).
I am at least 'seduced' to the idea of an afterlife, I think an afterlife is more likely than a non-after life, however I have no specific set that tells me with precision what afterlife is.
I have hopes for afterlifes, lots of hopes. To be in a place with no evil, to be at peace. But these are more hopes, slightly expectations, than certainties.
 

RadicalDoubt

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1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?
Dislike is the wrong word, but religion has always made me a bit uncomfortable as a concept. My discomfort isn't really directed at a singular religion, although things like "scientology" or sometimes the Mormon religion I think I might actually dislike. I think I may dislike more how people use religion sometimes then religion itself.

2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.
Yes and no. I don't like scientology/similar religions and such because from my understanding, it promotes beliefs that are legitimately false (rather then just something that cannot be proven in other religions) and have been shown in the past to promote cult-like behavior that really harms people on both a physical and spiritual level. In terms of my own experience, I come from a family submerged in a lot of... Hypocrisy. I've seen religion used to justify or bring false "redemption" for abuse, I've seen it used to persecute others, I've seen it create blind groupthink. To clarify again, there are really positive aspects of religion and being religious that I think are really beneficial to people and not every religious person is an issue, but I can't pretend to be a bit biased against it as a whole.

3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?
I dislike misconstrument of belief or people being manipulated by a belief system filtered through someone's subjective vantage. I guess somewhat of the latter. I have no issue with true belief and or some forms of organized religion.

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?
Not two mutually exclusive things, but by definition yes.

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?
Maybe the ones that have proven like... Actually harmful but generally no. Religion is really important to some people and isn't not entirely negative. It's not my choice what people believe in so long as they're not hurting others or killing themselves in the process.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?
No, it's just another perspective of looking at how the world is ordered. Philosophically, you cannot prove a higher power exists, but you also can't prove they don't exist. While I personally sit in the agnostic to atheist edge, I've seen belief in a higher power and the other philosophical ideas that come with it benefit others.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
Yes. There are physical texts, there are philosophical debates, and there are the compare and contrast you can do between religion.

9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?
Generally not unless they're misusing their religion.

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)
I used to be a bit more spiritual, but currently I'm non-religious and non-spiritual.
 

Red Herring

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I pose a few questions for you.

1. When you say you dislike religion or spirituality, do you dislike them all or do you dislike a few?

I dislike it when religion or spirituality is used to a) tribalized people (as in divide societies along faith lines), b) bully people and mess with their private affairs (i.e. LGBTI, divorced people,...) or ignore facts that don't fit your narrative (evolution, rejection of medicine in favor of prayers, magic gemstones or homeopathy). People have killed and tortured in the name of religion, many still do that today. But that is a problem I have with certain applications of religion, not with religion per e. I strongly dislike religiously founded social conservatism as it tends to cause unnecessary human suffering with no rational basus and is fundamentally unjust.


2. Is your dislike correlated to experiences? You are allowed to share if you so are willing.

I grew up in an areligious but not explicitely antireligious family. When I was 16 I spent a year in America as an exchange student with a Lutheran family in the Midwest. During that year I was confronted with a level of religiousness and prejudice against atheists that shocked me as I had never experienced it in Europe (and haven't experienced it since). I also once had an interesting conversation with a very nice American I met on vacation in Mexico years later. He was in his sixties but seemed to never have met an atheist before in his life. He asked questions like "Do you atheist have regular weekly meetings similar to Christian services?". He seemed to like me as well and said something along the line of "Such a shame, you seem like such a nice young lady!". I also have zero understanding for evangelicals or orthodox/strict followers of any religion as their way of thinking is so alien to me. The bewilderment is mutual.

I never felt as uncomfortable about and as singled out because of my lack of faith as I did during my year in America. Here in Europe I don't feel discriminated, misunderstood or hated on, in America I very much did.


3. Do you dislike true belief or do you merely dislike organized religion?

Both can give you strength, organized religion can hold a communty together. I sometimes think personal spirituality is worse and more dangerous than organized religion. Organized religion can trigger mobs to burn down buildings and kill people but normally the comunity kees itself in check. In the case of the Catholic church they move and reform slow as molasses but that rigidity keeps the worst extremists a bay. Free churches however radicalize much more easily. A private person just folowing their inner voice and own personal pirizuality is usually harmless and could be the sweetest person, but blindly trusting your intuition can also open doors to mental health problems. There is a grey area between religious fervor and psychiatric issues (of te Joan of Arc God has chosen me to kill all the infidels variety)

4. Do you distinguish religion and spirituality as two different things? i.e. can someone be religious but not very spiritual or spiritual but not very religious?

That distinction is mostly something I hear from theists, not atheists or agnostics. I normally don't make that distinction but am awaer it matters to a lot of People (mostly Christians in the Western world who see them self as too individualistic to feel like part of a faith community)

5. If you could ban religious belief, would you? Why or why not?

Nah. First of all because that would be totally invasive. Secondly because that sense of community can do a lot of good and religion can give hope in difficult life situations. Since education and wealth do correlate with a weakening of religious faith though I'd hope that as life improves for more and more people on this planet and war and starvation, etc. become less and less of a thing peole will automatically become less religious. Religiousness is a reaction to tough living conditions, I think.

6. Do you think a belief in a higher power is damaging? Why or why not?

Only when it lets you lay back and assume that the good lord will take care of things instead of working to improve things yourself.

8. Do you think people can rationally discuss theological matters?
Theology, yes. That implies citing a holy book or religious authority, exchanging arguments, etc. Sort of in the tradition of the Islamic enlightenment or the Talmud schools. Matters of faith not so much as per definition those are beyond the realm of argument and a question of feeling and intuition.
9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?

10. Are you yourself religious/spiritual/non-religious/etc? (you're welcome to be as specific as you'd like.)

I was raised a-religious in a family more grounded in science and humanism. I was neither indoctrinated for or against religion (though their might have been the occasional gentle mocking of blind faith in miracles). I do not believe in the existence of God because I do not know any convincing arguments in favor of that but I am also not actively, militantly convinced of his non-existence (basically Russel's flying teapot argument). Since I live in a country where religion is considered a private affair with roughly 1/3 atheist/agnostics, 1/3 Protestants and 1/3 Catholics (plus some 5% Muslim queeze in there) matters of faith hardly ever play a role in my everyday life. You can go minths without anybody publicaly mentioning God or the bible or their faith. Actually, outside of the major religious holidays religion plays next to no role at all in German public life. I know a lot of believers, but none of them are very actively practicing (with the exception of friends in America who almost all happen to be actively religious and place much more importance on religion than my other (mostly European) friends).
 

ceecee

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I dislike it when religion or spirituality is used to a) tribalized people (as in divide societies along faith lines), b) bully people and mess with their private affairs (i.e. LGBTI, divorced people,...) or ignore facts that don't fit your narrative (evolution, rejection of medicine in favor of prayers, magic gemstones or homeopathy). People have killed and tortured in the name of religion, many still do that today. But that is a problem I have with certain applications of religion, not with religion per e. I strongly dislike religiously founded social conservatism as it tends to cause unnecessary human suffering with no rational basus and is fundamentally unjust.




I grew up in an areligious but not explicitely antireligious family. When I was 16 I spent a year in America as an exchange student with a Lutheran family in the Midwest. During that year I was confronted with a level of religiousness and prejudice against atheists that shocked me as I had never experienced it in Europe (and haven't experienced it since). I also once had an interesting conversation with a very nice American I met on vacation in Mexico years later. He was in his sixties but seemed to never have met an atheist before in his life. He asked questions like "Do you atheist have regular weekly meetings similar to Christian services?". He seemed to like me as well and said something along the line of "Such a shame, you seem like such a nice young lady!". I also have zero understanding for evangelicals or orthodox/strict followers of any religion as their way of thinking is so alien to me. The bewilderment is mutual.

I never felt as uncomfortable about and as singled out because of my lack of faith as I did during my year in America. Here in Europe I don't feel discriminated, misunderstood or hated on, in America I very much did.




Both can give you strength, organized religion can hold a communty together. I sometimes think personal spirituality is worse and more dangerous than organized religion. Organized religion can trigger mobs to burn down buildings and kill people but normally the comunity kees itself in check. In the case of the Catholic church they move and reform slow as molasses but that rigidity keeps the worst extremists a bay. Free churches however radicalize much more easily. A private person just folowing their inner voice and own personal pirizuality is usually harmless and could be the sweetest person, but blindly trusting your intuition can also open doors to mental health problems. There is a grey area between religious fervor and psychiatric issues (of te Joan of Arc God has chosen me to kill all the infidels variety)



That distinction is mostly something I hear from theists, not atheists or agnostics. I normally don't make that distinction but am awaer it matters to a lot of People (mostly Christians in the Western world who see them self as too individualistic to feel like part of a faith community)



Nah. First of all because that would be totally invasive. Secondly because that sense of community can do a lot of good and religion can give hope in difficult life situations. Since education and wealth do correlate with a weakening of religious faith though I'd hope that as life improves for more and more people on this planet and war and starvation, etc. become less and less of a thing peole will automatically become less religious. Religiousness is a reaction to tough living conditions, I think.



Only when it lets you lay back and assume that the good lord will take care of things instead of working to improve things yourself.


Theology, yes. That implies citing a holy book or religious authority, exchanging arguments, etc. Sort of in the tradition of the Islamic enlightenment or the Talmud schools. Matters of faith not so much as per definition those are beyond the realm of argument and a question of feeling and intuition.
9. Do you see religious (for religious people, consder this for non-religious people) as inferior to you?



I was raised a-religious in a family more grounded in science and humanism. I was neither indoctrinated for or against religion (though their might have been the occasional gentle mocking of blind faith in miracles). I do not believe in the existence of God because I do not know any convincing arguments in favor of that but I am also not actively, militantly convinced of his non-existence (basically Russel's flying teapot argument). Since I live in a country where religion is considered a private affair with roughly 1/3 atheist/agnostics, 1/3 Protestants and 1/3 Catholics (plus some 5% Muslim queeze in there) matters of faith hardly ever play a role in my everyday life. You can go minths without anybody publicaly mentioning God or the bible or their faith. Actually, outside of the major religious holidays religion plays next to no role at all in German public life. I know a lot of believers, but none of them are very actively practicing (with the exception of friends in America who almost all happen to be actively religious and place much more importance on religion than my other (mostly European) friends).

I think if people adopted this approach, things would be far better here. Keep it to yourself, keep it out of my secular government. This is not difficult to grasp.

I would like to see religious entitles removed from health care as well they get the double advantage of tax exemption and being the only choice for care in so many places. I see all kind of political signs on church property now and that's fine if they want to get in the game. They can lose their tax exempt status too, just like all other non-profit political entities, if that's the train they want to get on.
 
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