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Learned Fe

redacted

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Nov 28, 2007
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Just to let you all know: being nice to people and/or relating to them in social situations does not have to come from Fe. Fi can do the trick through an extroverted function.

Fi doesn't only care about the user. It cares about the things that are important to the user.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
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INTJ
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Dissonance/ Jack make great points.
 

INTJMom

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Just to let you all know: being nice to people and/or relating to them in social situations does not have to come from Fe. Fi can do the trick through an extroverted function.

Fi doesn't only care about the user. It cares about the things that are important to the user.
I'm horrible at Fi.
Am I supposed to have any of that?

Oh good. It's my tertiary.
It should be kicking in pretty soon.
 

substitute

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Depends what's meant by 'developing Fe'... if you mean developing the ability to be more aware of other's feelings and to behave in a more considerate manner, I don't see how it isn't obvious why this would be worth learning to do, however difficult it might be...

If you're talking about ACTUALLY caring about other people, I don't think that's something people do learn on purpose, but I can say that my attachment level in that sense to the cares of other people has become greatly augmented both from what it used to be and what's 'normal' for my type. But I didn't deliberately set out to 'learn' that... it's just come naturally as a side effect of other areas in which I've more deliberately developed. As I made more of an effort to cultivate the more shallow aspect of Fe, I found that I got to know people in a way I hadn't before, which led to developing a greater understanding of them... that in turn led to a greater sense that actually, I'd greatly underestimated 'people' in general all my life, and much of the reason I had previously been so detached was because I considered most people not worth attaching to. As I understood more people more deeply, having this opportunity 'bought' for me by deliberately showing better manners and consideration, thereby making people trust me more and more willing to open up to me, I realized that part of the basis for my previous detachment was actually false, and that in fact many people who I would previously have considered not worth attaching to, are actually very much worth it.

That in turn has led to a greater appreciation of humanity in general... and on and on...

edit - I'm not quite sure how this connects with the 'expressing/showing your own emotions' side of Fe... I guess I have started to show them more, but I'm still a bit of a cow with a gun about it all, don't really understand them myself... possibly due to Fe developing way ahead of Fi?
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
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Yin
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One
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sx/sp
I use to have very, very little regard for other people. Various experiences resulted in me developing that a bit, the most important of which was probably coming out of my relational shell and making friends with the ENFP I know.

Now I have an emotional attachment to some people, and I also have a more pragmatic understanding of why maintaining order even among people I'd don't particularly care about is beneficial.

I still have a big problem with recognition, though. I'm quite bad at knowing what people think of what I've done, or what they will think of what I am going to do. I try to use descriptive factors to determine how people have responed or will respond, but try as I may, I'm apparently terrible at it. It's a major contributer to why I don't have many acquaintences.
 

Tallulah

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Messages
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Depends what's meant by 'developing Fe'... if you mean developing the ability to be more aware of other's feelings and to behave in a more considerate manner, I don't see how it isn't obvious why this would be worth learning to do, however difficult it might be...

If you're talking about ACTUALLY caring about other people, I don't think that's something people do learn on purpose, but I can say that my attachment level in that sense to the cares of other people has become greatly augmented both from what it used to be and what's 'normal' for my type. But I didn't deliberately set out to 'learn' that... it's just come naturally as a side effect of other areas in which I've more deliberately developed. As I made more of an effort to cultivate the more shallow aspect of Fe, I found that I got to know people in a way I hadn't before, which led to developing a greater understanding of them... that in turn led to a greater sense that actually, I'd greatly underestimated 'people' in general all my life, and much of the reason I had previously been so detached was because I considered most people not worth attaching to. As I understood more people more deeply, having this opportunity 'bought' for me by deliberately showing better manners and consideration, thereby making people trust me more and more willing to open up to me, I realized that part of the basis for my previous detachment was actually false, and that in fact many people who I would previously have considered not worth attaching to, are actually very much worth it.

That in turn has led to a greater appreciation of humanity in general... and on and on...

edit - I'm not quite sure how this connects with the 'expressing/showing your own emotions' side of Fe... I guess I have started to show them more, but I'm still a bit of a cow with a gun about it all, don't really understand them myself... possibly due to Fe developing way ahead of Fi?

I can very much identify with this. And I find that I relearn the lesson of opening up to people and finding them worthwhile, over and over. It just doesn't stick. I do tend to default to my more natural mode of being a loner, and only finding a handful of people interesting. It's always baffled me. I do hope that one day, I'll get used to the idea enough that it becomes a part of me.
 

substitute

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yeah... well it can have other less desirable effects on me... Ne occasionally being led by Fe tends to mean I sometimes pretty much become a slave to other people's feelings, concerns and considerations. I become so absorbed in considering others' points of view that I pay no attention to my own feelings or views, become oblivious to them as internal judgement disappears and judgement AND perception are both externalized. It can be quite messy...

Yet as soon as I leave the company of others, things start to regain perspective again...

I'm working on trying to get Ti and Fe working together, rather than Fe overriding Ti as it sometimes does, much to my confusion and bewilderment... as I say, without much in the way of Fi this tends to mean I'm temporarily imprisoned, immobilized by others' feelings, unable to place them in perspective of either my own knowledge or feelings.

It's kinda like "I can't do that because it'll upset X, so maybe I should do this... but that might upset Y... but X and Z said to me also that they need that other thing... and... and..." impossible to make a decision, and my own needs are just nowhere in the picture.
 

Tallulah

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yeah... well it can have other less desirable effects on me... Ne occasionally being led by Fe tends to mean I sometimes pretty much become a slave to other people's feelings, concerns and considerations. I become so absorbed in considering others' points of view that I pay no attention to my own feelings or views, become oblivious to them as internal judgement disappears and judgement AND perception are both externalized. It can be quite messy...

Oh, yes! I do the same. And Ti is no help, because all I'm doing is taking in and organizing data. And chameleoning. And then I feel strange because I feel comfortable in the role of observer until I realize I should probably have an opinion.
 

Ism

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Hmm... I think, in regards to what typically defines the Fe function, I have obtained/ become conscious of those attributes. Eye contact, nodding your head, speaking up, standing up straight, voice inflection...

Well, actually, those are just key traits that help move you along and open up more connections, as well as convey an atmosphere or poise/ confidence. I'd say all that compromise/ listening/ an attempt to care are just social skills necessary for interaction.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
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From observation of people on this forum, I have seen several members who seem to have almost taught themselves to use Fe to a much greater degree than they probably naturally would use it. I'll admit to having taught myself to be a lot nicer and more diplomatic than I was when younger, because it gets me my way and wins arguments more frequently.

I was just wondering about others' inputs-

why would you develop a trait that you would not naturally use as much?

what are the benefits of this?

does it ever feel like it was a learned, as opposed to natural, trait?

Replying to OP (while only glancing at the rest of the replies). All cognitive functions have their uses. Just a matter of using them in the appropriate ones. The use of Fe (or Fe like behaviour) has its perks. Which is why people, whether it's their dominant or auxiliary function or not, is worth while practicing.

The point of developing a trait or any skill is to become more proficient at it such that you can apply it when you need it. It is like learning different languages. Your mother tongue might be English, but it doesn't mean you cannot learn fluent Spanish or French. You might not naturally use the two, but when you need to you can. More tools in your belt really. ;)

I've actually actively try to develop my weaker functions... Mostly Ti, Fi, Se.

In response to Night and dissonance, a tool is a tool as long as it works. It makes little difference whether you call it Fe or Fi. As long as it gets the job done. Does the distinction between Fe vs Fi matter?
 

ZiL

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A major reason I kick the Fe in gear is that I hate it when others misunderstand something I've said or think I'm incompetent about something because I've worded something badly. I've always been VERY sensitive disproportionate reactions towards me, so I'm very considerate of how I communicate based on who I'm talking to.

I think I have an unusually high Fe impulse thanks to my mom being an ISFJ and my best friend of 10 years being an ESFJ.

Now...Se and Te? I dunno how that'll work. I could really use a dosage of Te abilities.
 

mlittrell

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if Fe is in your type then there is no point to learning it, it should come naturally. for example, and ENFJ shouldn't have too much of a problem, and really, neither should an ENTP. BUT, for an ENFP like myself who doesn't have Fe in my top 4 functions, i tend to "create" Fe by using my Ne and Fi to create a synthetic form of Fe. it is not true Fe, just created Fe. (ENFPs CANT have Fe in their main 4 because their main 4 are defined as Ne Fi Te Si, if you take a function test and it says you have Fe, it is getting it confused with Ne mixed with Fi)
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
I believe that due to my very strong character, I have recieved a lot of F thrown in my face as a defense mechanism from other people. In turn I have learned from an early age that Fe shows humanity and especially vulnerability, stopping some clear destructive paths before they start.

Unfortunatly the only time I engage my Fe in an unnatural way is when under a lot of preassure. I am usually a self sificent machine of answers and capability, and when I can recongize that I alone am not capable, I must convince others who are convinced that I never need anything, of my motivations, efforts, and end result in order to bring about resolution and not failure. In order to convince people of my genuine concerns I must make myself something they can relate to on their level, because trying to get them to understand mine takes too long. This involves proving that my motivations arent soley for my gain.

I am not sure if that is Fe or where that pattern came from, but it makes me uncomfortable and it is also easy to fall into because it proves to be efficient. Ill tell you it sucks to be an enthusiastic problem solver sometimes listening to the your so strong and your smart you will find a way to pull it off. For some reason when people see you as capable they meet you with more opposition than necessary. Sucks.

Is that Fe?

I guess what I am saying is that it is helpful for cooperation. It is my give.
 

niffer

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"Channeling" my Ne in a way, through Fe, makes using Fe more comfortable I find. It's definitely something I learned over the years, and now I'm better at it than most other extraverts I know. I actually do enjoy using it because it enables me to be more engaged socially, which makes my E-ness tingle happily. My Fe is pretty damn good, but I'm still an awkward child.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Growing up in a smaller city forced me to make due with those around me; this unavoidable social obstacle (if indeed an obstacle it was/is) made me work things out with others, if I wanted to succeed/enrich my ambition. In retrospect, I'm quite happy that I learned to seek a sense of cooperation, as opposed to competition, with others. This exchange allowed me into areas once foreign, as a result of my sharpened Fe.

Yup. I was in a situation where I was basically alone except for my family (I lived in rural PA, so most of my time was spent either by myself wandering through the fields or else having to survive my crazy mixed-up home situation, I didn't have many friends around at first and even when I was older it was still a lot of effort to make contact).

My mom is also very Si+Fe and really little else, unfortunately, she could not grasp anything I'd say to her. Life was simply about conforming to how you'd been brought up, and how you treated people. Very kind-hearted; very unable to understand other people's viewpoints. Fe was the only thing she understood. You could explain an idea to her but it would run out of her brain like water through a sieve and she would be immediately right back where she was before any conversation.

My dad was a brash overbearing alcoholic ESTP. You could never win an argument, he would do his best to make you feel stupid and never truly engage in a discussion, and he would override everyone around him with what he wanted regardless of the impact (because he either was too insensitive to notice or just didn't care when he did). A nice and talented guy in public; but home life was hell. Avoidance was the best policy; Fe was the next, just to keep my nose very clean and give him no excuse to come after me.

Note that at the same time I was absorbing that ability and honing it, I was also very very frustrated by xSFJ types imposing their social standards on me; it really upset me. It was one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. I did not develop Fe-like ability to draw boundaries to PROTECT myself until much later in life.

Because Fe can also be used to do that, when appropriate. It doesn't just allow you to extend yourself for others, it can be used to determine the extent of how much we let others influence us.

Remember - adherence to rules/etiquette does not imply sincerity. Keep this thought in your pocket. People are complex creatures.

Definitely.

Fe functions as a handshake; Te is a clenched fist.

Nice image. And the handshake can also cloak a poisoned needle, while the clenched fist might just be extending you money. The approaches are different, but both can be positive or negative and used sincerely or insidiously.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
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You write very well, Jennifer.

Very elegant.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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I did not develop Fe-like ability to draw boundaries to PROTECT myself until much later in life.

Because Fe can also be used to do that, when appropriate. It doesn't just allow you to extend yourself for others, it can be used to determine the extent of how much we let others influence us.
You would think that would be Fi. I guess is it's an external standard you use to draw the boundaries (such as how much it is commonly seen as appropriate for a person to influence another)?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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You would think that would be Fi. I guess is it's an external standard you use to draw the boundaries (such as how much it is commonly seen as appropriate for a person to influence another)?

yes, that's it.

I realized that they were being intrusive and it was perfectly acceptable socially for me to draw the boundary and I wasn't actually violating the accepted rule.

If I move inward to an internal judging process, it tends to be a sense of "it's fair in a relationship for both sides to invest the same amount" or something else that is actually very impersonal and treating the people like objects to be balanced out (parts of an equation).

I still don't tend to protect my "self" as well as I should, I drain it either by inadvertently ignoring it or expecting too much of my own inner resources, or by trying to conform to a social expectation/responsibility.

When I try to do something 'for me' just because I want to or feel like doing it, the choice always leaves me uneasy, unsure, confused, and whatever else. it's like trying to drive the car while wearing a blindfold. it's much more instinctive and immediate to see either the general impersonal principle at work (Ti) and apply it or to be aware of the social expectation (Fe) and accommodate it.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
15,879
Fe functions as a handshake; Te is a clenched fist.

Would that mean that I am a bad person?

Since my Fe:Te ratio is about 1:13 toward the function test that is going around.
 
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