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Key Differences Between INFJ and ENFJ

Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
548
Hello everyone! How is everyone this lovely Saturday afternoon (where I am at)? It's a little bit dreary, but sometimes I like weather like this with still a bit of dew and rain from a storm/shower last night.

I wanted to post this earlier, but I got a bit distracted. I just wanted to tie up some loose threads between what I would consider a minor altercation between myself and another forum member.

I would prefer there not to be any bad blood between us, and I take responsibility for any ill will I might have induced, but I still feel a duty to speak my mind: for this reason:

I do believe that accurately typing oneself is important, because it allows one to understand oneself. Yes, if you are intelligent, you might be able to fob off some other typings, but intelligence and type don't have that much of a correlation, IMO. Intelligence and type synthesize more influence the character of the intelligence. That's all I want to speak about currently because typing more, I feel, would constitute a derail.


-------- (pt 2. written previously)


Awhile ago, I accused тень of being an ENFJ— Perhaps it was wrong of me to be so bold, but I feel like I am fairly accurate with my typings over 90% of the time.

Please keep in my mind that I have studied psychology (from “college-level” textbooks as well as books in the psychology section of Barnes and Noble) since I was about 11, and then switched my focus to MBTI/JCF since I was 18, so I have spent quite a number of years perfecting my theory.

I have had an ENFJ mentor and an ENFJ roommate, so I have had about 4 years combined to study the behavior of male ENFJs up close and personal— platonically.

Perhaps one could view this as an attempt to clear my name, and perhaps it is, in a way.

I do apologize for being so brash and assertive during our first more in-depth exchange, but I guess I feel I was unfairly mistreated in that:

a) I did not give additional details for the reasons of my beliefs
b) The conversation derailed into name-calling and evasiveness and almost schoolyard team-building pretty quickly (though I take 50% of the responsibility there)
c) I attempted to build a political alliance, which I think bespoke to the fact that although I do not consider ENFJs evil, I believe every type is prone to certain character weaknesses, and I felt, at the time, I was doing a good thing by pointing it out, particularly since I had noticed this individual had beckoned from a history of switching types, a possibility that maybe they had not considered; during my attempt to make the political alliance, I believe my attempt to have a truce was rebuffed, perhaps because someone or several people took offense at my supposed foray into ‘willful animal cruelty’ which was more of an abstract reference to try to ‘expose’ INFJ-ENFJ relations more clearly, but perhaps, was too abstruse and irrelevant at the time
d) I concede that perhaps some people can somewhat exemplify more than one type, so it is possible, for this individual to display characteristics that are reminiscent/stereotypical of two types (which I alluded to in my short description, though for, the sake of some playful mystery, I will leave my audience to deduce the conglomeration to which I refer), but to my limited knowledge currently, most people are wired to one default type, and at the time, I believed I was behaving benevolently to ‘point this out.’ But. Perhaps I was wrong in more ways than one.

Thank you in advance for your time and patience.


--- (pt. 3 written previously)


Key Differences Between INFJ and ENFJ

Both types commit the fatal character flaw that it is okay to play others to serve their own grandiose of how society ‘ought to be’ run.

ENFJ are generally much more subtle with their emotions due to inferior Ti— a mitigating influence.

Due to inferior Se, INFJ have a reputation for exploding into theatrics when they don’t get their way.

The goal of the INFJ is to police others so that society is run according to the INFJ’s moral vision of how ‘things ought to be.’ Due to the Ni-Se axis of constantly revising beliefs based on new information (under-reliance on Si for emotional stability), INFJ garner a reputation of both hostility and hypocrisy, which they then try to reconcile through reliance on other functions.

The goal of the ENFJ is to create a group where their personal skills and characteristics are considered indispensable. To this end they may often play the victim card that they are ‘secretly brilliant but under appreciated.’ The ENFJ primarily finds them drawn to both INTPs and ENTPs for the first group are intelligent in a way the ENFJ consider supplementary, complementary, and completely non-threatening (as the ENFJ likes to underhandedly boast that Fe-Ni is capable of coalescing more useful and broad societal facts than Ti-Ne) and ENTPs due to an almost symbiotic association/playful rivalry between depravity and cruelty: The ENFJ feels magnanimous toward the ENTP penchant for trickery and double-dealing usefulness, while the ENTP feels accepted by dominant Fe, feeling that one’s own depravity can be mitigated and redeemed through the ENFJ penchant for ‘warm’ benevolence.

The ENFJ must feel indispensable and so to this end employs a myriad gambit of socially manipulative techniques to ensconce what they believe their role in their tribe should be given their penchant for strategic self-denigrations ‘magnanimity witchcraft.’


--- pt. 4


Once again, I apologize if I employed a mournful or scolding tone-- I really did not intend to be so deliberately provocative. Once again, I thought by contributing some details of what it "felt at the time" to be at the receiving end of what I perceived to be magnanimous Fe+Ni coupled with a few other dominant functions, that I was being productive. I apologize if my tone elicited any group grievances, but would appreciate if we might be able to continue this dialogue solely based on the power of observation alone.


- - - Updated - - -

Once again, I truly apologize if it seems I'm rubbing salt in the wound or something like that.
 

Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
548
I wanted to post about this because this might be the most controversial inter-type relationship post on this forum that it’s ever seen. (edit: I wanted this to be my title, but it's too many characters for the Title: [box])


No, I’m not perfect, and I’m not a grammar nazi, and I’m generally vague and hazy and imprecise with my thoughts unless I’m trying to prove something (I’m basically a lazy intellectual unless there is a subject which genuinely interests me, that’s when my brain “deserves” to be turned on, just like my mother once said about herself, because my mother and I are VERY similar people metaphysically, except I think she is a bit crueler/more judgmental than I am, IMO).


In my opinion, 4 years ago, I broke up with Zang. He may argue it differently, but the reason I broke up with him, is because I felt was he was essentially a cruel and morally bankrupt person who only cared about his theory/his mind, and not about other people. He would constantly insult other people, consistently take credit for other people’s accomplishments, and try to convince me that his attitudes/way of valorizing others was the only valid system in the world, and other people ought to feel enlightened/gratuitous for ministrations/attentions.


It’s not that in my view, I disagree with his primary thesis: That there are a lot of bad people in the world who exhibit various levels of aspects of ‘demonic spirits,’ it’s more that I disagreed with the way he went about proving these things.


I really believe that deep down inside, true kindness is the only way into other people’s hearts, and true kindness follows from admission of one’s own faults and true comfort with one’s own spiritual vulnerabilities. I don’t believe the average person, and by average, I mean someone who has been “coddled” by one’s own culture, familial interests, patriotic/national interests, etc, is going to be that keen in essentially invalidating every single relativistic value that individual has been indoctrinated to carry on the legacy of his/her species. I have not seen a certain modicum of kindness that I believe I still need to see/hear from Zang.. I don’t know, a kind of ineffable compassion that is not tied into a deterministic outcome, just a kind of love, pure and true, to truly love others despite their faults, despite what others have done to oneself, to love, and to continue to love people, despite all their faults, peccadilloes, and continual failings and strivings. I still sense a kind of brutish dictatorship of sorts, a sort of metaphysic-ontologically justified brutish sense of iron will, which ignores all the details of its own relentless unkindness, because the “bigger picture” is worth all the petty destructions. I don’t know if I’m right or wrong in my character assessment, but this is how I feel/evaluate things currently. I am not trying to be condemnatory, blame-making, or truly, taking any own justifications for my own perpetual sense of explosive withdrawals, I am simply stating, pure and simply, how I feel about the state of my own mental/emotional life, and what has been the myriad small impetuses and a million deaths of my own fractuous and imperfect soul.


I met and fell in love with someone, for the first time in my life, last year, during this national/international COVID-19 crisis. I mis-typed him initially, but now I understand why, but what is more important/dear to me, is that I believe he really is an ISFJ, a type that is barely represented in the MBTI community, and even though I can’t make the generalization (yet :p jk) that ISFJs are my favorite type, this guy has become, truly, my favorite type in the entire world.


He is gentle, so gentle, he is like the world’s kindest butterfly who would never harm a single soul, but also tough and practical- a true planner. He, like me, has lived his whole life for the sake of others— he started his own marketing agency at the young and precocious age of early 30’s, even though his parents divorced, he has bent his whole psyche around creating a harmonious metaphysic around each of their realities, he is able to make his ENTP business partner respect him and put his needs first, he is commanding, brutally honest about what he values in himself and other people, and just a wonderful/balanced person to be around with. His only weakness, and he admits this to me, is that he thinks he’s a wee bit too practical for me, but even this admission, is the sweetest music to my ears, because it shows that he is observant, and not just faux or pandering observant, to the very real observable and distinctive differences between individual characters and he won’t beat around the bush when he discerns incompatibility.


I don’t believe ethics is connected to type. When I mention ethics, it means for me, the courage to be oneself despite what others think, the courage to love and continue loving despite all reasons to embrace loneliness, withdrawal, and self-hatred and hatred of others, inclusivity and diversity surrounding the correct values as opposed to inclusivity and diversity encompassing any possible value that someone could incorrectly draw, and just honesty and truth, divorced from any hope for personal gain. For me, that last one is the most important, and the quality that I see missing from most people’s lives. From what I understand currently, it’s not connected to any cognitive function, and I don’t believe Fe should be demonized. Fe, to me, represents a rather naive and understated form of prioritizing the happiness of other people even at the expense of more important “truths,” but is not happiness and well-being itself a very important societal value? There is nothing wrong with having a collectivist striving towards social well-being and welfare; this seems common to both Fi and Fe dominants. The only difference between Fi and the way it approach social welfare is that Fi will project its own feelings to influence others in this regard, whereas Fe will leverage the feelings of the collective, but the end result is the same. Why the enmity?


Zang has mentioned he has has previous antipathetic feelings towards Fe— I don’t know whether they still exist or not, but people being happy is not a bad thing— it is a very good thing, in my opinion. What would he rather have— unhappy and gloomy and fighting people who know ‘the truth as he sees it’ or happy, productive people, who might not see the whole picture, but see bits and pieces of it as it pertains to them, but are still happy in the menial bits of knowledge that they feel an affinity for?


All I want in this world is balance, and demonizing one group of people, and playing political factions against each other, is not the answer.


Side note: If you want to learn more about how I feel/what I think about ISFJs, or this ISFJ in particular, and why I admire him so much, and why being around him makes me (an INFJ) feel like such a shitty person, please click this link. Thanks in advance.
 

Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
548
Viktor is one of the greatest representations of what a ‘Dark INFJ’ is capable of, in cinematic history.

When I was a young child, I was obsessed with the idea of a superior species to humans, but the superiority stemmed from, primarily, physical superiority.

Would they co-exist with humans, or co-opt humanity as their slaves?

Vampires are not only more beautiful, but they are also far deadlier, more ruthless/cunning, purportedly sensual, and of course immortal.

My INTP best friend would introduce me to a lot of weird, dark movies, which I don’t want to discuss now, but I really found myself being drawn to series she didn’t find herself emotionally drawn to.

One of those series was the Underworld Series (original, evolution, rise of the lycans, etc.)

I revisited this series year later, and kind of became obsessed with Bill Nighy’s portrayal of Viktor, a supreme ‘vampyr lieutenant’ who had to make the moral decision to

a) not only betray his superiors but
b) to do so in the service of protectorship and provinciate-ship of his race.

The moral dilemma introduced by Viktor’s appearance in Rise of the Lycans was that he believed his superior, one of the original immortals, had been corrupted from sympathizing with his uncontrollable and destructive sibling, a man who had been bitten by a wolf, and so not only was capable of transforming into a rampaging lunatic, but also couldn’t stop himself from creating more.

Viktor exerts his executive/moral control by subtly betraying his ‘viceroy’ and performing executorship by banishing the werewolf.

However, this series of events obviously traumatizes his soul, as he is no longer able to extend compassion and grace to either vampires or werewolves because of he perceived as others’ moral failings.

For example, henceforth, most if not all werewolves are captured and held in service of his vampire clan, a strategic/political move that Viktor believes is holy and merciful.

Viktor also prevents his own daughter from carrying out a clandestine relationship with a wolf-man of more noble bearing, out of pathological fear that the ‘violent and rampaging’ werewolf gene would eventually overtake her.

Viktor, who was eventually defeated by his surrogate daughter, Selene, is a very good popular cinematic example of an INFJ who succumbed to templar/executive/moral hatred, but could find no other way to combat the chaos induced by his trauma but by destroying the nobility and freedom of a race with more possibility and hope to evolve.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,680
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
enfjs are louder.
 

Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
548
I kindly request that the mods actually cancel this thread entirely, since part of the purpose of this thread, was to meta-troll a meta-troll, who then I called out on in the open, only to find my post deleted. It makes me feel that this forum is protecting certain people that are actually recalcitrant trolls, which I admitted in my initial posting, was perhaps something I had questioned at the outset, but then, accordingly, took a firm stance against, only to have my position deleted.
 

Doctor Anaximander

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
19,311
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
the cult starter vs the cult leader.


nah, just kidding
 

Hypatia

just sailing for proofs
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
548
Heh heh.

Well… it’s a start. But more to the point… I think I know where your political sympathies lie… and it… makes me a little conservative.
 
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