INTJ and ISFP Relationships

[highlander]

What do you think about relationships between INTJs and ISFPs? The focus of this is really on romantic relationships but it also makes sense to discuss your experience in situations where these two types interact in a significant way – such as friendship, at work, etc.

When it’s working – What are the joys and positive aspects of these relationships?
- How compatible do you think these two types are in general?
- Why are they attracted to each other?
- How to they compliment each other?
- How well do they understand each other and why?
- What are they like together raising children?

When it’s not working – What are the challenges when two people of this type are in a relationship?
- What are some of the communication challenges they can have?
- What are the biggest frustrations between these two types?
- How can they take each other for granted?
- What happens with things “go wrong” between these two types?

Advice for couples – What recommendations do you have?
- What things should each type do to facilitate better communication?
- What advice do you have for each of the two types?
- If you are an INTJ, what advice do you have for the ISFPs?
- If you are an ISFP, what advice do you have for the INTJs?

 

[great_bay]

Yes, I too am interested in this relation. Whenever I think of ISFP and INTJ, I think of Harry Potter and his blonde rival.

 

[BadOctopus]

My sister is an ISFP, and we are like oil and water. We've never been close, as we don't have anything in common and don't understand each other at all.

I'd be interested to know what a good relationship between these two types might be like.

 

[highlander]

I guess I can speak to this one but it is with the caveat that it was a long time ago and we were both young. My first girlfriend was an ISFP. We met freshman year in college. There was a guy I met the first week of school that I quickly became good friends with that lived next door to her. I liked her for at least a couple of months before he finally helped to introduce us at a dance. I asked her out to a movie and after that, we quickly became inseparable. We were together for about three years – first love, first everything and all that.

As to what attracted us to each other, I can only speak to what attracted me to her. She was pretty, with beautiful eyes and a great butt . She was very smart – ranked third in her high school. She was nice. I guess what I quickly realized is that she wanted to be around me and that was attractive as well. There was a kind of emotional chemistry that is hard to explain. We were very close and knew practically everything about each other. Though serious and often too conservative for my tastes, she was kind of silly and funny at times, which I loved. She liked to buy me cards – like the ones you get at the pharmacy and write cute funny things in there. I really liked those. She was a person who had a great depth of emotion with a deep capacity for love, and it is special to be in a relationship with someone like that.

As to the problems, it is difficult for me to say precisely what parts of this were related to incompatibility and which parts were my being too young and not ready for such an intense relationship. I recall thinking, “uh-oh” in the first few weeks because I’d fallen in love with the girl and just wasn’t ready for that. The things that I did not like were:

Indecision – She avoided making decisions even on trivial matters, which forced me to always have to decide everything, which I didn’t want to do. Though there were times, about stupid things, when she could be as stubborn as a mule.

Communication – I’m a pretty open and direct person. She could not articulate her feelings very well. You can't imagine how little she talked. I grew to be fairly expert at reading her facial expressions and body language but as an 18 – 20 year old INTJ, this is not something that came easily for me.

Mental Connection – Though we were both reasonably intelligent, we didn’t have an intellectual connection really. She wasn’t someone that wanted to have intellectually stimulating conversations, which I like to have. I would ask her what she thought about this or that and she just wouldn’t have an opinion. I think conflict in general was threatening or uncomfortable to her, which leads to the next point.

Upsets – As I was fairly blunt and clueless, having never had a girlfriend before, it seemed that I would often say things that hurt her feelings. There would be this cycle of my offending her, then us making up, which was nice but the drama was stressful for both of us. In general she was always worried about what other people thought, which I didn’t so much care about and that led to tension between us. From a type standpoint, I guess you could say there was a dynamic of my auxiliary Te interacting with her inferior Te and maybe my tertiary immature Fi interacting with her dominant Fi. If I were to guess her enneagram type, it is probably of the 6 phobic variety, so you can imagine how two 6s would be like together.

In the end, she left school, we started seeing other people and she found another guy that she ended up marrying and is still married to. He is a construction worker. So that was that. I think she hoped to get married some day but ultimately gave up on me. I did connect with her a few years ago, which maybe I can speak to later, which ended being a bizarre and very strange thing.

 

[great_bay]

My sister is an ISFP, and we are like oil and water. We've never been close, as we don't have anything in common and don't understand each other at all.

I'd be interested to know what a good relationship between these two types might be like.

How can't you not understand each other if you guys have the same function and both of you are introverted?

 

[highlander]

How can't you not understand each other if you guys have the same function and both of you are introverted?

It is an interesting point. I recall Dario Nardi saying that when he did testing of brain patterns on INTJs and ISFPs, as they got older, it was hard to tell the difference between the two of them. They started looking alike.

 

[BadOctopus]

How can't you not understand each other if you guys have the same function and both of you are introverted?

We may both be introverts, but we are nothing alike. If I had to guess her Enneagram type, I'd say she's most likely a phobic 6. She's extremely emotional and immature, and totally dependent on the people in her life. She also seems to be incapable of being objective about anything.

 

[1487610420]

I guess I can speak to this one but it is with the caveat that it was a long time ago and we were both young. My first girlfriend was an ISFP. We met freshman year in college. There was a guy I met the first week of school that I quickly became good friends with that lived next door to her. I liked her for at least a couple of months before he finally helped to introduce us at a dance. I asked her out to a movie and after that, we quickly became inseparable. We were together for about three years – first love, first everything and all that.

As to what attracted us to each other, I can only speak to what attracted me to her. She was pretty, with beautiful eyes and a great butt . She was very smart – ranked third in her high school. She was nice. I guess what I quickly realized is that she wanted to be around me and that was attractive as well. There was a kind of emotional chemistry that is hard to explain. We were very close and knew practically everything about each other. Though serious and often too conservative for my tastes, she was kind of silly and funny at times, which I loved. She liked to buy me cards – like the ones you get at the pharmacy and write cute funny things in there. I really liked those. She was a person who had a great depth of emotion with a deep capacity for love, and it is special to be in a relationship with someone like that.

As to the problems, it is difficult for me to say precisely what parts of this were related to incompatibility and which parts were my being too young and not ready for such an intense relationship. I recall thinking, “uh-oh” in the first few weeks because I’d fallen in love with the girl and just wasn’t ready for that. The things that I did not like were:

Indecision – She avoided making decisions even on trivial matters, which forced me to always have to decide everything, which I didn’t want to do. Though there were times, about stupid things, when she could be as stubborn as a mule.

Communication – I’m a pretty open and direct person. She could not articulate her feelings very well. You can't imagine how little she talked. I grew to be fairly expert at reading her facial expressions and body language but as an 18 – 20 year old INTJ, this is not something that came easily for me.

Mental Connection – Though we were both reasonably intelligent, we didn’t have an intellectual connection really. She wasn’t someone that wanted to have intellectually stimulating conversations, which I like to have. I would ask her what she thought about this or that and she just wouldn’t have an opinion. I think conflict in general was threatening or uncomfortable to her, which leads to the next point.

Upsets – As I was fairly blunt and clueless, having never had a girlfriend before, it seemed that I would often say things that hurt her feelings. There would be this cycle of my offending her, then us making up, which was nice but the drama was stressful for both of us. In general she was always worried about what other people thought, which I didn’t so much care about and that led to tension between us. From a type standpoint, I guess you could say there was a dynamic of my auxiliary Te interacting with her inferior Te and maybe my auxiliary immature Fi interacting with her dominant Fi. If I were to guess her enneagram type, it is probably of the 6 phobic variety, so you can imagine how two 6s would be like together.

In the end, she left school, we started seeing other people and she found another guy that she ended up marrying and is still married to. He is a construction worker. So that was that. I think she hoped to get married some day but ultimately gave up on me. I did connect with her a few years ago, which maybe I can speak to later, which ended being a bizarre and very strange thing.

 

[great_bay]

It is an interesting point. I recall Dario Nardi saying that when he did testing of brain patterns on INTJs and ISFPs, as they got older, it was hard to tell the difference between the two of them. They started looking alike.

That's interesting. Does the same thing apply to other types? Does INFP and ISTJ start to look alike as they get older?

 

[highlander]

That's interesting. Does the same thing apply to other types? Does INFP and ISTJ start to look alike as they get older?

The short answer is I'm not sure because he didn't specifically mention it that I recall, but it stands to reason that if Ni>Te>Fi>Se start to look the same as Fi>Se>Ni>Te, then Fi>Ne>Si>Te would grow to look like Si>Te>Fi>Ne

 

[highlander]

Ok well, I guess I'll explain that. The thing is that first girlfriend and I connected via email a few years ago and for some reason it caused me to go into an episode of depression for 8 - 10 months. I was literally staring at walls. It was something about reliving a past trauma, unresolved grief, etc. I have never experienced depression before so it threw me for a loop. It felt like getting hit by a truck. I disappeared from here for several months when it happened. I recall it was when Invisible Jim got banned. I missed that whole thing. No matter how hard I tried to understand and analyze my feelings, it was impossible to figure out. None of it made any logical sense. I guess emotions are truly not logical.

I think that sometimes people feel INTJs are hard asses and don't have feelings but you know I believe that we're actually quite vulnerable to getting hurt in the intimate relationship realm, sometimes with lasting effects, and that we may be especially vulnerable when we're young.

 

[spirilis]

I know of a pairing with these types and while they've been married a long time, I also vaguely recall some serious ... dark moments they had. The INTJ pressed on. Eventually with the right reframing of mind, reframing of priorities and perspective they made it through that dark time and ended up having kids together, now they're basically in a place where they've achieved one of their most significant dreams. Don't really know that much else to speak to the actual purpose of the thread though.

 

[spirilis]

I think that sometimes people feel INTJs are hard asses and don't have feelings but you know I believe that we're actually quite vulnerable to getting hurt in the intimate relationship realm, sometimes with lasting effects, and that we may be especially vulnerable when we're young.

I have seen INTJs deep in the throes of loneliness and deep in melancholy. It's all very real and raw, but you'd never know if you took them at face value.

I haven't looked around all these threads yet and didn't catch it, but what type are you with now?

 

[Ene]

Ok well, I guess I'll explain that. The thing is that first girlfriend and I connected via email a few years ago and for some reason it caused me to go into an episode of depression for 8 - 10 months. I was literally staring at walls. It was something about reliving a past trauma, unresolved grief, etc. I have never experienced depression before so it threw me for a loop. It felt like getting hit by a truck. I disappeared from here for several months when it happened. I recall it was when Invisible Jim got banned. I missed that whole thing. No matter how hard I tried to understand and analyze my feelings, it was impossible to figure out. None of it made any logical sense. I guess emotions are truly not logical.

I think that sometimes people feel INTJs are hard asses and don't have feelings but you know I believe that we're actually quite vulnerable to getting hurt in the intimate relationship realm, sometimes with lasting effects, and that we may be especially vulnerable when we're young.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I was particularly interested in this post as I have always had trouble understanding where the ISFPs I know are coming from. The not being able to enter an intellectually stimulating conversation would be more difficult to endure as time went by. Now, about the bolded part, I think that is true. In fact, I'm sure it's true. Same goes for ISTJs. I've seen both types be really hurt by people they trusted (betrayal) and I've seen old wounds be reopened by just a chance encounter.

 

[ceecee]

I have seen INTJs deep in the throes of loneliness and deep in melancholy. It's all very real and raw, but you'd never know if you took them at face value.

And you can't always verbalize it. And when you can it sounds like another language, to other people and even to my own ears.

 

[OrangeAppled]

That's interesting. Does the same thing apply to other types? Does INFP and ISTJ start to look alike as they get older?

They dont look alike in terms of personality....their cognitive patterns may start to look quite similar, at least on the surface. Remember that MBTI actually types the ego, or the predominant mentality/mindset, not brain functions. So the two may remain quite distinct as personality types even as maturity may lead them to use thought patterns associated with the other (probably for tasks which call for them, which is how Nardi was observing people, as opposed to a whole mindset which colors the personality).

 

[highlander]

I have seen INTJs deep in the throes of loneliness and deep in melancholy. It's all very real and raw, but you'd never know if you took them at face value.

I haven't looked around all these threads yet and didn't catch it, but what type are you with now?

ISFJ that I met a year after that old girlfriend and I broke up . We have a much better connection from a mental perspective in terms of being able to talk about stuff. There aren't many upsets and she has no problem making a decision. It's a very equal partnership.

 

[grey_beard]

We may both be introverts, but we are nothing alike. If I had to guess her Enneagram type, I'd say she's most likely a phobic 6. She's extremely emotional and immature, and totally dependent on the people in her life. She also seems to be incapable of being objective about anything.

Interesting ...(casts about for non-emotionally-laden word) description. {after rejecting 'allegation,' 'account,' 'allegation,' 'recollection,' 'observation'}

As an INTJ, I can make my own working definition of objective; but I'd be interested in hearing your definition as applied to her.
Hint: I think that differing definitions of 'objective' lead to conflicts between the INTJ and several other types.

 

[grey_beard]

They dont look alike in terms of personality....their cognitive patterns may start to look quite similar, at least on the surface. Remember that MBTI actually types the ego, or the predominant mentality/mindset, not brain functions. So the two may remain quite distinct as personality types even as maturity may lead them to use thought patterns associated with the other (probably for tasks which call for them, which is how Nardi was observing people, as opposed to a whole mindset which colors the personality).

Nice point about Nardi -- can you confirm, you are speaking of his studies where he wired up the heads of volunteers for EEGs and asked them to do various activities (the source of the famous INFP "Christmas tree" pattern and the INTJ "whole brain lights up in a single color indicative of expertise in an area")?

Second, for the purposes of the discussion, please differentiate between "brain functions" and "thought patterns" ? (Holds out plate like Oliver Twist "Sir, may I have more please?")
Yes, that question is non humorous. :hi:

 

[grey_beard]

Ok well, I guess I'll explain that. The thing is that first girlfriend and I connected via email a few years ago and for some reason it caused me to go into an episode of depression for 8 - 10 months. I was literally staring at walls. It was something about reliving a past trauma, unresolved grief, etc. I have never experienced depression before so it threw me for a loop. It felt like getting hit by a truck. I disappeared from here for several months when it happened. I recall it was when Invisible Jim got banned. I missed that whole thing. No matter how hard I tried to understand and analyze my feelings, it was impossible to figure out. None of it made any logical sense. I guess emotions are truly not logical.

I think that sometimes people feel INTJs are hard asses and don't have feelings but you know I believe that we're actually quite vulnerable to getting hurt in the intimate relationship realm, sometimes with lasting effects, and that we may be especially vulnerable when we're young.

True that. The young INTJ may be internally bathing in tertiary Fi without realizing anything more than that "they've just stepped off a cliff like Wile E. Coyote" -- and the breakup, or the relationship going sour, is that moment when they look down and see just how far away the cold, cruel ground is...and that ratiocination is no defense against either heartbreak or social consequences and feedback...