I'm getting old and constantly changing... INTJ or INTP

[paperoceans]

I scored INTP back in 2005, but I feel as though I have changed a lot in the past four years. I continue to score INTP on MBTI tests, but I am beginning to wonder: "does this fit my profile?". My list:

*I cannot think or sleep if my room is dirty. Everything must be neat, tidy, and in the correct spot. I rarely hang things on the wall because I think it "clutters" everything.

ex: my room

*My desktop is completely empty, again, because I hate clutter.
*I start my homework assignments a week or two before it's due. I revise, revise, and revise until it's "perfect". I'm usually done with my work several days before it's due date. Starting projects on its due date makes me feel uncomfortable.
*I'm a perfectionist
*I'm always at least 15-30 minutes early to my appointments, just in case.
*I write all my appointments onto a calender (even if it's hanging out with friends)
*Before when I scored INTP, I was unmedicated (bipolar) which may explain the P.
*When I have a certain goal I work towards it regardless of what's happening around me (this maybe unrelated)
*I only research to better understand things
*I like things to be simple and unproblematic. I'm happiest in a calm, happy, and stable environment. Sometimes change puts me into a panic attack. Change is OK, but only if it's gradual.
*Everything is about cause and effect
*I have countless systems that I must follow

That's all I have for now

 

[Oaky]

Many of your points points to J.

 

[poppy]

I'm a J and my desk is a ridiculously cluttered mess. I mean really, it's crazy. I've got my laptop on top of a pile of boards, papers...there's CD cases and used waterbottles, it's a wreck. Same with my closet (though I keep anything that wrinkles hanging). I often start my projects the night before they're due.

Anyway my point is that some stuff really doesn't mean anything. I'm actually very strongly expressed J.

 

[brainheart]

Funny, because how I deal with my bipolar is by not being anal about cleanliness. I used to be much more of an anal OCD sort of neat-freak (sporadically, to be sure) prior to medication. Now it's like... eh... it is what it is...

So I guess I can't imagine you being an INTP is what I'm saying. If the medication is working... otherwise are you maybe hypomanic at the moment?

Just throwing that out there... Or do you feel stable?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Most of it accurately describes me, and as far as I see, it doesn't have much to do with what being INTJ or INTP is really about.

However, I don't know how you mean it. A cognitive INTJ and a temperamental INTJ are defined by entirely different things, and I don't know which you are getting it. If the things you described have relevance, they sound more like they'd be relevant to temperament theory.

 

[paperoceans]

Funny, because how I deal with my bipolar is by not being anal about cleanliness. I used to be much more of an anal OCD sort of neat-freak (sporadically, to be sure) prior to medication. Now it's like... eh... it is what it is...

So I guess I can't imagine you being an INTP is what I'm saying. If the medication is working... otherwise are you maybe hypomanic at the moment?

Just throwing that out there... Or do you feel stable?

The first time in a very long time I feel stable. And this whole cleanliness is pretty new to me. I mean, there were times when I was probably "normal" (which typically last a week or two) and I would start reorganizing things, etc. but it never lasted long before I relapsed. I'm pretty sure that I'm stable; I think the racing thoughts was the cause of my absentmindedness and the reason why I was so disorganized. Nah, I'm on risperidone, no hypomania for me.

Basically, my personality is completely different and I'm not sure if I'm still an INTP. Even before medication I would score: INTJ, ENTP, ISTP, ISTJ depending on the day. It's really hard to type yourself when you're going through... you know~ mania made me an ENTP, that's for sure.

 

[Kra]

You're pointing more to INTJ from what you've listed. Of course, I'd try to decide based on function preference if I were you.

That aside, this change happened to me too. When I was about 18-20, I tested INTP and acted INTP for all intents and purposes. Over the years, my function order changed, and my dominant was the most obvious of said changes. Now at 24, I find myself pretty clearly INTJ. *shrug*

 

[VagrantFarce]

Cleanliness isn't neccessarilly an extraverted thinking attribute, it can easily be linked to introverted sensation, which INTPs have in the tertiary position.

I wrote a guide about the differences between INTPs and INTJs, Give it a read.

Just a couple of questions to ask yourself:

1. How easily do you make decisions, typically? Do you find it easier to make decisions when under stress, or harder? INTJs tend to find it very easy to make decisions, and when put under stress they tend to make decisions very quickly, albeit in a more infantile and dismissive fashion. INTPs are the opposite; they tend to freeze up when under a large amount of stress, which typically happens in situations they're not accustomed to. In these situations an INTP might resort to taking small baby-steps to deal with the problem, or just withdraw entierly in fear of tripping himself up. INTJs are far, far more self-confident, sometimes to the point of obliviousness (although they wouldn't argue that ).

1. When you communicate with others, do you find yourself being informative or directive? e.g. if you're in the passenger seat in a car and the traffic light turns green, would you tell the driver something like "it's green", or "go!". An INTP is more likely to be informative, and tell the driver "the light's green, man!". INTJs are more likely to be directive and just say "start driving, you dumb bastard!"

 

[BlackCat]

Do you have OCD or something? Because that doesn't really mean you're a J. I know an INTP, and she's OCD and everything has to be clean and organized for her.

 

[paperoceans]

1. How easily do you make decisions, typically? Do you find it easier to make decisions when under stress, or harder? INTJs tend to find it very easy to make decisions, and when put under stress they tend to make decisions very quickly, albeit in a more infantile and dismissive fashion. INTPs are the opposite; they tend to freeze up when under a large amount of stress, which typically happens in situations they're not accustomed to. In these situations an INTP might resort to taking small baby-steps to deal with the problem, or just withdraw entierly in fear of tripping himself up. INTJs are far, far more self-confident, sometimes to the point of obliviousness (although they wouldn't argue that ).

It depends on the situation. About 50/50

1. When you communicate with others, do you find yourself being informative or directive? e.g. if you're in the passenger seat in a car and the traffic light turns green, would you tell the driver something like "it's green", or "go!". An INTP is more likely to be informative, and tell the driver "the light's green, man!". INTJs are more likely to be directive and just say "start driving, you dumb bastard!"

I usually say "go".

Do you have OCD or something? Because that doesn't really mean you're a J. I know an INTP, and she's OCD and everything has to be clean and organized for her.

Nah, I don't have OCD. I just cannot focus when there is a lot going on around me. I suck at multitasking--I just need to do one thing at a time.

 

[VagrantFarce]

I suck at multitasking--I just need to do one thing at a time.

I think if anything points to Extraverted Thinking, it's this.

 

[paperoceans]

I think if anything points to Extraverted Thinking, it's this.

Yea, you're problem right. I read the character traits of an INTP and my mother agrees that I'm nothing like that; definitely an INTJ. So I've been mistyped for five years, my GOD.

 

[Tyrant]

Typing yourself by the four dichotomies is waste of time. "I'm really tidy - You sound J, that points to J, etc." The thing is many people here don't have the slightest clue what the functions mean.

If you want to know your true type, you must write a description of yourself without using such a poor method. Just talk about people or tasks, your interests and hobbies and your interpretation of such. Life priorities, how you think, how you are communication-wise, just write a good few paragraphs about yourself.

When you're in a group, what are you focused on (the atmosphere, emotional expression, exchange of ideas, productiveness, etc.?) What is your typical group behavior, and how'd you like groups to be and behave (small size, emotionally subdued, spontaneous, disorganized activities, etc.) Least favorite group behavior?

You may not even be NT.

I think if anything points to Extraverted Thinking, it's this.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Argus]

My dad is an INTJ and he is COMPLETELY disorganized. Thank god for my ESFJ mother...

J and P have nothing to do with orderliness.



How does one go from ENTP to INTJ? At the end of all this you might land at ISFJ... if you keep you current trajectory.

 

[Tyrant]

My dad is an INTJ and he is COMPLETELY disorganized. Thank god for my ESFJ mother...

J and P have nothing to do with orderliness.



How does one go from ENTP to INTJ? At the end of all this you might land at ISFJ... if you keep you current trajectory.

Yes, you can't be an ENFP on Tuesdays and then an ISTP on Thursdays.

 

[VagrantFarce]

No, it doesn't.

How so? My understanding of Extraverted Thinking is that it's all about following a plan or identifying agreed-upon procedures, so that goals can be achieved in a rational, measureable and predictable manner. This often results in performing a stated, linear sequence of tasks one step at a time.

 

[Tyrant]

How so?

It isn't type related, and has nothing to do with Te. The need to do one thing at a time =/= Te.

 

[VagrantFarce]

It isn't type related, and has nothing to do with Te. The need to do one thing at a time =/= Te.

How would you define Extraverted Thinking?

 

[poppy]

It's important to keep in mind that INTJs are not just organized INTPs.
---
On the subject of extroverted thinking: Te is more like "do whatever is efficient in order to achieve goals". If multitasking was the way to go, Te would dictate that the individual multitask. Many Te users will prefer to do things in a somewhat linear fashion, but VF, your description sounds more like Si+Te to me.


EDIT: Also, I'm just playing a wee bit of devil's advocate. It's totally possible that Paperoceans is INTJ, but I think it's important that we don't suggest so based on flawed conclusions.

 

[paperoceans]

If you want to know your true type, you must write a description of yourself without using such a poor method. Just talk about people or tasks, your interests and hobbies and your interpretation of such. Life priorities, how you think, how you are communication-wise, just write a good few paragraphs about yourself.

When you're in a group, what are you focused on (the atmosphere, emotional expression, exchange of ideas, productiveness, etc.?) What is your typical group behavior, and how'd you like groups to be and behave (small size, emotionally subdued, spontaneous, disorganized activities, etc.) Least favorite group behavior?

You may not even be NT.

People and tasks? I interact with everyone, I do not discriminate. Erm, what people usually think about me: know it all, stubborn, arrogant, funny, quirky, sarcastic, smiley, snobbish, aloof, unapproachable, etc. Tasks? I always write down everything in my agenda and then when I get home I add it to my calendar and set the alarm two hours early so that I'm not late. I hate people who are late. I typically do one thing at a time... Again. I set personal goals and deadlines so that I can complete personal projects. I feel lost if I do not have a deadline, it's too unknown and open.

Interests and hobbies... I play the ukulele and research different genres for fun... I research different religions for the ~thrill. I actually spend the majority of my time researching and reading... Which may sound boring for most people. I like facts and do not care for theories or for other points of view, kind of stubborn, but oh well. If something isn't factual I dismiss it. I really do not see what my hobbies has to do with my MBTI type.

Priorities... I have goals that I must accomplish. I write step-by-step guidelines for myself for fun or when I'm bored. I already planned my schedule for school for the next two years. I have a clear idea of how I want things to be and I refuse to allow things to get in the way of my plan. I have a plan and I will accomplish it I see things in black and white; something is either wrong or right and it's very hard to get me to change my mind on something, even if I'm wrong. I also hate change...

In a group... I'm focused on the conversation. What is being said and whether or not it's interesting. I have a hard time reading people's emotions and emotional people make me feel uncomfortable. I do not respond well to emotional arguments, etc. My brother once joked that I'm a robot and that I have "no emotions". But I do, I have two feelings... Happy and angry. I suck at conversing. I can never get my point across because I do not know how to turn it into... yea, like that. I'm bad at describing my thoughts and I'm even worse when it comes to ~talking about my feelings.

Typical group behavior... I don't know. I don't pay attention to these things. I'm just there! I prefer small quiet groups with one or two people... We tend to talk about nonsense. I remember an INTJ wrote a lengthy post about her having a conversation with an imaginary man at the docks, her conversation with John Smith is pretty much how I talk on a daily basis.

OK, I really hate talking about myself. I've said too much