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[Traditional Enneagram] How do you experience your type's center? (Anger, Shame, Fear?)

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
If you are an 8, 9, or 1, how do you experience anger and instinctual energy?
It's a guttural force that comes from my core and when used right, compels me to action.

Is it your most often felt emotion?
Yes.

Is it your strongest emotion?
Ooooh YES! I have easy access to pure rage, although I won't wield it as a negative force at the expense of others.

The hardest to deal with?
No. It took a lot of effort to get here though, I spent about 18 months with my anger right in front of my face, being aware of it, refusing to numb it and it was extremely uncomfortable. On the other side of that I LOVE my anger, it's my passion, drive, determination, boundaries and the single most powerful force that makes sure my needs are not ignored. It's what allows me to remain present and engaged in the moment and is antithetical to indolence.

Do you struggle more with it than others?
I don't consider it a point to struggle with now, I just have a stronger connection to it. By comparison my connection to anxiety and shame is minimal and when they do surface are generally connected to 1-2 specific situations/topics. I don't think they're overarching issues I need to resolve, just situational.

How often are you in that state?
I'm always angry.
FriendlyJovialAmericanmarten-size_restricted.gif

I don't consider anger (or any feeling) a negative emotion and therefore something to avoid, what you do with your emotions leads to positive or negative results. Anger can spark revolutions and social justice, or it can lead to destruction. It's all about how you wield it.

Does your experience match up with the above?
It did, I'd say that's the default as opposed to the rule. The work I've done with my anger means I don't think I could return to repressing it even if I tried.
 

OneTriz

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
41
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Currently typed as 7w6.
>If you are a 5, 6, or 7, how do you experience fear/anxiety?
Don't feel it on a conscious level, think it's felt as boredom instead.
>Is it your most often felt emotion?
Boredom probably is, it's always a struggle to distract myself from it.
>Is it your strongest emotion?
Unsure, my emotions are mostly on a cerebral level. I think so, maybe true anger is a close second. I am often false angry from boredom, expressing it as irritability.
>The hardest to deal with?
Oh god yes, definitely. The false anger has gotten me into so much damn trouble.
>Do you struggle more with it than others?
Definitely.
>How often are you in that state?
Almost always when I'm without the internet, sometimes even when using the internet.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,362
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I deal with both fear and something related to shame. For me anger happens if I see something vulnerable being harmed and I feel overwhelming motivation to make it stop. I don't often feel anger, but it tends to motivate me to action more than the others. I feel a lot of environmental fear, but I think it comes from experience. I react to fear through choice to avoid it mostly, unless it stands in the way of something important to me and then I press through it with a sort of deliberate tunnel vision.

The main issue for me would be the heart centered issue for E4s.
I haven't always defined it as 'shame', but I struggle with self-loathing which is different for me than other emotions because its source is less tangible. Feelings like fear and anger have a source I can point to, but what can happen to my sense of self has no apparent source. The way I look transforms a lot. From the time I was a teenager there were times I could look really monstrous to myself. My perception can vary a great deal, and it can feel really intangible. It's hard to describe but sometimes I look like pain. It can also feel like I'm trapped inside myself. There can be a "too ugly to be loved" feeling I have. Creative projects done well help ease that feeling. There is a way that feeling ugly helps explain why I shouldn't be seen or acknowledged. I've had a lot of neglect in my life, and there is a way feeling grotesque settles that feeling with an explanation, but then also hurts very deeply, so I create or try to correct it on my own terms. I oddly don't do it for others, and the neglect has mostly hurt when coming from a significant other. I'm not as bothered by strangers ignoring me. It has been ongoing throughout my life.

When I was 16 I was at the stag table for the senior banquet (which was the prom at this little strict religious school that didn't believe in dance). I sat there in my white and green satin dress, and looked at my name card and started feeling this horror, so I turned it over, and as I looked at my hand, it looked like worms almost. I felt absolute hideousness and was looking down. The person across from me said something like, "she's having trouble", and I got up and left and cried in the bathroom. I felt like I was going to lose my mind. I also remember as a teenager laying on my bed and thinking about some new shoes I bought and how cute those shoes were. I felt a little bit cute like the shoes and it made me feel happy. I'd also spend a lot of time in nature and would feel overwhelmed by its beauty and let myself melt into it and become part of it. I had a belief that if you could see deep, meaningful beauty, you could be it. So I have spent most of my free time throughout my life in nature trying to see that beauty and to be it. When I'm around people I often fall into that feeling of horror and isolation and like there isn't any way I could ever look that would be right.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2021
Messages
139
If you are a 5, 6, or 7, how do you experience fear/anxiety?
I'm either a 5 or a 7. I experience anxiety usually as a physical feeling and a mental one moreso than an emotional one. The physical side is generally butterfly in stomach, and the mental side is mostly a desire to avoid whatever causes the source of anxiety.

Is it your most often felt emotion?
It used to be, but now it's under control.

Is it your strongest emotion?
I won't say it's strongest, but it can be quite crippling in my ability to act.

The hardest to deal with?
Yes. Sometimes I don't even know that I'm anxious, I just feel it.

Do you struggle more with it than others?
Yes, I struggle with it chiefly as a problematic emotion.

How often are you in that state?
Anytime I have something that could cause stress and I actually care about the results.
 

Abcdenfp

Terpsichore
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,657
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7W8
If you are a 5, 6, or 7, how do you experience fear/anxiety?
As a 7 my fear and anxiety tend to be based around phobias, stress levels will make me more cognizant of a phobia that maybe i wasn't paying attention to, so I am claustrophobic but maybe can handle planes, elevators fine when not stressed but its always in the back ground. Anxiety for me is also physical, i bristle , get snippy because i am anxious not angry.

Is it your most often felt emotion?
Anger is my most often felt emotion

Is it your strongest emotion?
It varies, I often feel a flux of emotions that are layered.

The hardest to deal with?
Yes. if i feel i can not gain control of it. I don't like when its the leading force.

Do you struggle more with it than others?
Yes, which is why i think i dissociate , it removes me from it altogether.

How often are you in that state?
During stressful situations, so it varies, however depends on how long i am dissociative for.
 

Pessimistic Hippie

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2020
Messages
455
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
469
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
If you are a 2, 3, or 4, how do you experience shame?

It's really weird. It isn't often strong for me, and it's very fleeting when I do feel it.

I do the 4 thing of comparing myself to other people, which is when it's commonly said that we would experience shame. But I don't think I really allow myself to feel that.

If I see someone who seems to have something I don't, my internal reaction is always "Maybe I AM less than them, maybe I am missing things...but can I do anything about it? No. So let me focus on what I CAN do." I try to think back on what's important to me to remind myself what I'm good for, and then go from there. Usually the result is me finding something good about myself again over time. It's to be noted that I've been me so long that I probably just can't fathom the idea of me even trying to be like those I "envy."
 
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Indigo Rodent

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
241
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
1w9
If you are an 8, 9, or 1, how do you experience anger and instinctual energy?
Hot blood and a feeling in the gut, like I don't know, pressure, almost pain, or light pain.

Is it your most often felt emotion?
It depends on situation.

Is it your strongest emotion?
Yeah, probably.

The hardest to deal with?
Yeah, it's like somewhat overwhelming. Like not in sense of lashing out, but like stewing long time in it and not being able to stop. Sometimes even meditation doesn't stop it.

Do you struggle more with it than others?
Yeah.

How often are you in that state?
It depends on situation. How bad things are. Also, I usually cope by trying to disintegrate to 4 or integrate to 7 because it's sort of unsustainable.
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

typology-free life
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,540
I don't particularly type as anything...but the closest is 268 tritype (not in that order). Sx/Sp. I have no clear fit in any core type and my answers below will partially explain why.

If you are an 8, 9, or 1, how do you experience anger and instinctual energy?
Not 9 and definitely far from 1. Maybe 8w9 core.
"Anger" is the most relatable to me out of those...always, always has been. All my life. Asking how one experiences it is pretty vague, however. It's relative/situational. I definitely don't internalize or repress it, but it's not always appropriate or conducive to positive outcomes to externalize it, either. Usually it's best to remain as calm as possible, deal with the situation with a level head, and process your anger in healthier ways later. Anger often serves as one of several fuel sources for my passionate energy, which goes into my striving.

If you are a 2, 3, or 4, how do you experience shame?
I'm definitely not a heart core.
I also hardly ever experience any shame from anything. I'm practically (not literally) immune to it. Maybe it's because I grew up under a narcissistic family system's smear campaign / undeserved shaming and I learned to let 'public' views of me roll off my shoulders, not giving a fuck anymore, since I was constantly surrounded by it. Maybe it's because I simply don't give a damn about society's expectations of me and shame is a 'public' emotion. (Guilt is private, shame is public.) Maybe it's because I am a divergent thinker and I recognize the fact that not only is there rarely any actual sound reasoning to support shaming. Sometimes it's because shaming is merely being used as a manipulation tactic and I'm not going to comply.

Whatever the reasons are, I simply don't experience it often at all whatsoever. When I do it's not very influential over my actions; I expose what I'm ashamed of just as much as anything I'm not ashamed of (albeit not foolishly). I don't understand this concept of people hiding themselves away, acting like we're not all human and we don't all have things to be ashamed of. Please.

If you are a 5, 6, or 7, how do you experience fear/anxiety?
Like shame, I have very few fears. I experience shame less often than fear. When I do experience fear--or rather, when I should be experiencing fear according to what the typical human response would be--instead it's often just raw visceral anger in place of it. First example that popped into my mind: I was 14, somewhere mostly isolated, some dude tried to kidnap me, I stood up to him and was ready to beat his fucking ass if he made one more move (he was only talking to me at first). He ended up leaving instead. This is something that goes back to when I was a toddler. People don't intimidate me and size doesn't matter. You don't even need to be physically stronger if you outsmart people, or know how to fight, defend yourself, use a weapon, etc. Also, sometimes if I do feel fear (eg. dirt biking on a course with a lot of jumps or something) I confront it head on and I feel good about overcoming it. It's highly satisfying to conquer your fears. I refuse to be a victim of my own mind.

I used to get anxiety attacks / panic attacks and such, but I overcame those a while back. I rarely experience anxiety. If I do it's usually because I'm around unfamiliar people or in an unfamiliar country or something. I'm working on getting over that, too.

Is it your most often felt emotion?
IDK, I most often experience this sort of confident passion, actually. Other than that it's usually a state of contentment, happiness, and neutrality. I am not emotional in general...negative feelings aren't my norm. Out of all of the negative feelings there are though, yes, anger is probably the one I experience the most.

Is it your strongest emotion?
No

The hardest to deal with?
...Tbh, multiple types of lust is probably harder. I think it may be part of where my ambition/drive comes from. I'm shamelessly avaricious and persevering *shrugs*. I'm persevering/driven in general though, not ways that pertain to avarice only. Also the sexual kind of lust. It's not like I can't keep my legs closed, I've never been that way--but in a relationship I might say, "I don't feel satisfied with my current looks so I'm going to just not have sex with my partner until I have time to get into better shape." Lmao...okay, yeah, right. Suuuure. No, I'll lose self-restraint as soon as the opportunity arises. I lack temperance in general in many ways though, actually...so no wonder lust would feel like the most difficult one. Immoderation.

Do you struggle more with it than others?
Than other people? No, lol. God, no. I have high tolerance thresholds. Emotionally, most people are just weak imo...too many people can't handle such minor situations. I sometimes pride myself in being the most level-headed one in the room and the most capable of handling things (example: professional setting / 'difficult' customers). However, I may deliberately use my anger as a motivator sometimes--shaking someone up a bit to snap them out of something, or putting some asshole in their place, or getting them to back down/off, etc. I might also express it in neutral or positive ways if there's no reason not to, simply because it's healthier than bottling. Just because it outwardly manifests doesn't mean I'm struggling though. "Struggling" implies actually attempting to hold it back, but failing. Rather, I'm choosing not to hold back.

The exception to all of that is impatience / irritation / annoyance. I probably do struggle with that more than others. It's still anger I suppose, but a rather minor form.
 
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SD45T-2

Senior Jr.
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
3,907
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Forgot to mention something I wanted to mention... not experiencing anger seems like a foreign concept to me. Recently, in a chat on Discord, Coriolis pointed that she may find something deplorable, and will do something to change it, but doesn't necessarily feel anger. Anger just genuinely rises up in my gut at such times. It doesn't feel like something I can stop from happening. I can attempt to channel it one way or another, but I can't entirely keep it from arising.
;)

 

Infinite Metamorphosis

typology-free life
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,540
Forgot to mention something I wanted to mention... not experiencing anger seems like a foreign concept to me. Recently, in a chat on Discord, Coriolis pointed that she may find something deplorable, and will do something to change it, but doesn't necessarily feel anger. Anger just genuinely rises up in my gut at such times. It doesn't feel like something I can stop from happening. I can attempt to channel it one way or another, but I can't entirely keep it from arising.
Sounds like a mere contrast in neuroticism levels, no?

Personally, I think I have rather solid control over whether anger arises in me in 'issues' (for a lack of better words) that I have past experiences with. It is possible for one to reprogram one's mind in order to adaptively implement preventative measures against being angry when it's an inappropriate response to a particular trigger.
 

Doctor Anaximander

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
19,313
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
My anxiety tends to be focused on or related to a fear of a loss of autonomy and/or alone time.
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

typology-free life
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,540
Hmm...if I were to think outside of Enneagram (in addition to inside of it), I really seem more guarded against being victimized via someone manipulatively playing the victim role in order to recruit a network of people to side against me unfairly, unjustly. A certain rage/battle mode is aroused by false accusation, a victim mentality/role, unfairness/injustice, inaccuracy, and being misunderstood in negative ways (thus falsely accused, which I see as unjust/unfair). That also makes me dislike assumptions and jumping to conclusions because by assuming one often misunderstands.

I don't fear a lack of support like an phobic 6, nor being overly dependent upon it like a counterphobic 6. I'm much too confident/comfortable/trusting of my own self, autonomy, and mind for either of those. It's sort of an unspoken, automatic 'given' that I'm independent and autonomous--attention to it is largely unnecessary. I don't really pay attention to whether someone is 'authority' outside of how they might abuse their position and impact the life of myself or those I love. (In high school they used to call me 'Momma Bear.' I was always ready to stand up to anyone in someone else's defense.) I don't feel threatened by authority enough to pay attention to it, either. Any sense of threat to my instability (as they relate to authority) are more related to someone in a position of power abusing it and trying to use it against me manipulatively, being emotionally volatile, etc. in some way that poses a threat to my life situation: whether there is a roof over my head, whether I will have a job in a week, etc. I avoid these situations and seek out independence/self-reliance in order to have immunity to such manipulative, unempathetic, and unjust threats.

I have more of my own defense mechanism against this, not clearly 100% aligning with Enneagram's defense mechanisms against manipulation. I don't need to be in control over everyone, nor am I some control freak; I only seek control over what loved ones or myself are able to be vulnerable to...and only if I care enough about the risks entailed. So...if a situation could even evolve into something where someone in power misuses it, I tend to be extremely uncomfortable, untrusting, and feel threatened/vulnerable. I perceive it as a possibility that something may happen any day, I am vigilant for any signs that a threat is developing. I prepare for the possibility that I may face some sort of loss (of home, or job, or alliance, etc) unless I'm the one...in...control...

Crap, I didn't even mean to sound like an 8 in this. "I don't fit in Enneagram, instead I am *proceeds to contradict self by unintentionally describing 8-ness*" Nevermind, 8 fits.
 

Luminous

༻✧๖αη-∂яασι∂н✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
9,708
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Sounds like a mere contrast in neuroticism levels, no?

Personally, I think I have rather solid control over whether anger arises in me in 'issues' (for a lack of better words) that I have past experiences with. It is possible for one to reprogram one's mind in order to adaptively implement preventative measures against being angry when it's an inappropriate response to a particular trigger.
Yes well, I think my anger is an appropriate emotional response whenever I do feel it. By which, I don't mean that I should lash out violently, but that it's a clear sign that something is wrong, needs to change, or that boundaries have been crossed, etc.
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

typology-free life
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
4,540
Yes well, I think my anger is an appropriate emotional response whenever I do feel it. By which, I don't mean that I should lash out violently, but that it's a clear sign that something is wrong, needs to change, or that boundaries have been crossed, etc.
I didn't intend to imply that your anger was inappropriate. Just conversing.
 
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