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Famous Living NFs

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
46,784
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BELF
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594
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sx/sp
I'm not angry, I'm just really exasperated. This has been building for a while now. Months. Every time an interesting man is bandied about as a potential INFP other types are quick to snap him up because he's too structured or too dry or too dark or whatever...

I know, I noticed it before on INTPc (not with you in particular, just the sort of arguments or comments that were being made), so I'm sympathetic to that. It would be cool if we could hammer out some basic differences as expressed in their art, that could help differentiate.

If it helps for comparison, I think that Neil Gaiman is an INFP and Tim Burton is at least an INFx and possibly INFP. And they're some of the best well-known writers around. I would dare say that Burton is sort of "pseudo-dark" while Gaiman can be very dark.

Anyone have an idea on Clive Barker? or Dean Koontz? There are some possibilities there. And director David Lynch might be INFJ. he's also dark.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
46,784
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Why did it just cut off almost all of my post? My lengthy, cross-referenced, brilliantly coherent post? The remainder of which I just lost when my system mysteriously crashed seconds after replying?

*searches for appropriate smilie*
Dammit, there's no "slash your wrists" smilie.

I will endeavour to rewrite a doubtless half-assed, dispirited version of my rhetorical masterpiece.

Just as a general warning, it's good to save your long posts outside of the forum before posting (in Notepad or something); there have been some issues lately after admin went to install some new software.
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
Gaiman must be INFP and Burton could very well be as well. I've only read Imajica from Barker, and to me it felt very NFP (and a bit homoerotic). Neither of them are known as much for their humor as for their originality, though.

My impression of INFP humor is that it often seems at first impression like INTP-light. However, if you look at all the nonverbal communication and all the shades of Fi meaning embedded in choice of words, frasing, intonation etc, it's just as rich as the INTP humor and just as funny for those able to pick up on it, but like INTP humor, it meets "WTF??" from those who don't.

Also, just as an idea can be taken and played to the bitter logical end by an INTP, an INFP will often do the same but take it more towards the bitter emotional end, and in order not to feel restricted by fear of stepping on other people's feelings, they often make themselves the butt of their own jokes. Thus, an INFP comedian (and loads of INFP humor in general) will revolve around the storyteller's non-epic, anti-heroic battle against the windmill that in the end won by knocking him out.

That said, there's no reason why an INTP can't be excellent in INFP-ish humor and INFPs in INTPish humor, it's just that when the best of the best, the creme de la creme of each category are mentioned, chances are INTPs will dominate the typical Ti-Ne humor while INFPs will dominate the more personal, emotinally directed Fi-Ne humor.
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
How about the more personal, values-directed Fi-Ne humour? For example, I think Simpsons is often very value-oriented. It's funny because you know it's so wrong. It's so wrong because it knows what's right.

Ah, yes, sorry, I was thinking values, didn't find the word, and went with "emotion". (Sometimes it's extremely frustrating not to be a native english speaker, as nuances of words don't come naturally to me the way they do in norwegian, and nuances is what I normally deal in.:ng_mad: )

Yes, I believe series like Simpsons, Futurama, Friends, Arrested Development, Seinfeld and Curb your enthusiasm have come to life and been formed a lot through Ne and Fi.

Edit: It just takes a bit jaded INFPs to do it. I've met few people funnier than jaded INFPs and INFJs. :D
 
R

RDF

Guest
Since JJJ is taking the lead on this argument, I'll just say that I agree with him about Johnny Depp. Depp strikes me as an INFP.

Depp has always injected his roles with a whimsicality that INFPs like to play with (and that INTPs seem to dislike). There's a little whimsicality in his serious roles (facial tics and the like), and a lot of whimsicality in his not-so-serious roles (drunk, gay pirate in "Pirates of the Caribbean").

I checked out Depp's written tributes to Burton and Hunter Thompson in Economica's links, and they seemed like INFP writing to me. Depp's tributes try to capture the essence of the figure (Burton, Thompson) in isolation, without classifying or judging. They try to capture the essence, in part by injecting some hyperbole and painting the character a little larger than life. By contrast, I often find that INFJ literature tries to classify figures--often by portraying the subject without unnecessary hyperbole and by putting the subject in a context or a milieu for contrast or by contrasting the subject against another figures. (That's just my own subjective impression, though.)

I also watched the YouTube clips of Depp on the Letterman show, and I registered INFP reticence and hesitation mingled in Depp's casual manner.

Having said all that, I also want to note that I generally don't like to type public figures like politicians, actors, and even writers. Their public appearance/persona/role/product is their profession, and they tend to modify their appearance to suit their audience. As pros, they tend to copy and integrate traits from other types as needed. So ultimately any analyst can find just about whatever personality type they want to find in a given public figure.

As a result, I try to stay out of debates about the personality types of public figures. Even the personality type professionals disagree on the personality types of most public figures, so I don't see the value of amateurs spending a lot of time debating it.

But again, since JJJ is taking the lead on this argument, I will go ahead and put in my off-the-cuff amateur impression: I personally register Depp as an INFP.

But I myself don't want to spend time debating it. :D
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
Yeah, people don't seem to recognize jaded INFPs for what they are. Sometimes the most cynical people are the frustrated idealists. But when they learn to accept that life is hardly ideal (which starts with an examination of your own inabilities to live up to your values), they are often surprisingly unembittered about it all. Which I think Pratchett demonstrates admirably.

Hm... you do have some good points, and I realize there's absolutely no reason why Pratchett can't be INFP, but there's still something about him and his books (haven't read the 3 latest yet) that tells me he's using a framework of Ti-Ne and decorates with Fi, not the other way around. I don't know exactly what it is... I guess I'm just trusting my intuition on it, and it reports INTP with well developed F, not unembittered, fallen idealist, though I agree it would look remarkably similar. Hm... I'll have to keep this question in mind when I read the next three books. Might be I'll reconsider.

I think I might be coming around on Depp being INFP too. Some of those things you and FL posted could easily be INFJ as well, but some others seemed much more typical for INFPs. Hm.. I've got some pondering to do.

And I had no idea English wasn't your first language. Communicating in a non-native language would be pretty frustrating for an INFP.

Sucks! It's not as if I haven't learnt a lot of English in school or been exposed to it from TV since childhood, so I'm able to hear all the nuances etc, but except for a few occasions and forums like INTPc, I never get to use it, so things don't come as automatic, fast or precise as I'd like (and am used to in Norwegian). So yes, it sucks, but I believe that would be a great frustration for any INxx with English as a secondary language wanting to have advanced discussions on internet forums, not just INFPs.

It's a great way of learning, though, so I shouldn't really complain.
 
R

RDF

Guest
I think I might be coming around on Depp being INFP too. Some of those things you and FL posted could easily be INFJ as well, but some others seemed much more typical for INFPs. Hm.. I've got some pondering to do.

A possible convert! :party:
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
Slowly getting converted to the possibility of Pratchett being INFP too. I'm reading "A hat full of sky" now, and see what you mean, JJJ (and I think Fortunato said something about his humor being more value oriented than logic oriented.)

I still think there's a good dose of Ti in there, but I'm also starting to realize that a lot of what he does is things I didn't notice and took for granted, but on closer inspection realized is more Fi+Ne, and couldn't have been done by Ne+Ti alone.

I don't dare to claim that he HAS to be INFP, but neither will I any longer claim he's INTP.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
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Slowly getting converted to the possibility of Pratchett being INFP too. I'm reading "A hat full of sky" now, and see what you mean, JJJ (and I think Fortunato said something about his humor being more value oriented than logic oriented.)

The part I was thinking about specifically was one of the "witch" books he wrote, and I was recalling the pages from one of the witch's perspectives. It was just very personal, like the reader was immersed inside her skin, and I think it was limited third-person narrative. An INTP could write that way if other functions besides just TiNe were developed, but you're more apt to see that style approach done well from an INF.
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
The part I was thinking about specifically was one of the "witch" books he wrote, and I was recalling the pages from one of the witch's perspectives. It was just very personal, like the reader was immersed inside her skin, and I think it was limited third-person narrative. An INTP could write that way if other functions besides just TiNe were developed, but you're more apt to see that style approach done well from an INF.

Ah! Yes, I started realizing. He does that even more in his later books. It comes naturally to me, so I kinda took it for granted, but you're right, it's probably an INF thing.
 

Economica

Dhampyr
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,054
MBTI Type
INTJ
<arguments for Johnny Depp as INFP>

Since JJJ is taking the lead on this argument, I'll just say that I agree with him about Johnny Depp. Depp strikes me as an INFP.

Depp has always injected his roles with a whimsicality that INFPs like to play with (and that INTPs seem to dislike). There's a little whimsicality in his serious roles (facial tics and the like), and a lot of whimsicality in his not-so-serious roles (drunk, gay pirate in "Pirates of the Caribbean").

I guess I'm back to being in doubt about Depp's type. :doh: But thank you, FineLine and Carebear and especially JivinJeffJones, for your insightful exchange. I'd rather assemble a correct (and convincing) list than finish the project quickly, so I am truly grateful for your intervention.

I don't know why you see his writing style as so FJ. And what do you mean by "very tightly structured"? What is the nature of this structuredness to which you refer? They did not strike me that way at all. The articles I read centred around personal anecdotes, chronologically arranged, which strikes me as by far the preferred method of INFP communication. And would you consider INTPs unlikely to be able to produce similar levels of structure to those in the article? If not, then why could an INFP not manage likewise?

(...)

And which INFP writings are you referring to?

Of course, you're right, "structured writing" (as opposed to "rambling writing") is not the domain of Js. The INFP writings that I was referring to were internet posts, which I admit is a faulty standard for judging a type's writing potential. (At least I did correctly type Pratchett, whom it looks like I get to keep as an INFP. :))

I do find FineLine's "whimsicality" argument very convincing... I wonder if any (especially male) INFJs would care to comment on the arguments for Depp as INFP?

I'm seeing my INFJ friend and my INFP friend, both male, tonight ... I have a feeling I know what discussion they're in for. :devil:
 

Alesia

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
90
MBTI Type
INFP
I've always placed Johnny Depp as an ISFP. There is a quality difference between the more populous SP actors and performers and NF actors and performers. Here is a snipet from his writing below.

I arrived in New York City late, somewhere around 11.30 p.m., from Europe. With just enough jet lag to keep my peepers wide open for one too many hours - my brain crowded with the threat of Mr. Sun's arrival, knowing that soon he'd nudge me out of my snooze and into the world. I shut my eyes tight with the hope that he might be tardy.

Woke up the following morning - or rather, a couple of hours later - with a very prompt Mr. Sun stabbing through the black protection of my eyelids. The rotten bastard had found me.

I pitched and tossed and turned and spun - doing my best to avoid him - until I just couldn't take it anymore. I forced the heavy lids up and open and stared the eyeballs straight into the beastly light. I dunked my face into the pot of hot coffee and dove out the window and thus began the day. Things to do... Up. Awake. Onward. Forward.

I made my way downtown to St. Mark's Place to a bookstore of the low-down, the lowbrow, the bohemian, the subterranean-counterculture-drop-out types. My mission - to get my paws on some fine literature suitable for... well, you'll find out. First and foremost, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by the good doctor himself, Dr. Hunter S Thompson - a must for anyone and everyone... especially anyone in need of a serious excursion from their four walls. Second on the list, Tarantula by Bob Dylan - we need say nothing about him or his genius. Third, Kerouac - anything at all by ol'Jack... On The Road being the Bible. And why not throw in a little taste of Burroughs and Ginsberg while I'm at it.

Note that the writing is very Sensing. It is about what he is doing. How the sun affects his eyes. What he does next. SPs are the majority of actors, musicians, and novelists. They are supurb at painting a vivid picture of the sensation surrounding. Sight, taste, smells, etc. This is what Johnny Depp does. Read more of his writing than this, and you'll see that he writes most often in the present and uses sensing speech. Like "why not throw in a little taste..". And he paints vivid pictures of surroundings.

NFs on the other hand, greatly fill the Self Help book shelves. When they write, they write more abstractly and about meanings. Johnny Depp's writings are not what I would call abstract/meaning writings. They are very SP. I do love his acting and I really loved his writing.

But, the only offer I have at this time for contrast is Josh Groban. Take a look at this video of this new song. He wrote this. He chooses what he sings. And what he sings is abstract/meaning songs. He is a good example of an NF performer. And there aren't that many, frankly. One, due to the fewer NFs, and two, because most NFs really want meaning in their lives, and that doesn't really include just acting and performing.

There truly is a quality difference between SP writing and acting and NF writing and acting. It's the difference between painting an accurate picture through sensing words, and trying to convey meaning through abstract concepts. In acting, an SP actor can protray different (and, yes, unusual) characters as Johnny Depp does in "Pirates of the Carribean". And notice what types of movies he is attracted to. Unusual and unique characters. (and yes, he gets to choose now)

Notice what songs Josh Groban is attracted to. And yes he gets to choose. Songs like "To Where You Are". Very abstract and full of depth and meaning. "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" may be fun (i.e. SP) but it lacks the depth and meaning of a true NF.

Here is one the songs he sings "To Where You Are". He also sings "You are Loved", "The Prayer", "You Raise Me Up", and on... most all are of abstract and meaningful quality.

MySpace Videos: Josh Groban - To where you are by *SEAN*

Here is Josh Grobans song he wrote "February Song"

MySpace Videos: February Song :: Josh Groban by ¬Nyx
 

meshou

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
238
MBTI Type
INXP
Note that the writing is very Sensing. It is about what he is doing. How the sun affects his eyes. What he does next. SPs are the majority of actors, musicians, and novelists. They are supurb at painting a vivid picture of the sensation surrounding. Sight, taste, smells, etc. This is what Johnny Depp does. Read more of his writing than this, and you'll see that he writes most often in the present and uses sensing speech. Like "why not throw in a little taste..". And he paints vivid pictures of surroundings.
Disagree. The following is a journal entry by someone I am quite sure is an INTX (and at the very least, is most certainly not a sensor). Fairly similar style.
Why birds are frightening
Have you ever stayed up all night, only to be dismayed at the merry chirping outside of your window heralding the coming day? It happens to me more than I care to admit. Simply put, no decent, god-fearing creature should be up at 4AM. Particularly not merrily chirping. So clearly, birds don't fear god. The only practical reason not to fear somebody with as many deaths under their belt as god is because you feel confident that you could take him on. So we come to the astonishing conclusion that birds are more powerful than god. So what we have here is a creature more powerful than god, with a brain that maxes out at peanut size, with the disposition and the willingness to chirp maliciously at 4AM every day. And THAT is why birds are frightening.
Good writing has a root in the concrete. He's not an S just 'cause he's a good writer.
 
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