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[ESFJ] ESFJs what do you admire about Madonna & Donald Trump

raz

Let's make this showy!
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Trump is ESTP? lol. Those rich entrepreneurs like Trump are 90% of the time ENTJ.

But, yeah, I'd watch it with insulting members. I've done it twice and got infractions. As much as I don't like censoring myself, I value being able to go on this forum more, so it's worth holding back.
 

Totenkindly

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Trump is ESTP?

Yeah. ESTP.

I found his show interesting as a window unto that type of person.

...But Ivanka scares me more.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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I am gathering information that may be used for a subjective study of the Socionics Relations. According to this theory, ESFJs often "admire" ESTPs. Madonna & Donald Trump are mentioned because they are supposed good examples of the ESTP type as agreed upon by the public.

I think they are celebrities. I think Madonna needs to gain weight, and I think Donald Trump needs a new hair stylist. The End. :smile:
 

Afkan

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I think they are celebrities. I think Madonna needs to gain weight, and I think Donald Trump needs a new hair stylist. The End. :smile:

lol
mmk, if you will then, what abt ESTPs in general? Forget about celebrities.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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mmk, if you will then, what abt ESTPs in general? Forget about celebrities.

I <3 ESTPs. I tried to be one.... I failed horribly though... That spontaneity did not settle well with me though. It drove me crazy trying to force myself to be more spontaneous! :doh:
 

Afkan

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I <3 ESTPs. I tried to be one.... I failed horribly though... That spontaneity did not settle well with me though. It drove me crazy trying to force myself to be more spontaneous! :doh:

Lol... I really like this. Thank you for sharing. ::smile:
 

yeghor

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Old thread.

So if Trump was an ESTP as suggested in this thread, according to my political compass that would put him somewhere towards Libertarian Capitalism. (Libertarian Right).

I am getting xSTJ vibes from him (Biden). That would make him a Conservative Capitalist. (Authoritarian Right Wing)

A lot of his recent policies to provide free monetary support, infrastructure projects, increasing taxes etc OTOH sounds like Statism, which would make him ISFJ according to the chart below. (Authoritarian Left)

Do you see him as ISFJ?

So how is Joe Biden any better then Trump? And where do you think he (Biden) would fall on the political compass below in terms of his policies?


EDIT: Does that mean Trump's voters (QAnon people) were xSTP?

EDIT 2: I saw Biden typed as ESFP on some, sites. He seems to have a habit of touching/grabbing people he is talking to, like Obama etc.. He may be an extravert. ESFP would put him in libertarian left wing.


MBTI-Compass-Trump.jpg
 
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Totenkindly

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wtf? You can't uniformly assign MBTI types to political leanings.

Here's an example: In my time in Christian churches, I met people of every MBTI type persuasion. Maybe there are tendencies but you're still going to find all types involved in organizations regardless of what they are. And they all probably voted for Trump because the Evangelicals are all Republicans. People are complex. Situations are complex. Information flow is not uniform. Some subcultures are encapsulated. Different subcultures conflict that then contributes to voting choices.

Trump himself has deviated politically over the years. he used to vote Democratic. He went hard right in part because it got him a fervent following. It worked. What does he really believe? Nothing, really. Just whatever will get him the most attention and the most wealth. He's playing the game and milking the crowd. That's actually pretty ESTP.

My personality has not changed either over the years, but I was voting Republican until I was 30 or so. Why? Because I grew up with it and had been raised in a particular worldview that limited my information flow. Then I eventually switched party affiliations, although I would consider myself independent -- in this case, type impacts me only in that I don't care about the party, I just care about the platforms and what will broadly bring about the best change.

This is all just getting silly.

Personality contributes to how we use certain political methodologies, but doesn't necessarily define what political methodology we are part of.
 

yeghor

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wtf? You can't uniformly assign MBTI types to political leanings.

Here's an example: In my time in Christian churches, I met people of every MBTI type persuasion. Maybe there are tendencies but you're still going to find all types involved in organizations regardless of what they are. And they all probably voted for Trump because the Evangelicals are all Republicans. People are complex. Situations are complex. Information flow is not uniform. Some subcultures are encapsulated. Different subcultures conflict that then contributes to voting choices.

Trump himself has deviated politically over the years. he used to vote Democratic. He went hard right in part because it got him a fervent following. It worked. What does he really believe? Nothing, really. Just whatever will get him the most attention and the most wealth. He's playing the game and milking the crowd. That's actually pretty ESTP.

My personality has not changed either over the years, but I was voting Republican until I was 30 or so. Why? Because I grew up with it and had been raised in a particular worldview that limited my information flow. Then I eventually switched party affiliations, although I would consider myself independent -- in this case, type impacts me only in that I don't care about the party, I just care about the platforms and what will broadly bring about the best change.

This is all just getting silly.

Personality contributes to how we use certain political methodologies, but doesn't necessarily define what political methodology we are part of.

To me, ideas are not silly or stupid, they are either right or wrong or incomplete.

I think the chart currently works quite well. It indicates the political/government system that each type would be happiest or most comfortable to live in.

The parties they vote for are a different matter as you said. They vote for whoever they think will defend their interests the best, based on perception, propaganda and peer pressure. US elections system is pretty much binary, there aren't that many parties that get into the parliament so voters more or less get polarized between two major parties.



I wonder if certain personality types are more inclined towards Evangelical Christianity and if there's any correlation with Trump's type.

I am also curious about Biden's type, it seems I've forgotten to mention his name in my previous post (added now). Is he an ISTJ? He is typed as ESFP on some sites.

What part of the chart do his policies lie on the chart?
 

Totenkindly

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To me, ideas are not silly or stupid, they are either right or wrong or incomplete.

When you're wielding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
 

Tiger Owl

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Madonna had nice tits, trump improved the American economy and wasn't a senile pedophile. I am also not an ESFJ.
 

Stigmata

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Not an ESFJ. I admire Madonna's artistic risk taking, as well as her ability to reinvent herself amd spind to make her relevance span several different musical eras.

I admire Trump's ability to habitually lie so brazenly that it convinces otherwise sensibile people to become parroting, reactionary sheep who lack critical thinking. Most of what he says can be debunked by even the most basic level of independent research, but who has time for that when allowing yourself to get caught up in emotional rhetoric is so much more fun?
 

yeghor

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Not an ESFJ. I admire Madonna's artistic risk taking, as well as her ability to reinvent herself amd spind to make her relevance span several different musical eras.

I admire Trump's ability to habitually lie so brazenly that it convinces otherwise sensibile people to become parroting, reactionary sheep who lack critical thinking. Most of what he says can be debunked by even the most basic level of independent research, but who has time for that when allowing yourself to get caught up in emotional rhetoric is so much more fun?

He is a con-man. What I am wondering is what type of people are more susceptible to such cons. If he is an ESTP I think he is telling people what they want to hear, playing on their Se and Fe, to rile them up.

My president here is doing the same, he is telling his voter base how the "elites" (democrats in your case I guess) see them below themselves, have demoralized the society by moving away from religious principles and taken away their jobs, and the elites are the reason for their suffering and misfortune. He is playing into their psychological needs and complexes to win them over and also creating an enmity to distract them from his own failings or agenda.

You mentioned critical thinking. I think critical thinking is related to strength of Ni (introspection). People who have weak Ni are particularly susceptible to believing in what they hear if it strokes their egos or gets them off the hook of taking responsibility for their circumstances. Not sure if Si can function the same. They can also act impulsively if they have strong Se.

Evangelists who are said to be Trump supporters on the other hand, I would expect them to be SJs mostly, and I would not expect them to go against the law. I think they failed to see Trump for who he really is and supported him just because he would protect their lifestyle, even though he started making government instutions dysfunctional by making them less autonomous, which is not something Js would want, or maybe they turned a blind eye to it because they feared the radical left (socialists and marxists and anarchists) would dismantle their conservative lifestyle.



Below diagram shows characteristics of some 50 people arrested in riots. There is a prevalence of previous violent behaviour record and a few have military or law enforcement background, suggesting the violent ones may be Se-dom or Se-aux (who have low Ni), i.e. SPs.

Qualities of Q: New Research Outlines Traits of Qanon Followers Arrested Related to the Capitol Insurrection | by E. Rosalie | The Startup | Medium



 
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