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[Type 5] Enneagram 5w4 versus 5w6

Recluse

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Please provide details of the distinction between Enneagram 5w4 and 5w6.

I've encountered vague and even conflicting descriptions online and seek clarification.
 

The Ü™

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MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Enneagram 5w4 is generally associated with artistic interests like the 4, but where the 4w5's artistic interests are more romantic in nature, the 5w4 tends to be more surreal and science fiction oriented, so to speak. In short, the 5w4's artistic interests lack a "human" element. Like the 4, the 5w4 is also fantasy-oriented.

Enneagram 5w6 is the absent-minded professor or intellectual nerd stereotype. They're less interested in individuality like the 5w4, but more into the scientific method. 5w6 is generally linked to science and logical understanding of things. Hence, the 5w6 is more associated with academic pursuits. In addition, the 5w6 often has more interest in fitting into social groups due to 6 influence.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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sx/sp
Enneagram 5w4 is generally associated with artistic interests like the 4, but where the 4w5's artistic interests are more romantic in nature, the 5w4 tends to be more surreal and science fiction oriented, so to speak. In short, the 5w4's artistic interests lack a "human" element. Like the 4, the 5w4 is also fantasy-oriented.

Yes -- one can still touch on human themes, but it is more impersonal.

(For example, a move like "Alien" or Giger's work could have been conceived by a 5w4 -- while humanity is still involved, everything is all twisted and bent everything around in a way that really would unsettle a 4w5 because their sense of "humanity" and what it should be about is more anchored. 5w4 is very much able to handle the grotesque.)

Enneagram 5w6 is the absent-minded professor or intellectual nerd stereotype. They're less interested in individuality like the 5w4, but more into the scientific method. 5w6 is generally linked to science and logical understanding of things. Hence, the 5w6 is more associated with academic pursuits. In addition, the 5w6 often has more interest in fitting into social groups due to 6 influence.

That definition is good. (Have you been reading Riso again? :) )
 

Urchin

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Enneagram
5w6
Enneagram 5w6 is the absent-minded professor or intellectual nerd stereotype. They're less interested in individuality like the 5w4, but more into the scientific method. 5w6 is generally linked to science and logical understanding of things. Hence, the 5w6 is more associated with academic pursuits. In addition, the 5w6 often has more interest in fitting into social groups due to 6 influence.

I was with you until the last statement. I think that may apply more to 6w5s than 5w6s, but I'm basing this only on myself and one other person, so I could be off.
 

The Ü™

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5w6
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sp/sx
5w6 tends to be the kind that joins book clubs and so forth, where they can relate to others who share their interests. The 6w5 tries to be interested in whatever their chosen group is interested in.

As the middleman of the Thinking triad, E6 is the least in touch with their own thoughts, leading them to latch onto others, especially when phobic. The 5w6 actively pursues its own interests, often in the hopes of finding others who share them. So in that way, they're more social than the 5w4. The 5w4, by contrast, is more stubbornly individualistic, hence their nickname, The Iconoclast.
 

raincrow007

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Enneagram 5w4 is generally associated with artistic interests like the 4, but where the 4w5's artistic interests are more romantic in nature, the 5w4 tends to be more surreal and science fiction oriented, so to speak. In short, the 5w4's artistic interests lack a "human" element. Like the 4, the 5w4 is also fantasy-oriented.

Bah -- I don't like sci-fi. I'm also not a surrealist. :tongue10:
 

Urchin

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5w6
Hmm, after reading this thread and investigating further, I'm not sure whether my identification of myself as a 5w6 is totally accurate. I'm more like a 5w4 in some ways, but not in others. I am artistic, I'm an idealist, I'm very abstract. I have very underdeveloped emotions, though. As far as individuality goes, I don't want to go either way. I'm neither a leader nor a follower. I like to remain unattached to labels, and really don't want other people weighing me down as followers.

Also, my self-preservation variant may not be accurate as well. I'm not materialistic at all, I'm just withdrawn most of the time. I seek intense experiences and lofty ideas, which makes me think I may be of the sexual variant. Input, anyone?
 

The Unknown Essence

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5w4
I think the main difference is that a 5w4 is more introverted than a 5w6(even though they're both 5s) because of the individualistic and artistic 4 wing.

I'm a 5w4 Self Preservationist
 

Totenkindly

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Also, my self-preservation variant may not be accurate as well. I'm not materialistic at all, I'm just withdrawn most of the time. I seek intense experiences and lofty ideas, which makes me think I may be of the sexual variant. Input, anyone?

Intensity is part of the sx variant, but in general it is very much focused on intimacy and secret-gathering in individual relationships.

I have a strong sp streak (mostly built up from childhood), but my sx is much more instinctive. I feel most alive when I am alone with another person (in person, in e-mail/writing, you get the idea) and we are basically baring our souls to each other.

I do not bare my soul to just anyone (to me, that is promiscuous), but I will test the waters and go as deep as the other person is willing to go. I have no boundaries in that regard. It's like dropping like a stone into the ocean and going deep, deep, deeper still, and going into the comforting black and never stopping or wanting to stop... I only stop when the other person stops, because I do not want to violate them, or when I sense they will not treasure or value the parts of me I am sharing with them.

Anyhoo, it is that unquenchable thirst for intimacy and depth and just totally knowing and understanding and "joining" with someone else that drives me like little else does.

So it is not detached, like you are describing it. The variants are very much describing how we interact with others (Do we wall ourselves in and conserve our resources? Or do we look for broad and useful affiliations with others and groups of others? Or do we just want to go straight to the core of another person and reveal ourselves as well?)
 

Urchin

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5w6
So it is not detached, like you are describing it. The variants are very much describing how we interact with others (Do we wall ourselves in and conserve our resources? Or do we look for broad and useful affiliations with others and groups of others? Or do we just want to go straight to the core of another person and reveal ourselves as well?)

Now I'm sure I'm primarily a sexual variant. S-P comes out because I don't trust easily, but when someone interests me, I drill into them for understanding. I don't have a lot of relationships, but the ones I do have are very close.

I think the main difference is that a 5w4 is more introverted than a 5w6(even though they're both 5s) because of the individualistic and artistic 4 wing.

See, I don't see that all the aspects of 4 wings you described must all line up. I'm introverted and artistic, but I'm not deliberately individualistic. I don't think about fitting in or not fitting in. /me shrugs. I also get the feeling that 4 wings are more emotional? Risking getting a lot of criticism, I'll say that I don't think one needs to be emotional to be artistic, or that all arts require a sensitive person.

Anyway, who knows. I'll do more research.
 

Recluse

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Is this a valid statement?: An INTP who is 5w4 has preferences that lean more toward INFP while an INTP who is 5w6 has preferences that lean more toward ESTJ.
 

mippus

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5w6
Is this a valid statement?: An INTP who is 5w4 has preferences that lean more toward INFP while an INTP who is 5w6 has preferences that lean more toward ESTJ.

I don't see that...
 

Totenkindly

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I don't see that...

I see that the 5w4 overlaps some with introverted NFx concerns and the 5w6 tends to have a more social component in the sense of investing more into a community/network of similarly intellectually minded peers like an ISTJ might.
 

mippus

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5w6
I see that the 5w4 overlaps some with introverted NFx concerns and the 5w6 tends to have a more social component in the sense of investing more into a community/network of similarly intellectually minded peers like an ISTJ might.

That, I do understand, it is the switch from IN to ES that was puzzling to me. Apart from that, I don't think it is wise to see the enneagram as MBTI in disguise...
 

Totenkindly

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That, I do understand, it is the switch from IN to ES that was puzzling to me. Apart from that, I don't think it is wise to see the enneagram as MBTI in disguise...

Yes, they're really different systems and there's no consistent correlation across the board.
 

Eric B

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OK, finally tried my first Enneagram test (the Free version of the RHETI.

Did the same thing I had done on the cognitive processes test, and forced a choice on questions did not apply, then noticed it said you didn;t have to answer all questions as they didn't all apply. So the first results are all 36 questions, and the second ones are with skipping 8 of the questions that did not really apply.

Type 1 Type 2 Type 3 Type 4 Type 5 Type 6 Type 7 Type 8 Type 9
--5-------1-------3-----6------8------6-------1-------2------4
--3-------1-------2-----3------6------6-------0-------3------4

So strong on 5 in either case, but on the more accurate one, it's a tie between 5 and 6. This I sort of figured. But it doesn't tell you which is the wing. (or, the instinctual variants for that matter). I guess you would have to take the full test (which it then suggests).
 

Entropic

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8w9
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Yes -- one can still touch on human themes, but it is more impersonal.

(For example, a move like "Alien" or Giger's work could have been conceived by a 5w4 -- while humanity is still involved, everything is all twisted and bent everything around in a way that really would unsettle a 4w5 because their sense of "humanity" and what it should be about is more anchored. 5w4 is very much able to handle the grotesque.)

I'm sorry for the necro(6 years go me!), but how would you describe 4w5 then? What's the difference? Can you provide some kind of example of 4w5 art? Although I can see what you are saying. I'm just curious how you'd delineate the two.
 
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