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[SP] Dating and having intimate relationships as an attractive ISTP (or ESTP) woman?

JenniferCheck

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Deleted my original post due to mod post above (which was below my post)

Ill just say

Im also an "attractive ISTP female" but dont have this problem

Good luck :bye:
Congratulations.
 

JenniferCheck

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@JenniferCheck as an INTJ that was fairly shy I do understand the feeling of being the odd duck out in my teens and through my entire 20s actually (btw, I have two computer science degrees). When I first got into a significant leadership position at work, I had some growing pains and got an executive coach. Part of the process was to get 360 degree feedback. The coach told me that one persons feedback stood out - my ENFP executive assistant. She said I needed to let other people know me in the way she did. It stuck with me. I think part of this is being comfortable in your own skin and accepting - being proud of who you are and how you are different. What I found is as I became more accepting of myself and more relaxed around other people, it was like a whole new world opened up to me where I enjoyed interacting with people every day. I wasn't so hung up about being different or worrying about looking stupid. The shyness mostly abated. I just became more comfortable being who I was and relaxed more around other people so they could understand who I was.

I think you should let more people know you and really see you like the two friends you mention.
That's some really good advice. Thank you.
 

JenniferCheck

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OP - I didn't find any of your comments off putting at all either, for the record.

I'm sure people just meant to not let mbti be used as a crutch for life problems, but I don't see why that means that people can't voice their frustrations here and/or seek advice or analyze whether certain problems could be more related to type (not caused by type but just more type related).

Of course everyone deals with different problems regarding relationships. I don't see why people would take this as you saying Feeling type women have it easy. It's just your specific problem is what you think could be more type related.

It's hard to control other people perceptions of you. I can fall into a trap of being overly concerned of others images & opinions of me. It bugs me too that I feel my looks don't match my personality. I didn't see what you said as bragging. Just that your image of yourself doesn't align with most people's image of you open first meeting you or seeing you from afar.

You can't control other people though unfortunately. You can control your actions. Maybe try to cultivate a plan different from what your doing at the moment, & see if something pans out? & Be open, honest, & direct with people when you get to know them. Don't be too closed off about yourself or try to change your self to be more like the image you think they falsely have of you. Lay out who you really are. Suggest activities that you like to do to them. That's what I would suggest.

Thank you for sharing your experience and being understanding. And yeah, i guess trying to be more open while also being myself unapologetically might be the best idea.
 

Totenkindly

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You can't control other people though unfortunately. You can control your actions. Maybe try to cultivate a plan different from what your doing at the moment, & see if something pans out? & Be open, honest, & direct with people when you get to know them. Don't be too closed off about yourself or try to change your self to be more like the image you think they falsely have of you. Lay out who you really are. Suggest activities that you like to do to them. That's what I would suggest.

yeah I think that is some good extroverted advice. I know I put up a "false face" (socially palatable one) for the first half of my life, to try to find acceptance in lieu of being a more detached person who struggled with socializing, and all it got me was people who fell for that false image and I had nothing to show for it, especially when I started to let them see more of the natural me who they weren't as interested in. THe other aspect of the "false face" is simply to avoid conflict / save yourself some grief, but then it's still the same thing, you're not casting yourself out there in the open water to draw in the people who might actually be interested in that. It is a common introvert trap to fall into, to not put enough out there of the real self to draw in the people you might actually want to engage.

It's easy to also make it too hard. THis might sound trivial, but this week I was just thinking about time I spent on OKCupid some years back and how I made myself way too broad -- like, when describing my musical tastes, it's like "Well, I enjoy everything." And that's not wrong, I listen to a variety of styles, but if I'm honest, there's a few particular genres of music or books or films or whatever that REALLY resonate with me. And if I just have to answer from my gut without thinking, I can name them. I also can just look at "what I actually do" versus "what I am open to" to see where my true interests actually lie. It's okay to make your personal "specificities" in interest more overt.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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[MENTION=41027]JenniferCheck[/MENTION]
Just as a somewhat random, off to the side, addition to this discussion, I mentioned before how different environments can be so contrasted. I just remember one environment that I thought consisted almost entirely of STPs - it's the antarctic substation community. They are very much a pack of lone wolves. They all have interesting back stories, tough minded, adventurous, introverted mostly. I know it's extremely remote and it might be a humorous sort of tidbit of knowledge.

Other environments are going to have more of a mix. I'd expect quite a few STPs in racing, firefighting, medical field, etc. I was married to two different INTPs and I think both are happier with other Ts. The first is with a T now and their relationship works well. I'm trying to remember a couple of famous STP women who were highly successful with men. I can't bring the name to mind, but will return to the thread if I can.

I've wondered if Amelia Earhart was an ISTP.

I actually think that opposites in relationships are often a problem and that similarities make it easier.

 

highlander

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I do think very attractive people have challenges that other people don't and I'm not sure that has been fully addressed here. One of the things they talk about is people of the same gender putting them down because of their own insecurities, fears or because they feel threatened. I guess maybe we've even seen that in this thread.
 

JenniferCheck

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I agree that T women are stereo-typically more contained which can make them come across as masculine (sometimes) but no matter what you wanted to point out your post comes across as trying to be cool within the personality system (which isnt really cool) and thus those are the responses you get.

I ve seen plenty of T women who can turn those differences into a strength socially and charm others (say being contained and less open to vulnerability usually results in forming other strengths to fit in socially like humor for example). Still the way i see it you are mostly complaining about your appearance contradicting your vibes since all this issue about others misjudging you or having expectations you cant meet are all what shallow connections and interactions give you. Like others said above, be yourself and that wall will instantly crumble, people will know what to expect and you wont have this problem anymore.

If validation isnt what you are looking for then congrats, you got a set of personality traits that may differ from the most shallow of shallow social expectations. Also if we generalize in the same manner , men first and foremost care about appearance to give you the ok so you shouldnt have any problems whatever your personality is like atleast initially correct? Because they still are going to approach you if you are attractive. While they do that you have enough time to figure a way to open up to them and charm them with your different set of skills as a T woman.

You do realize this comes off as a horrible special snowflake case built on a barely credible enough personality system dont you? There are way more troublesome traits to have than being an attractive T female in 2020. This is why your post gets so much opposition.
"There are way more troublesome traits to have than being an attractive T female in 2020. This is why your post gets so much opposition."
I really don't want to be rude but that's one of the most nonsensical and unnecessary things that has been said in this thread and that's saying a lot given the fact that tons of users tried misinterpreting my post incorrectly and putting words into my mouth.

I do realize that there are way more troublesome traits that one could possibly have. I know that this is a first world problem. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still a problem. For the 9234829874th time - this forum was specifically created so that different people can discuss facets of their personality and the potential correlation between said personality traits and Jung's typology and the MBTI (or Socionics, enneagram and et cetera).

Yes, i do realize that there are many T women that use their traits to their advantage and that many of them can be very socially charming in their own way. That's exactly what my ENTP female friend is like. But yes, just like you noted - many people expect me to be a completely different person because there's a "contradiction" between the way that i look like and my personality, so to speak. When people (specifically men) approach me and treat me like a bimbo/idiot i am reacting to their idiotic behavior by quote-in-quote being myself and the wall indeed crumbles and they usually thankfully end up leaving me alone. But the point is that i ALWAYS end up attracting people that expect me to behave differently from what i'm like as a person. I almost never get to know people that might suitable for me personality-wise. Just like i said in the original post, the more nerdy slash intellectual guys that i'd be compatible with absolutely never end up getting to know me or communicate with me because they write me off as vain and dumb the minute they lay eyes on me. And all of this is really frustrating.

And no, i am not looking for validation. If that was the case I'd be fine with playing pretend. And i really am not which is where most of my main issues as far as socializing goes come from. Men do indeed approach me, but just like i already said - they approach me because they like their idealized idea of who i am as a person that they've created in their minds based on my looks and not who i am. So when they end up interacting with me they quickly find out how wrong they were about me and they're immediately thrown off. My goal isn't "charming" men. If i were to start dating and so on i'd indeed put an effort into the potential relationship but i wouldn't be exactly willing to method act 24/7 and reconstruct my whole personality. Which is what the men that approach me usually want. Or else i'm ruining their fantasies and they don't want to interact with me anymore. Which is something that i'm fine with because i wouldn't like the company of people that have this type of mindset. But the point that i'm trying to make is that all of this makes dating and socializing even harder for me than it already is as a typical Fe inferior type.

I don't see how my post resembled the post of someone with a special snowflake syndrome or anything like that. I am simply sharing my personal experiences and frustrations and many people are being triggered for unexplainable reasons. God forbid someone decides to not go out of their way to appear as self-deprecating and modest as possible (since that seems to be the trend these days, or else you're "arrogant"/"off-putting") so that strangers in an online forum won't feel threatened afterwards. I really don't really feel like participating in the mental acrobatics, if you think that my post is shallow/that I'm being shallow or anything like that then you can easily exit this thread. It's not like I'm holding a gun up to your head and making you reply.
 

highlander

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I almost never get to know people that might suitable for me personality-wise. Just like i said in the original post, the more nerdy slash intellectual guys that i'd be compatible with absolutely never end up getting to know me or communicate with me because they write me off as vain and dumb the minute they lay eyes on me. And all of this is really frustrating.

If I were to speculate, its more likely they think they wouldn't have a chance vs. thinking you are vain or dumb.
 

JenniferCheck

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If I were to speculate, its more likely they think they wouldn't have a chance vs. thinking you are vain or dumb.
I'm sure that happens too. But in high school for example, wherever i'd walk around the "nerdy" male groups i'd hear them whispering behind me and talking about how arrogant/vain/stupid i am. To be fair, they could've been intimidated so it could simply be a stupid defense mechanism but many of them genuinely thought i was an idiot although i was probably getting better grades than they did.
 

JenniferCheck

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People that don't know me well seem to expect me to be very innocent, quiet, passive/a push over, & overly nice. My personality couldn't be further from that! Lmfao but I look really young for my age. I'm 25 but been told I look 15-19. I've been emotionally distant with the only few people that have tried to date me. I try to come on to guys I find interesting sometimes, but that seems to scare them away so I've stopped initiating conversation in that way. Every once in awhile I just fall into a fwbs relationship with a guy friend that I'm already friends with & find attractive. I've never been in a relationship. It seems most people opt for online dating now, which I'm not interested in trying at all.

Sorry I can't offer better advice, but for what it's worth I understand what you were saying. I think other people are just also trying to say don't use mbti as a way to be down on yourself & have a negative self fulfilling prophecy.

I definitely think most people read others wrong all the time. Also, contrary to what a lot of people often say, no nerdy or less attractive or whatever else guys aren't any "nicer" or "less judgmental" than good looking jock guys.

My roommate from college always suggests to me that I get involved in things I'm interested in. That way you know that other people there are also interested in the same thing. So whether it's sports, comics, cooking, art, animals, charity work, etc. at least you know you already have something in common with someone you'd meet there. Could also help you & them as not just seeing each other as a one dimensional stereotype.
It's okay. It seems that us xSTP women overall have issues with dating and emotional vulnerability and it's somewhat comforting to know that i'm not alone in this.
At least you've been friends with benefits with some guys, i guess. I haven't even been in that position because of how irritating i find intimacy and connecting to people to be. And yes, online dating sucks for the most part unless all you're looking for is a potential hookup.

And interestingly enough more "smart/intellectual" nerdy guys are the ones that seem to put me in a stupid stereotypical box the most which is quite ironic so i get what you're saying. There's an ESTP guy that i interacted with for a while a couple of years ago and while he literally embodied the "spoiled, handsome highschool jock" ESTP male stereotype he was the most open minded guy i'd ever met when it came to getting to know me, aside from my ENFP male friend. Too bad that he was insanely immature aside from that.
 

highlander

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I'm sure that happens too. But in high school for example, wherever i'd walk around the "nerdy" male groups i'd hear them whispering behind me and talking about how arrogant/vain/stupid i am. To be fair, they could've been intimidated so it could simply be a stupid defense mechanism but many of them genuinely thought i was an idiot although i was probably getting better grades than they did.
People are morons in high school. I know I was.
 

chickpea

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please post a photo of yourself so i can give you well-informed advice. thank you! :hardatwork:
 

J. Starke

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You caught me! Lol but seriously "crazy" in what way? I'm curious.

Like if you step on their toes somehow, whether it was justified or not, they will do some bad shit to you like key your car or try to destroy your reputation and attack your masculinity.
 

SirCanSir

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"There are way more troublesome traits to have than being an attractive T female in 2020. This is why your post gets so much opposition."
I really don't want to be rude but that's one of the most nonsensical and unnecessary things that has been said in this thread and that's saying a lot given the fact that tons of users tried misinterpreting my post incorrectly and putting words into my mouth.

I do realize that there are way more troublesome traits that one could possibly have. I know that this is a first world problem. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still a problem. For the 9234829874th time - this forum was specifically created so that different people can discuss facets of their personality and the potential correlation between said personality traits and Jung's typology and the MBTI (or Socionics, enneagram and et cetera).

Yes, i do realize that there are many T women that use their traits to their advantage and that many of them can be very socially charming in their own way. That's exactly what my ENTP female friend is like. But yes, just like you noted - many people expect me to be a completely different person because there's a "contradiction" between the way that i look like and my personality, so to speak. When people (specifically men) approach me and treat me like a bimbo/idiot i am reacting to their idiotic behavior by quote-in-quote being myself and the wall indeed crumbles and they usually thankfully end up leaving me alone. But the point is that i ALWAYS end up attracting people that expect me to behave differently from what i'm like as a person. I almost never get to know people that might suitable for me personality-wise. Just like i said in the original post, the more nerdy slash intellectual guys that i'd be compatible with absolutely never end up getting to know me or communicate with me because they write me off as vain and dumb the minute they lay eyes on me. And all of this is really frustrating.

And no, i am not looking for validation. If that was the case I'd be fine with playing pretend. And i really am not which is where most of my main issues as far as socializing goes come from. Men do indeed approach me, but just like i already said - they approach me because they like their idealized idea of who i am as a person that they've created in their minds based on my looks and not who i am. So when they end up interacting with me they quickly find out how wrong they were about me and they're immediately thrown off. My goal isn't "charming" men. If i were to start dating and so on i'd indeed put an effort into the potential relationship but i wouldn't be exactly willing to method act 24/7 and reconstruct my whole personality. Which is what the men that approach me usually want. Or else i'm ruining their fantasies and they don't want to interact with me anymore. Which is something that i'm fine with because i wouldn't like the company of people that have this type of mindset. But the point that i'm trying to make is that all of this makes dating and socializing even harder for me than it already is as a typical Fe inferior type.

I don't see how my post resembled the post of someone with a special snowflake syndrome or anything like that. I am simply sharing my personal experiences and frustrations and many people are being triggered for unexplainable reasons. God forbid someone decides to not go out of their way to appear as self-deprecating and modest as possible (since that seems to be the trend these days, or else you're "arrogant"/"off-putting") so that strangers in an online forum won't feel threatened afterwards. I really don't really feel like participating in the mental acrobatics, if you think that my post is shallow/that I'm being shallow or anything like that then you can easily exit this thread. It's not like I'm holding a gun up to your head and making you reply.

i merely talked about how your post comes off and why people see you that way here, its the first impression thing, i dont really know you to know if you are telling the truth or not. But online especially and when talking to people who have no context about what your usual self is like + 0 facial expressions to be made to give a more accurate image, if you are not going out of your way to connect then people will easily judge you however they see fit. Of course if you dont care about that then it doesnt really matter. But the fact that you are dealing with so many people pointing ur behavior means that your message comes across in many ways you didnt have intention to.

I also dislike that the trend as you said is to be humble but the fact is that the less info someone has about you the less they can trust you if you are coming off as arrogant.

In any case The post is about men who cant appreciate your "T traits". If you have friends who manage to show their quirks like that then what is stopping you from developing your own quirks in a way that will let others know who you are the moment they approach you so they wont have time to develop expectations you cant fulfill?
I think that having your kind of problem only suggests that you dont pass the message you want quickly enough or as well as you need. If you are a woman who struggles to be soft or playful (in a more cute or as you call it dumb way) then use your own personality to develop something that stands out just as much as those traits would. You must have a quirk you can use for that.

I doubt men in general just want a pretty girl that acts dumb to be cute. There are plenty of ways to be cute after all. If people have initially those expectations from you then the image you show (and not just your looks) point at that. Try to analyze your first interactions with someone who approaches you and think of what can lead to creating that image. Maybe you are giggling too much? Maybe you are too agreeable at first? Think about it, find it and replace it with something that indicates your personality more accurately.
 

John Catstentine

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Hey. I know that there are other threads about ISTP women but the ones i found were really old and none of them seemed to be mainly focused on dating as an ISTP or an ESTP woman. They were way too general ("What are ISTP women like?" and et cetera). So i decided to create one.

I am still quite young (23 years old) but dating seems so... unnatural for my personality. And i kind of feel like I've wasted my teenage and young adult years in a sense because i missed my chance to explore how relationships/intimacy work when i had less responsibility and much more free time back in high school and at the beginning of university. I've almost completed my computer science degree and am probably going to be employed soon so it'd be even harder for me to meet potential partners since I'd be spending a lot of time at work and so on. And i know for sure that i'd never date someone that i go to work with because if we break up i wouldn't want to deal with the potential drama at the workplace.

ESTP women probably have an easier time with dating overall because of how extroverted they are for the most part. But there's still this emotional detachment that is more or less present in all female thinker types have which throws many men off since we're supposed to be the "sensitive, sweet, emotional and feminine" ones in the relationship. So i was wondering what fellow xSTP women think about this? People that have a good understanding of Jungian typology and/or know xSTP women, especially ISTPs can of course feel free to add to the conversation.

From one perspective, i like living in the moment and in the sensory world and i am slightly thrill-seeking too so i can be really seductive and fun around people that i really like and know well. But on the other hand my Fe is inferior and i hate social interaction and getting to know people overall. So most people never get to meet the more fun, carefree side of me. And at least ESTP's Fe is their 3rd function so i suppose they have a slightly easier time connecting to people and being emotionally vulnerable, which would make it easier for their wild and sexy Se-ish nature to be brought out so they have the advantage of being capable to potentially be really sexual.

Not saying that they're promiscuous or whatever, but that maybe they have an easier time connecting to someone enough that they'd be willing to sleep with them and that they probably have an easier time with attracting men through their sexual openness and extroversion. Whereas us ISTPs are for the most part way too aloof and "tough". We're hard to get to know and even harder to be emotionally close to so that sex and romance can follow unless your an ISTP that's into one night stands. It's obviously possible because of our strong Se usage and love for all things sensory but more rare i think because of our Fe inferior. I'm sure that male ISTPs are more into casual sex compared to ISTP women.

The only people that are truly familiar with the more "fun and wild" side of me are the only female girl friend that i have (i tend to trigger jealousy in and intimidate most women, my friend's an ENTP) and a good ENFP male friend of mine who lives in a different country. It took me my whole life to essentially find 2 people that i can actually call friends although i wouldn't say that I'm awfully close to them either. We usually call/text only about once a week, sometimes once every two weeks. So how could i possibly open up enough to have an intimate and/or romantic relationship with someone? I don't want to dramatize but it seems incredibly far-fetched, almost completely impossible.

I know that i'm still young and that i have my whole life ahead of me but my personality won't really change overnight, even if i end up becoming more quote-in-qupte mature and slightly more social as i grow older. I don't mean to brag/put myself on a pedestal but objectively speaking, i'm really good looking. My eyes are blue, my hair is jet black. I have a tiny nose, big lips and almond eyes. I essentially look like a stereotypical IG model/bimbo which probably gives me an advantage over other ISTP women because it kind of compensates for my abnormal emotional detachment and my aloofness. But even though men are physically attracted to me, they have no idea how to interact with me.

Whenever a man starts getting to know me, there's almost always an extreme personality clash. I look like a bimbo so they expect me to be a bimbo too. I'd say that i have a really sophisticated yet sassy, femme fatale-ish clothing style (a.k.a. my attire is much more "feminine" than casual Western woman's) so men always expect me to be very stereotypically feminine too. I'd say that I'm very nerdy and overall knowledgeable in tons of different topics and subjects so i believe that I'd be a good match for "nerdy" and intellectual type of men but they're usually the ones that idiotically write me off as vain and dumb solely based on my physical appearance without ever having talked to me so they never really actually get to know me. Even when i don't have the whole "femme fatale" look on. In high school i used to dress really casually but people always categorized me as the "stupid mean girl" before even meeting me, without even interacting with me because of my looks.

I suppose that only very masculine men and brave men would be able to be in a relationship with me. On one hand i am somewhat masculine in my thinking and behavior so most people would instinctually suggest that more sensitive and slightly less masculine feeler men would suit me more so that we could balance each other out. But that would be the case only if i felt the need to take the more masculine, agressive role in relationships. I might not be ultra girly, emotional and submissive but I've never felt the need to dominate men either. Having a guy walk around me like a puppy and ordering him around isn't appealing to me. I know that everyone's different and i don't look down upon women that fit this category but it's simply not my thing.

I probably need to be with someone that can stimulate me intellectually (which is a hard task to begin with) and someone that's masculine enough so that their manliness won't be threatened by my presence, mind and behavior. And these types of super masculine men usually seek ultra-feminine women. So they'd need to be also looking for a smart and intellectually stimulating partner specifically. It'd be relatively hard to find a man with these three traits alone. What about physical appearance and social status?

I am not a vain woman, it's not like i'll turn down a man unless they look like a Calvin Klein model and a they're a fortune 500 CEO. And once again, i really don't want to sound like an asshole but i'm very attractive and once i start working my salary would be somewhat high. So i wouldn't really want to settle someone who's objectively ugly and still lives in their mom's basement. I expect to date someone who's at least average-looking and has their own job, place, car and fits all of the categories i already talked about above (masculine but not intimidated by women that aren't overly-feminine, someone who's looking for an intellectually stimulating partner). I suppose you can already tell why finding a partner would be incredibly hard for me.

Older men (10-15 or even 20 years older) are fine in my book so maybe it'd be better for me to give it a try with someone older. But even then, the idea of me being affectionate and emotionally vulnerable with someone sounds comedic. After i graduated high school i made a promise to myself to at least try to be more open-minded as far as dating and social interaction overall goes. But I'm still the highly emotionally detached, asocial and slightly misanthropic person that i've always been. I don't think that i'll be ever able to completely change. And if i need to be honest, i'm slightly worried that i'll end up being alone forever. I am honestly somewhat fine with it because i've always been a lone wolf and i have a preference for being on my own. But there's still a part of me that longs for a potential connection with someone anyways. And it's really conflicting. The world of dating and socializing has always been a mystery to me.

To begin always nice to meet another high Se sensor, welcome. Hail and well met *Viking handshake*.

Tis wise to not date at work. Even if it works out for a while and the end isn't bitter, work needs to be a place free from those kind of memories ime. Not saying it can't workoit for folk, just feels like a bit of an unnecessary complication. Anyways, I will say I don't nessesarily think you're doing anything wrong, you seem like you're focusing on getting where you want to be with your personal professional goals and that will make it easier imo to find what your looking for long term. You've got a good head on your shoulders from what I can tell so far, and I'm guessing you're pretty good at active observation? (High Se one typically is whether we advertise it or not)

As far as boys being intimidated, alas tis often too true, but trust me there are guys out there who like strong women who don't fit any kindof stereotype of behavior/aesthetics. If you have personal interests that take you out where others gather, kyaking, hiking, going to conventions, DND(if you're nerdy🧙) and you might meet someone who you just can sort of naturally get to know and see what happens.

You seem to be pretty Frank and up front about who you are, and that's a fantastic trait, many guys will appreciate that. And you touched on it before, but there's nothing wrong with dating someone older if you connect better. Whatever you decide. Just keep doing you. Don't feel the need to change who you are o. The surface toease someone else's insecurities. As far as more submissive guys, the puppy mode isn't nessesarily the mode all of them stay in, some switch. Some never puppy at all...🤔...unless you want them to. :shrug:

One of the things I like to do when dating is develop my own hobbies and interests and see if I happen to connect with anyone along the way. That way regardless what happens, I'll have improved myself and the rest is just adventure time. Good luck. Hope to see you around forum.
 

JenniferCheck

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
32
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so
To begin always nice to meet another high Se sensor, welcome. Hail and well met *Viking handshake*.

Tis wise to not date at work. Even if it works out for a while and the end isn't bitter, work needs to be a place free from those kind of memories ime. Not saying it can't workoit for folk, just feels like a bit of an unnecessary complication. Anyways, I will say I don't nessesarily think you're doing anything wrong, you seem like you're focusing on getting where you want to be with your personal professional goals and that will make it easier imo to find what your looking for long term. You've got a good head on your shoulders from what I can tell so far, and I'm guessing you're pretty good at active observation? (High Se one typically is whether we advertise it or not)

As far as boys being intimidated, alas tis often too true, but trust me there are guys out there who like strong women who don't fit any kindof stereotype of behavior/aesthetics. If you have personal interests that take you out where others gather, kyaking, hiking, going to conventions, DND(if you're nerdy🧙) and you might meet someone who you just can sort of naturally get to know and see what happens.

You seem to be pretty Frank and up front about who you are, and that's a fantastic trait, many guys will appreciate that. And you touched on it before, but there's nothing wrong with dating someone older if you connect better. Whatever you decide. Just keep doing you. Don't feel the need to change who you are o. The surface toease someone else's insecurities. As far as more submissive guys, the puppy mode isn't nessesarily the mode all of them stay in, some switch. Some never puppy at all...🤔...unless you want them to. :shrug:

One of the things I like to do when dating is develop my own hobbies and interests and see if I happen to connect with anyone along the way. That way regardless what happens, I'll have improved myself and the rest is just adventure time. Good luck. Hope to see you around forum.

Thanks. Seems like a good idea :).
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
15,879
Actually when it comes to dating Enneagram is much more important than MBTI. Since life philosophy is more important than cognitive processing in this regard.
Therefore I would focus more on that aspect of the equation in a search for solutions.
 

JenniferCheck

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
32
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so
Actually when it comes to dating Enneagram is much more important than MBTI. Since life philosophy is more important than cognitive processing in this regard.
Therefore I would focus more on that aspect of the equation in a search for solutions.
You're probably right but it seems like many other xSTP women have a harder time dating so there's also a correlation with MBTI, that's why i made the thread.
 
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