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[SP] Dating and having intimate relationships as an attractive ISTP (or ESTP) woman?

JenniferCheck

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Hey. I know that there are other threads about ISTP women but the ones i found were really old and none of them seemed to be mainly focused on dating as an ISTP or an ESTP woman. They were way too general ("What are ISTP women like?" and et cetera). So i decided to create one.

I am still quite young (23 years old) but dating seems so... unnatural for my personality. And i kind of feel like I've wasted my teenage and young adult years in a sense because i missed my chance to explore how relationships/intimacy work when i had less responsibility and much more free time back in high school and at the beginning of university. I've almost completed my computer science degree and am probably going to be employed soon so it'd be even harder for me to meet potential partners since I'd be spending a lot of time at work and so on. And i know for sure that i'd never date someone that i go to work with because if we break up i wouldn't want to deal with the potential drama at the workplace.

ESTP women probably have an easier time with dating overall because of how extroverted they are for the most part. But there's still this emotional detachment that is more or less present in all female thinker types have which throws many men off since we're supposed to be the "sensitive, sweet, emotional and feminine" ones in the relationship. So i was wondering what fellow xSTP women think about this? People that have a good understanding of Jungian typology and/or know xSTP women, especially ISTPs can of course feel free to add to the conversation.

From one perspective, i like living in the moment and in the sensory world and i am slightly thrill-seeking too so i can be really seductive and fun around people that i really like and know well. But on the other hand my Fe is inferior and i hate social interaction and getting to know people overall. So most people never get to meet the more fun, carefree side of me. And at least ESTP's Fe is their 3rd function so i suppose they have a slightly easier time connecting to people and being emotionally vulnerable, which would make it easier for their wild and sexy Se-ish nature to be brought out so they have the advantage of being capable to potentially be really sexual.

Not saying that they're promiscuous or whatever, but that maybe they have an easier time connecting to someone enough that they'd be willing to sleep with them and that they probably have an easier time with attracting men through their sexual openness and extroversion. Whereas us ISTPs are for the most part way too aloof and "tough". We're hard to get to know and even harder to be emotionally close to so that sex and romance can follow unless your an ISTP that's into one night stands. It's obviously possible because of our strong Se usage and love for all things sensory but more rare i think because of our Fe inferior. I'm sure that male ISTPs are more into casual sex compared to ISTP women.

The only people that are truly familiar with the more "fun and wild" side of me are the only female girl friend that i have (i tend to trigger jealousy in and intimidate most women, my friend's an ENTP) and a good ENFP male friend of mine who lives in a different country. It took me my whole life to essentially find 2 people that i can actually call friends although i wouldn't say that I'm awfully close to them either. We usually call/text only about once a week, sometimes once every two weeks. So how could i possibly open up enough to have an intimate and/or romantic relationship with someone? I don't want to dramatize but it seems incredibly far-fetched, almost completely impossible.

I know that i'm still young and that i have my whole life ahead of me but my personality won't really change overnight, even if i end up becoming more quote-in-qupte mature and slightly more social as i grow older. I don't mean to brag/put myself on a pedestal but objectively speaking, i'm really good looking. My eyes are blue, my hair is jet black. I have a tiny nose, big lips and almond eyes. I essentially look like a stereotypical IG model/bimbo which probably gives me an advantage over other ISTP women because it kind of compensates for my abnormal emotional detachment and my aloofness. But even though men are physically attracted to me, they have no idea how to interact with me.

Whenever a man starts getting to know me, there's almost always an extreme personality clash. I look like a bimbo so they expect me to be a bimbo too. I'd say that i have a really sophisticated yet sassy, femme fatale-ish clothing style (a.k.a. my attire is much more "feminine" than casual Western woman's) so men always expect me to be very stereotypically feminine too. I'd say that I'm very nerdy and overall knowledgeable in tons of different topics and subjects so i believe that I'd be a good match for "nerdy" and intellectual type of men but they're usually the ones that idiotically write me off as vain and dumb solely based on my physical appearance without ever having talked to me so they never really actually get to know me. Even when i don't have the whole "femme fatale" look on. In high school i used to dress really casually but people always categorized me as the "stupid mean girl" before even meeting me, without even interacting with me because of my looks.

I suppose that only very masculine men and brave men would be able to be in a relationship with me. On one hand i am somewhat masculine in my thinking and behavior so most people would instinctually suggest that more sensitive and slightly less masculine feeler men would suit me more so that we could balance each other out. But that would be the case only if i felt the need to take the more masculine, agressive role in relationships. I might not be ultra girly, emotional and submissive but I've never felt the need to dominate men either. Having a guy walk around me like a puppy and ordering him around isn't appealing to me. I know that everyone's different and i don't look down upon women that fit this category but it's simply not my thing.

I probably need to be with someone that can stimulate me intellectually (which is a hard task to begin with) and someone that's masculine enough so that their manliness won't be threatened by my presence, mind and behavior. And these types of super masculine men usually seek ultra-feminine women. So they'd need to be also looking for a smart and intellectually stimulating partner specifically. It'd be relatively hard to find a man with these three traits alone. What about physical appearance and social status?

I am not a vain woman, it's not like i'll turn down a man unless they look like a Calvin Klein model and a they're a fortune 500 CEO. And once again, i really don't want to sound like an asshole but i'm very attractive and once i start working my salary would be somewhat high. So i wouldn't really want to settle someone who's objectively ugly and still lives in their mom's basement. I expect to date someone who's at least average-looking and has their own job, place, car and fits all of the categories i already talked about above (masculine but not intimidated by women that aren't overly-feminine, someone who's looking for an intellectually stimulating partner). I suppose you can already tell why finding a partner would be incredibly hard for me.

Older men (10-15 or even 20 years older) are fine in my book so maybe it'd be better for me to give it a try with someone older. But even then, the idea of me being affectionate and emotionally vulnerable with someone sounds comedic. After i graduated high school i made a promise to myself to at least try to be more open-minded as far as dating and social interaction overall goes. But I'm still the highly emotionally detached, asocial and slightly misanthropic person that i've always been. I don't think that i'll be ever able to completely change. And if i need to be honest, i'm slightly worried that i'll end up being alone forever. I am honestly somewhat fine with it because i've always been a lone wolf and i have a preference for being on my own. But there's still a part of me that longs for a potential connection with someone anyways. And it's really conflicting. The world of dating and socializing has always been a mystery to me.
 
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highlander

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I'm bumping this thread because it got stuck in a moderation queue so it doesn't get lost
 

JenniferCheck

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I apologize for all of the typos. Some of these sentences make me sound like an illiterate idiot, lol. To be fair, i am not a native English speaker but still.
 

Abcdenfp

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I have so many thoughts on this I need to organize them. So I will circle back to this.
I will say that acknowledging that this is an area you struggle with but desire to make adjustments to is a good start at this .
I also think it is very normal for ISTPs in general to not have relationships as the focus in their early years that comes with development and maturity.
It is good to be the lone wolf it's a part of who you are ferociously independent and self sufficient but even a wolf needs a comrade.
take a look at the two friends you have , what aspects of their personalities allows you to drop your guard and let them see a different side to you.
without question I find ISTPs both males and females like their partners to be attractive , so it's not unusual for you to have their high on your list.
some men don't like over emotional women, not all men like the dramatics and flare.
 

Luminous

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I guess we need a thread for "unattractive" ISTP women too.
 

JenniferCheck

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I guess we need a thread for "unattractive" ISTP women too.

LOL i specifically mentioned attractive because women that look a certain way tend to be boxed into a stupid category (bimbo/vain bitch and etc.) by society which obviously doesn't sit well with ISTP/ESTP and overall thinker type women because people's idea of who we might be personality-wise has nothing to do with reality/what we're actually like which makes dating automatically even harder for us since we tend to attract people that assume we're going to be stupid and/or overly feminine and not people that would actually match us.
 

JenniferCheck

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I have so many thoughts on this I need to organize them. So I will circle back to this.
I will say that acknowledging that this is an area you struggle with but desire to make adjustments to is a good start at this .
I also think it is very normal for ISTPs in general to not have relationships as the focus in their early years that comes with development and maturity.
It is good to be the lone wolf it's a part of who you are ferociously independent and self sufficient but even a wolf needs a comrade.
take a look at the two friends you have , what aspects of their personalities allows you to drop your guard and let them see a different side to you.
without question I find ISTPs both males and females like their partners to be attractive , so it's not unusual for you to have their high on your list.
some men don't like over emotional women, not all men like the dramatics and flare.

Yeah, i get it. It's really frustrating because the men that i tend to attract prefer these type of women and i feel extremely incompatible with everyone. As far as what traits my friends have that make me open up - they're simply intelligent and open-minded. When they met me they didn't assume that i was a massive bitch simply because i was aloof and not very talkative which is usually what people think of me before even getting to know me. They respected my boundaries and didn't expect me to open up immediately. You'd be surprised by how rare that is to find in people. They're also very knowledgeable and i can discuss tons of different things with them which is something that i always seek in relationships (both platonic and romantic ones).
 

Luminous

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LOL i specifically mentioned attractive because women that look a certain way tend to be boxed into a stupid category (bimbo/vain bitch and etc.) by society which obviously doesn't sit well with ISTP/ESTP and overall thinker type women because people's idea of who we might be personality-wise has nothing to do with reality/what we're actually like which makes dating automatically even harder for us since we tend to attract people that assume we're going to be stupid and/or overly feminine and not people that would actually match us.

You're assuming that female Fs aren't as smart as you, don't have their own issues in relationships, and there's a huge difference between mentioning you're attractive and saying that wars have been fought over your looks (the latter comes off as being arrogant and vain). I am an F dom, and I'm also extremely intelligent, though some people assume otherwise because I am F dom, and do have a sense of humor and playfulness.
 

JenniferCheck

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You're assuming that female Fs aren't as smart as you, don't have their own issues in relationships, and there's a huge difference between mentioning you're attractive and saying that wars have been fought over your looks. I am an F dom, and I'm also extremely intelligent, though some people assume otherwise because I am F dom, and do have a sense of humor and playfulness.

I am absolutely not saying that F types aren't smart. That'd be just as idiotic as people saying that intuitives are always more intelligent than sensors. I don't even know what this thread has to do with intelligence per se to begin with. And of course that everyone has personal issues. Just saying that women and overall people with a feeling function high up in their function stack (a.k.a. feelers) tend to have an easier time being emotionally vulnerable, especially if they're Fe-doms or auxiliaries. And i made this thread about ISTP/ESTP women specifically because we're one of the least stereotypically "feminine" types out there and there's always been a social expectation for women to be more caring and/or emotional compared to men which doesn't usually fit the description of who we are personality-wise, at least not for the most part. Ergo, in many cases we have even more hardships when it comes to dating/socializing compared to the average woman (75% of women are feelers) since we are often perceived as "different" in a bad way by society. And this forum was created so that people can talk about typology and discuss the differences/similarities between the different types as well as the common hardships of the different types. I don't know who has perceived you as unintelligent because you're an F-dom of some sort but this isn't what I'm doing so you can feel free to stop projecting. Also, did i ever say anything that could be possibly paraphrased as something between the lines of "wars have been fought over my looks"? I don't think so. I apologize for not being faux-humble enough for your taste. I've always had a preference for being blunt, honest and saying it like it is. And I'm simply sharing my personal experiences. It's not meant to be an attack on you or anyone else. Aside from the obvious passive-agressiveness, I'm not sure about what you could possibly contribute to this thread.
 

Luminous

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I am absolutely not saying that F types aren't smart. That'd be just as idiotic as people saying that intuitives are always more intelligent than sensors. I don't even know what this thread has to do with intelligence. And of course that everyone has personal issues. Just saying that women and overall people with a feeling function high up in their function stack (a.k.a. feelers) tend to have an easier time being emotionally vulnerable, especially if they're Fe-doms or auxiliaries. And i made this thread about ISTP/ESTP women specifically because we're one of the least stereotypically "feminine" types out there and there's always been a social expectation for women to be more caring and/or emotional compared to men which doesn't usually fit the description of who we are personality-wise, at least not for the most part. Ergo, in many cases we have even more hardships when it comes to dating/socializing compared to the average woman (75% of women are feelers) since we are often perceived as "different" in a bad way by society. And this forum was created so that people can talk about typology and discuss the differences/similarities between the different types as well as the common hardships of the different types. I don't know who has perceived you as unintelligent because you're an F-dom of some sort but this isn't what I'm doing so you can feel free to stop projecting. Also, did i ever say anything that could be possibly paraphrased as something between the lines of "wars have been fought over my looks"? I don't think so. I apologize for not being faux-humble enough for your taste. I've always had a preference for being blunt, honest and saying it like it is. And I'm simply sharing my personal experiences. It's not meant to be an attack on you or anyone else. Aside from the obvious passive-agressiveness, I'm not sure about what you could possibly contribute to this thread.

Your attitude is off-putting, which might be good feedback for you, since you have issues relating to other people. If you're not interested in that feedback, I will gladly exit the thread.
 

JenniferCheck

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Your attitude is off-putting, which might be good feedback for you, since you have issues relating to other people. If you're not interested in that feedback, I will gladly exit the thread.
I am being off-putting right now because you're the one that came to this thread and accused me of assuming that you're unintelligent (which isn't the case) and tried to shame me about writing about my personal experiences in a manner that wasn't "humble"/self-deprecating enough in your opinion. You can feel free to get off your high horse and stop expecting people to be nice to you when you're not even being respectful to begin with. Just like i already said, this is passive-aggressiveness and not quote-in-quote feedback as far as i'm personally concerned.
 

Abcdenfp

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Yeah, i get it. It's really frustrating because the men that i tend to attract prefer these type of women and i feel extremely incompatible with everyone. As far as what traits my friends have that make me open up - they're simply intelligent and open-minded. When they met me they didn't assume that i was a massive bitch simply because i was aloof and not very talkative which is usually what people think of me before even getting to know me. They respected my boundaries and didn't expect me to open up immediately. You'd be surprised by how rare that is to find in people. They're also very knowledgeable and i can discuss tons of different things with them which is something that i always seek in relationships (both platonic and romantic ones).

I think this is really important to most ISTPS , I find it interesting because its like a complex puzzle, your wall is usually right up front so there isn't a lot of game playing which can come off as refreshing to certain types and your ability to be spontaneous and yet relaxed at the same time makes it interesting to be around your type. Also shit is chill until its not chill LOL. you don't tend to back down.

I love watching ISTPS in action. Its like movement is approached when necessary otherwise your in relaxed almost storing energy mode. Never met a female ISTP pretty cool stuff.

Do you find that random people want to talk to you?
 

JenniferCheck

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I think this is really important to most ISTPS , I find it interesting because its like a complex puzzle, your wall is usually right up front so there isn't a lot of game playing which can come off as refreshing to certain types and your ability to be spontaneous and yet relaxed at the same time makes it interesting to be around your type. Also shit is chill until its not chill LOL. you don't tend to back down.

I love watching ISTPS in action. Its like movement is approached when necessary otherwise your in relaxed almost storing energy mode. Never met a female ISTP pretty cool stuff.

Do you find that random people want to talk to you?
Thank you, i guess. I really enjoy the company of ENFPs so the feeling is mutual :)!

And yes, I'm really not into playing "social games", so to speak. I like being direct and honest. What do you mean by random people though?
 

Abcdenfp

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Thank you, i guess. I really enjoy the company of ENFPs so the feeling is mutual :)!

And yes, I'm really not into playing "social games", so to speak. I like being direct and honest. What do you mean by random people though?

Yeah I know that 100% about Istp's social games don't fly. If you have a question ask straight up. The more direct the better just watch the boundary. Enough trust and the boundary line expands..SLOWLY.

when i say random people let me explain a little better: In observing the response that people have around an Istp , I have found that Istp's despite their aloofness can experience people find excuses to try and make conversation with them. its like their are magnetic for a reason the other person cant figure out. Wasn't sure if that translated for you as well.
 

Methylene

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Hey. I know that there are other threads about ISTP women but the ones i found were really old and none of them seemed to be mainly focused on dating as an ISTP or an ESTP woman. They were way too general ("What are ISTP women like?" and et cetera). So i decided to create one.

I am still quite young (23 years old) but dating seems so... unnatural for my personality. And i kind of feel like I've wasted my teenage and young adult years in a sense because i missed my chance to explore how relationships/intimacy work when i had less responsibility and much more free time back in high school and at the beginning of university. I've almost completed my computer science degree and am probably going to be employed soon so it'd be even harder for me to meet potential partners since I'd be spending a lot of time at work and so on. And i know for sure that i'd never date someone that i go to work with because if we break up i wouldn't want to deal with the potential drama at the workplace.

ESTP women probably have an easier time with dating overall because of how extroverted they are for the most part. But there's still this emotional detachment that is more or less present in all female thinker types have which throws many men off since we're supposed to be the "sensitive, sweet, emotional and feminine" ones in the relationship. So i was wondering what fellow xSTP women think about this? People that have a good understanding of Jungian typology and/or know xSTP women, especially ISTPs can of course feel free to add to the conversation.

From one perspective, i like living in the moment and in the sensory world and i am slightly thrill-seeking too so i can be really seductive and fun around people that i really like and know well. But on the other hand my Fe is inferior and i hate social interaction and getting to know people overall. So most people never get to meet the more fun, carefree side of me. And at least ESTP's Fe is their 3rd function so i suppose they have a slightly easier time connecting to people and being emotionally vulnerable, which would make it easier for their wild and sexy Se-ish nature to be brought out so they have the advantage of being capable to potentially be really sexual.

Not saying that they're promiscuous or whatever, but that maybe they have an easier time connecting to someone enough that they'd be willing to sleep with them and that they probably have an easier time with attracting men through their sexual openness and extroversion. Whereas us ISTPs are for the most part way too aloof and "tough". We're hard to get to know and even harder to be emotionally close to so that sex and romance can follow unless your an ISTP that's into one night stands. It's obviously possible because of our strong Se usage and love for all things sensory but more rare i think because of our Fe inferior. I'm sure that male ISTPs are more into casual sex compared to ISTP women.

The only people that are truly familiar with the more "fun and wild" side of me are the only female girl friend that i have (i tend to trigger jealousy in and intimidate most women, my friend's an ENTP) and a good ENFP male friend of mine who lives in a different country. It took me my whole life to essentially find 2 people that i can actually call friends although i wouldn't say that I'm awfully close to them either. We usually call/text only about once a week, sometimes once every two weeks. So how could i possibly open up enough to have an intimate and/or romantic relationship with someone? I don't want to dramatize but it seems incredibly far-fetched, almost completely impossible.

I know that i'm still young and that i have my whole life ahead of me but my personality won't really change overnight, even if i end up becoming more quote-in-qupte mature and slightly more social as i grow older. I don't mean to brag/put myself on a pedestal but objectively speaking, i'm really good looking. My eyes are blue, my hair is jet black. I have a tiny nose, big lips and almond eyes. I essentially look like a stereotypical IG model/bimbo which probably gives me an advantage over other ISTP women because it kind of compensates for my abnormal emotional detachment and my aloofness. But even though men are physically attracted to me, they have no idea how to interact with me.

Whenever a man starts getting to know me, there's almost always an extreme personality clash. I look like a bimbo so they expect me to be a bimbo too. I'd say that i have a really sophisticated yet sassy, femme fatale-ish clothing style (a.k.a. my attire is much more "feminine" than casual Western woman's) so men always expect me to be very stereotypically feminine too. I'd say that I'm very nerdy and overall knowledgeable in tons of different topics and subjects so i believe that I'd be a good match for "nerdy" and intellectual type of men but they're usually the ones that idiotically write me off as vain and dumb solely based on my physical appearance without ever having talked to me so they never really actually get to know me. Even when i don't have the whole "femme fatale" look on. In high school i used to dress really casually but people always categorized me as the "stupid mean girl" before even meeting me, without even interacting with me because of my looks.

I suppose that only very masculine men and brave men would be able to be in a relationship with me. On one hand i am somewhat masculine in my thinking and behavior so most people would instinctually suggest that more sensitive and slightly less masculine feeler men would suit me more so that we could balance each other out. But that would be the case only if i felt the need to take the more masculine, agressive role in relationships. I might not be ultra girly, emotional and submissive but I've never felt the need to dominate men either. Having a guy walk around me like a puppy and ordering him around isn't appealing to me. I know that everyone's different and i don't look down upon women that fit this category but it's simply not my thing.

I probably need to be with someone that can stimulate me intellectually (which is a hard task to begin with) and someone that's masculine enough so that their manliness won't be threatened by my presence, mind and behavior. And these types of super masculine men usually seek ultra-feminine women. So they'd need to be also looking for a smart and intellectually stimulating partner specifically. It'd be relatively hard to find a man with these three traits alone. What about physical appearance and social status?

I am not a vain woman, it's not like i'll turn down a man unless they look like a Calvin Klein model and a they're a fortune 500 CEO. And once again, i really don't want to sound like an asshole but i'm very attractive and once i start working my salary would be somewhat high. So i wouldn't really want to settle someone who's objectively ugly and still lives in their mom's basement. I expect to date someone who's at least average-looking and has their own job, place, car and fits all of the categories i already talked about above (masculine but not intimidated by women that aren't overly-feminine, someone who's looking for an intellectually stimulating partner). I suppose you can already tell why finding a partner would be incredibly hard for me.

Older men (10-15 or even 20 years older) are fine in my book so maybe it'd be better for me to give it a try with someone older. But even then, the idea of me being affectionate and emotionally vulnerable with someone sounds comedic. After i graduated high school i made a promise to myself to at least try to be more open-minded as far as dating and social interaction overall goes. But I'm still the highly emotionally detached, asocial and slightly misanthropic person that i've always been. I don't think that i'll be ever able to completely change. And if i need to be honest, i'm slightly worried that i'll end up being alone forever. I am honestly somewhat fine with it because i've always been a lone wolf and i have a preference for being on my own. But there's still a part of me that longs for a potential connection with someone anyways. And it's really conflicting. The world of dating and socializing has always been a mystery to me.

INTP here, and about your age. Some quick comments to this wall of text, since in here it's 2am and I'm too tired to work on a coherent speech.

I think you've been putting yourself through a self-fulfilling profecy, as you seem to be interested in "more masculine, brave men", I think you've been unconsciously been choosing the same kind of men who deem good looking girls as bimbos. In your twenties, things like looks finally start to matter less in forming relationships.

I get that. I'm in STEM too, and I had to prove my worth many times. More than over my looks, it's been just because I was a girl.

I've never seen not being enough emotional as a problem in dating, men seem to be indifferent to it, actually.

Deep down, you seem to have a "I'm not like other girls" complex. I feel into that too, as a Ti. I also think you've idealized a bit too much everything about xSTPs.
 

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First of all- welcome to the forum.

Second of all- type isnt everything. People of all sorts can have difficulties with relationships.

I know that sounds unhelpful, and you are right- cognitive functions probably cause some people to struggle with things maybe more than others.

But the important thing to do is to look at modifiable factors. What can you do in order to get where you want to go? Are there things that you can work on in order to facilitate the experience that you want? Or have you accepted that as an impossibility because of your type?

Are you putting it on other people to be what you want them to be without understanding that half of a relationship comes from you? Its fine to have standards- its good for you to know what you want. But using standards (potentially) as an excuse for not developing relationship skills probably isnt that smart. You are just putting up roadblocks.
 

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so
Yeah I know that 100% about Istp's social games don't fly. If you have a question ask straight up. The more direct the better just watch the boundary. Enough trust and the boundary line expands..SLOWLY.

when i say random people let me explain a little better: In observing the response that people have around an Istp , I have found that Istp's despite their aloofness can experience people find excuses to try and make conversation with them. its like their are magnetic for a reason the other person cant figure out. Wasn't sure if that translated for you as well.

Oh, i get what you're saying now.
Well, just like you said - despite being very relaxed for the most part, we can easily switch up to being more physical/lively when we want to. So being able to be both aloof and in tune with our physical environment (as opposed to for ex. the emotionally detached and aloof yet somewhat frigid INTJs) might be seen as alluring/mysterious to people?
I think that my resting bitch face scares many people off and most only stare at me instead of approaching me. But sure, I've been randomly/anxiously approached by many people out of nowhere, so there might be some truth to this. I've honestly never thought about this up until now.
 

JenniferCheck

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
32
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so
First of all- welcome to the forum.

Second of all- type isnt everything. People of all sorts can have difficulties with relationships.

I know that sounds unhelpful, and you are right- cognitive functions probably cause some people to struggle with things maybe more than others.

But the important thing to do is to look at modifiable factors. What can you do in order to get where you want to go? Are there things that you can work on in order to facilitate the experience that you want? Or have you accepted that as an impossibility because of your type?

Are you putting it on other people to be what you want them to be without understanding that half of a relationship comes from you? Its fine to have standards- its good for you to know what you want. But using standards (potentially) as an excuse for not developing relationship skills probably isnt that smart. You are just putting up roadblocks.

Thank you. And i completely agree. I'm not that fatalistic, i don't think that it's truly impossible for me to ever date because of my type or anything like that. But i can get really hopeless sometimes.
I understand that half of the relationship comes from me. I am however sick of people (incl. potential partners) projecting their ideas of who i might be as a person (that 99.9% of the time couldn't be more far from who i actually am) solely based on my physical appearance because my actions/behavior/intentions are being misinterpreted all the time which makes it hard to connect with anyone, really. Not just romantically, platonically too. I get that we're all subconsciously biased to an extent and have animalistic instincts that dictate a lot of the human nature but at the end of the day what separates us from animals is our prefrontal cortex. So we might as well use it and consciously make sure to be open-minded and try to not put people into boxes. It's what i personally do and expect other people to do the same thing but i nearly always end up being disappointed.

You are right though that i sometimes tend to be put up roadblocks which i can use as an excuse for not dating/socializing. I guess it's from one point of view understandable given how much negative experiences i've had with connecting to people and society as a whole but it's still not a mature thing to do.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It's good to have some STPs around because we don't often have them. I'm wondering a bit about your actual environment. When I was young I was in very incompatible environments for my own socialization. Small communities have have very specific values and can make outsiders out of people, but it is a very big world and there could be other environments where you find a lot of compatibility for socializing and dating. There is a stereotype for "traditional relationships", but there is also a way that women who are a bit tom-boy-ish can be particularly successful with relating to men.

My experience is abysmal, so I don't necessarily know the answers, but just that the world is big.
 

JenniferCheck

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
32
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so
INTP here, and about your age. Some quick comments to this wall of text, since in here it's 2am and I'm too tired to work on a coherent speech.

I think you've been putting yourself through a self-fulfilling profecy, as you seem to be interested in "more masculine, brave men", I think you've been unconsciously been choosing the same kind of men who deem good looking girls as bimbos. In your twenties, things like looks finally start to matter less in forming relationships.

I get that. I'm in STEM too, and I had to prove my worth many times. More than over my looks, it's been just because I was a girl.

I've never seen not being enough emotional as a problem in dating, men seem to be indifferent to it, actually.

Deep down, you seem to have a "I'm not like other girls" complex. I feel into that too, as a Ti. I also think you've idealized a bit too much everything about xSTPs.

It's fine, it's 3 AM in here too and i can barely read. I honestly have tried connecting with less stereotypically masculine men (like my ENFP male friend) and while they can be fun to be around and nice for a change, they're still a tad bit too emotional for my taste. They make great friends but i'd crush him if i were his lover. I can just easily overpower him without even trying. There's really nothing wrong with being an abstract, creative, sensitive man but when compared to a really logical, emotionally detached, "tough" and "wild" (because of my thrill-seeking and love all things sensory like hunting, cars, partying and et cetera) woman i can seem much more masculine than they are overall. Once again, if i wanted to be in charge of the relationship I'd be completely fine with it but that's not really the case. I am never going to be traditionally submissive but i wouldn't mind the man in the relationship to take charge once in a while, even if our relationship is quite egalitarian-ish. Which would require a man that's quite stereotypically masculine and leader-ish. ISTPs are allegedly the most compatible with ESTJs and ENTJs and i can definitely see why, especially if you're a woman. These types are Te-doms, it'd be way harder to intimidate them/make them feel less masuline and so on.

And the "not like other girls" complex is confusing to me. I've met these exact "i'm better than all of you, b#tches!" women in real life. They're also often the type of women that put down other women in front of potential boyfriends and et cetera and i've always found them to be incredibly irritating and pathetic. To me, that's the definition of this phenomenon. But you know damn well as an INTP and a TI-dom that most of us Ti-dom or thinker women are indeed in many ways "not like other girls". Not because we're better than other women, it's just that we're somewhat different as far as our demeanor, behavioral preferences and/or interests are concerned. This doesn't make us better/worse than other women. It is what it is, somewhat of an "abnormality" among women. I've never considered myself to be superior to other more traditionally feminine/girly women so i don't necessarily agree with this. If anything, many stereotypically feminine girls have been the ones that habe bullied me/that i've been singled out by growing up because i didn't really fit in as much among girls. My female ENTP friend can be really blunt and slightly masculine in her thinking but she's a thousand times more feminine than i am. We do get along perfectly however simply because she's always been respectful and understanding. And many traditionally "feminine" girls are usually the ones to judge ME and think they're better than me because of my "different" behavior, not vice versa.
 
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