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Cold war 2.0

The Cat

The Cat in the Tinfoil Hat..
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
27,425
Rule of Acquisition #34: War is good for business.
Rule of Acquisition #35: Peace is good for business.​
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,168


You can watch the whole video if you want but at 3:52 there is map of Russian Black sea fleet ships that were sunken thus far.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,168


It is Jan. 1th and it is already rocking around nuclear power plants.
This is really going to be drama heavy year.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,168



This isn't how it will be in the bad case scenario. Russia will attack countries in the region that are outside of NATO. Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and perhaps a few more. However they wouldn't directly touch NATO as long as it works as it works today. However with the fall of Ukraine Russia will once again become neighbor of a number of countries in the ex Warsaw pact. In other words in many of those places you still have relevant political parties that are pro Russia. Some are on the left and they flirt with Communist iconography and the others are ultra nationalists that just want to own the libs.

However these two are often totally willing to work together to short circuit the current US friendly order. Therefore once Russia comes into direct contact with those places that will further boost such political parties and that is where the problem is. Since in that case you are risking the scenario that is some kind of "fall of Berlin wall" but in reverse direction. What would be huge political blunder that can easily completely sink image and position of the US in the world. Which is already on quite shaky grounds and this is exactly why lives of US citizen are a mess at this point. Plus this would cause a massive loss of assets in the region, because trillions would go to the wind over time just in Eastern Europe. What basically means even less money for average US citizen, more security spending, and thus even more mess within US itself (and no one really knows how that will end). So those that say that the collective west is being defended in Ukraine mean that quite literally. Since the odds are that this will have evident snowball effects for US in the big global picture. Because fall of Ukraine would basically mean that US is no longer a superpower, especially since that would only add to some other blunders that happened over the last few years. It is kinda shame that US media are incapable of explaining this pretty simple truth to the country. If you are losing ground the odds are that your income will drop. That is how world works since ever.
 

SensEye

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
882
MBTI Type
INTp
I'm pretty sure if Ukraine gets abandoned to the point the whole country is taken over by Russia, Taiwan can kiss their independence goodbye as well. China won't wait around a decade for the US to repatriate their semiconductor industry either.

But there is a price to pay for leadership incompetence and the bi-partisan dysfunction the US has been experiencing since the Trump era. Five or so years from now (when hopefully the current clowns will be dead or at least out of politics) there will probably be some unpleasant hindsight.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
Enneagram
8w9
Democracy is only threatened when the people I don't like win... He says to himself ironically.

Not directed at you but at the article, and specifically in reference to the USA portion of the article (the rest is beyond the scope of what I'd be prepared to discuss in depth).

It's rich that they decline to mention the goings on with regard to Colorado and Maine presidential ballot access.

I wonder what they, deep in their hearts, mean when they say Democracy is threatened. Do they think democratic elections will no longer happen? I can't know but can only speculate. If they think it would mean an end to the democratic process, they're idiots unworthy of commenting on anything greater that a little league baseball game. Our elections will occur in the same "fortified" manner they have in the recent past, wherein both sides use every trick in the book they can get away with to tilt them in their preferred direction (the problem being that both sides aren't equally capable of doing this).

If, however, they mean that the monstrous power of our gov't might be turned against them if they turn out not to be holding its reins after Nov then I'd be less dubious of their mental capacity.

If we're being frank our gov't has been turned against it's people many times in the past. (Ruby Ridge and Waco, Hoover's use of the FBI in a multi decade crusade against the Reds, Obama's liberal use of the IRS against opponents)

Whether you think these actions were warranted depends largely on where you stand politically. And its the same today with this article.

The histrionic nature of the article reflects, I think, a more fundamental worry about the breakdown of political norms in the modern era.

Ruby Ridge and Waco aside, we had a pretty good stretch in the 90's where the US was hyper dominant, the economy was humming, and everyone was pretty bought in on the American project. But then we had 9/11 and the US gov't was turned into a surveillance state. We thought all the new power we gave the gov't wouldn't be turned against us, but then the public lost interest in the war on terror and the powers that be saw much more political utility in turning it against the domestic populace. Why didn't we just get rid of the unusual powers we gave the gov't after the war on terror winded down you might ask? Power is something the gov't never gives up willingly (with extremely rare exceptions). It's like a ratchet, it locks in the power it has now and only goes in one direction... growing.

So here we find ourselves. 9/11, the great financial crisis, the election of Trump, covid. All eroding the norms of what was the US in their own way. Each turning our government more and more into a weapon we use against ourselves. Each turning the next election into the most important election ever. Because increasingly it is. Elections feel like they matter much more when who wins determines who we loose the gov't dogs against.

As this happens the normal process of modern American politics breaks down, and all other theories become subservient to the friend/enemy distinction. Are you my friend? If so I want all gov't subsidies to go to you, I want the DOJ to overlook your transgressions, I want to lower your taxes and give you the benefit of the doubt. Are you my enemy? If so I want to assume all your motives are evil, I want the DOJ to go after you like their lives depend on it, I want you to get nothing from the gov't, in fact I want it to hinder and attack you in any and all ways possible.

For a while we had a unified enough country that we could all buy into a somewhat similar view of what America was. This agreed upon view was those norms that have eroded. Mass immigration has only eroded them further. With the electorate increasingly breaking into tribal and sometimes racial blocks. We were already eroding the norms on our own, but immigration has served as a catalyst increasing the rate of a chemical reaction that was already occurring. The less we have a shared culture, the more we are able to dehumanize each other and the more we are able to justify wielding the sword of gov't against our domestic foes.

The article reflects this, but mistakenly labels the problem as an erosion of democracy when what its referring to is a war that is probably as old as the country itself who's most recent iteration is at least several decades old.

This war, and the rise of the friend/enemy distinction is probably why I can almost never have a political conversation with US based users of this forum (with occasional exceptions @ygolo being the most recent example I think). Those used to happen all the time and in fact did almost endlessly. You as a European are kind of like a neutral third party looking in on our mess and (I assume) feel like its safe to talk to me. I wish, to be perfectly honest, you weren't the only one. But maybe there's nothing to be done about that. Maybe I have to irrevocably poisoned others against me (or they have poisoned themselves).

Anyway, I've rambled enough. As always I look forward to your reply but understand if I don't receive one.

Happy New Years! And look forward to a wild 2024 because it's certain to be one.
 
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