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Being an irrational type

Legion

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(to clarify, the irrational types are those whose dominant function is perception - Ni, Si, Ne, Se - so the IJ and EP types)

For me, my irrational nature comes through in my indecisiveness. While not a P type, I do tend towards leaving things to the last minute or trying to leave my options open, although sometimes I do have a more certain picture in mind.

And also the rules I make for myself are easily bent/broken. I'll decide "ok, I'm going to do things in this way" but then a time will come when I want to do things another way and I will easily break the rule I set, allowing myself plenty of "exceptions". Contrast this with say, INFP, who is going to have a much harder time breaking one of their principles.

So how do you see yourself, as an irrational type? Or, how do you see irrational types in general? What, to you, are the defining/notable features?

Also a note that there is material on irrational and rational types in Jung's Chapter X of Personality Types, if you want to do some reading on it.
 

Legion

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260px-Yin_yang.svg.png


Posting yin yang symbol, because there is an element of rational to the irrational, and an element of irrational to the rational.

The sensing and intuition functions are capable of being analysed in a rational manner, and similarly the thinking and feeling functions are experienced perceptually.
 

Virtual ghost

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Stuff like this is exaclty why I very often tend to think I am ENTJ that has simply been through a lot. I have no problems with making decisions and I enjoy making them, the only problem is that others tend to complain that I am choking them. So I go rogue/my own way, because I don't want to listen any of that. (since their softness is choking me)
 

Legion

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Stuff like this is exaclty why I very often tend to think I am ENTJ that has simply been through a lot. I have no problems with making decisions and I enjoy making them, the only problem is that others tend to complain that I am choking them. So I go rogue/my own way, because I don't want to listen any of that. (since their softness is choking me)

Yeah I can't quite picture an INTJ being described as choking others; I would expect the rogue there to be the default. Of course, I could be wrong, my understanding of Te is quite limited.
 

Virtual ghost

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Yeah I can't quite picture an INTJ being described as choking others; I would expect the rogue there to be the default. Of course, I could be wrong, my understanding of Te is quite limited.

What is why I went with this tritype. (even if this misses noticing my intellect)

5-8-2: these Fives are more focused on and involved with their environments. They’re typically quite imposing and intrusive on others’ lives although they don’t like it when the reverse happens. They are dedicated, courageous, confident and passionate people, sometimes overprotective of their loved ones and having a tendency to dominate and more or less subtly manipulate others into believing as they do. Aiming for a position of power and authority, these Fives have a deep urge to closely control their worlds.

It sounds almost as a mistake in typing. This should be 852 or even 825.
Although I can see this general tendencies in myself. (especially if you go through entire trype profile that isn't focused on the order of numbers)
 

Korvinagor

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(to clarify, the irrational types are those whose dominant function is perception - Ni, Si, Ne, Se - so the IJ and EP types)

For me, my irrational nature comes through in my indecisiveness. While not a P type, I do tend towards leaving things to the last minute or trying to leave my options open, although sometimes I do have a more certain picture in mind.

And also the rules I make for myself are easily bent/broken. I'll decide "ok, I'm going to do things in this way" but then a time will come when I want to do things another way and I will easily break the rule I set, allowing myself plenty of "exceptions". Contrast this with say, INFP, who is going to have a much harder time breaking one of their principles.

So how do you see yourself, as an irrational type? Or, how do you see irrational types in general? What, to you, are the defining/notable features?

Also a note that there is material on irrational and rational types in Jung's Chapter X of Personality Types, if you want to do some reading on it.

What exactly does being an irrational type imply? Naturally, it wouldn't make sense to call IJs and EPs less capable of reason than other types...
 

Legion

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What exactly does being an irrational type imply? Naturally, it wouldn't make sense to call IJs and EPs less capable of reason than other types...

Those are the types that Jung termed the irrational types. It just implies having a perception function as the dominant function. They are "less capable of reason" in the sense that reason is an aspect of the Thinking and Feeling functions, rather than Intuition and Sensing.
 

Korvinagor

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Those are the types that Jung termed the irrational types. It just implies having a perception function as the dominant function. They are "less capable of reason" in the sense that reason is an aspect of the Thinking and Feeling functions, rather than Intuition and Sensing.

What is the I/S dichotomy responsible for?
 

Legion

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What is the I/S dichotomy responsible for?

The intuition/sensing dichotomy? That's if someone prefers to look at things in a big picture/abstract manner (N) or detailed/concrete manner (S).
 

Korvinagor

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Hm, well it's interesting that INTJs are part of this 'irrational' group, what with the 'rational mastermind' title they possess.
 

Legion

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Hm, well it's interesting that INTJs are part of this 'irrational' group, what with the 'rational mastermind' title they possess.

Yeah, the NTs have gotten the name "the rationals", I think from Kiersey. Originally the term was based on the nature of the dominant function. Presumably, it's two different uses of the term "rational".
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I leave a lot open-ended in my perception of reality. I may communicate more certitude than I actually have. I feel that the vastness of everything is so great that I can never perceive enough of reality to know anything for certain. My inner world is deeply agnostic.

The only thing I have certainty about is related to morality. Each living being is entitled to their own self, entitled to define their own self, they have a right to find a spot to sit and defend it, they have a right to be left alone. The inner personal boundary I respect at all costs and fight to defend it with too much gusto.

I also reject cruelty, although I realize that there is a continuum of harm and it is somewhat subjective based on cultural and individual perception. However, once again, if the individual rejects the pain inflicted on them, then I support that and equally reject it on their behalf.
 

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The most fruitless of men indeed.
 

Snickie

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What qualities of irrationals are we examining here?

Am I an irrational because I'm an IP type or am I a rational because I'm a Ji-dom?

Considering "rational" is sometimes defined as more conscious or active judging (as opposed to perception or automatic or passive processing), is it possible for someone to be a J-dom and have executive function issues that might lead to an irrational appearance or mistype?
If so, is this more common with inf Je (IP) or inf Ji (EJ)?

Are irrationals simply those who are not NT?
 

Forever

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What qualities of irrationals are we examining here?

Am I an irrational because I'm an IP type or am I a rational because I'm a Ji-dom?

Considering "rational" is sometimes defined as more conscious or active judging (as opposed to perception or automatic or passive processing), is it possible for someone to be a J-dom and have executive function issues that might lead to an irrational appearance or mistype?
If so, is this more common with inf Je (IP) or inf Ji (EJ)?

Are irrationals simply those who are not NT?

Irrational - N or S
Rational F or T

legion makes a hidden assumption that whatever dominant function you have is what he would label you as.

I am an irrational type according to him because I have Ni as dominant.

You are a rational type according to him.
 

Legion

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Irrational - N or S
Rational F or T

legion makes a hidden assumption that whatever dominant function you have is what he would label you as.

I am an irrational type according to him because I have Ni as dominant.

You are a rational type according to him.

Well, I'm assuming that, for example, the introverted intuition type in Jung corresponds to the Ni dominant type in MBTI. I certainly relate to Jung's description of the introverted irrational type.
 

Forever

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Well, I'm assuming that, for example, the introverted intuition type in Jung corresponds to the Ni dominant type in MBTI. I certainly relate to Jung's description of the introverted irrational type.

I have Psychological Types. Don't you worry I get you
 

Legion

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I've noticed that even the ENFJs in my family can be somewhat indecisive (but also quick in giving emotional social responses), and also have other P-like traits, so I'm thinking that this may be a family trait, and may link to Type B in the Type A vs Type B personality thing.

However, my tendency to be quite lackadaisical regarding upholding my principles is something I don't share with the ENFJs, who tend to live more through their moral/ethical code.
 

typologyenthusiast

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According to Jung, A psychological functions is called Rational when the functions subsumes to the law of reason. Jung believe that reasoning has law and the rational functions subsume to the law. The rational functions are the judging functions: Fi, Fe,Ti,Te works in accords with reason. When it is judged as not rational/reasonable for each rational functions, they will reject any judgement. But Kiersey differ himself with theory. He say "NT" is the rational types with his explanations. Kiersey means his rational type is any person under his "NT"personality type, which is different with Jung who say rational is a characteristics of cognitive judging function. It may be a little bit ambiguous when we assume what rational means here refer to the Kiersey "NT" type, instead of to four judging psychological functions: Fi,Fe,Ti,Te, following Jung.
 
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typologyenthusiast

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I have three of my families that I identify as ENTJ, ESFJ, and ISTP, following Myers, all of them has rational function at their primary function stack. That is, Te primary for ENTJ, Fe primary for ESFJ, Ti primary for ISTP. So I can tell the major differences between them. They express reason habitually. I notice that they frequently commit fallacies but they seem not to aware that their reasoning is fallacious. I often have to develop reasoning so that they understand. I notice that my father (ENTJ) reason is different with my mother (ESFJ) reason and different with my sister (ISTP) reason.

I notice that my sister reasoning often often comes from her individual guess, or even unverified factual information, or only an assumption that I often get upset with. I remind her that factual information received needs further verification to make sure that what is told by the mouth of the information teller is indeed in accordance with relevant facts before it is accepted as true information. But she tends to be careless of that. ISTP reason usually used only for justifying her action. ISTP sometimes seem like a "just do it person" who decides an action to be taken for herself without inquiring relevant information first. I remember that our parents just bought us a new printer. She easily told and did to use a non genuine ink for the printer. But I had info that I learnt from a ink distributor that non genuine ink tend to damage the printer faster, since the viscosity of the ink is different. Without having this info in mind, she decided to use the non genuine ink because of much cheaper price. The printer was soon broken.
My sister is an egotistical reasoner that begins her reasoning from what she assumes, and if incorrect, she says she thought that bla bla bla, asking for excuse.

One day she ate up all of the food on the table and when she was told that there was other who hadn't eaten yet, she replied that she thought all had finished dining. So she just ate up with an assumption that all had eaten ; not inquiring whether anybody had eaten, and made her decision of eating up on it.

I forgot the whole story that some time ago, She and Me has a conversation. She told me that she think with a guess, because ,,, bla bla bla ( I forgot), justifying herself based on a guess.
My mother often complain that what my sister said is perfunctory. My mother, father and sister often reason with If - then statement, while I realize I seldom reason with this. Much less frequent than they are.
My mother often raise question with a blaming intonation
Her reasoning recently expresses a disappointment, frustration, despair, envy .


All of those three tends to give instruction.
 
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