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Ayn Rand

What Personality Type is Ayn Rand?

  • Enneagram

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  • Total voters
    9

Burning Paradigm

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You could've lowered it down to any of the xxTJ types at most lol. Rand had almost zero Fe and was pretty Te heavy.

I say INTJ with very strong Te. She perceived the world and her philosophy with this abstract inner vision, this weird synthesis of weak and strong, one where the strong fueled the creative and productive engines of the world but were at the same time shackled by the weak. You could make a case for either Ni or Te here, but I see Ni > Te. While I think her fiction and philosophy (but I repeat myself) is lousy, personally, her writing seems very symbolism-heavy to me (e.g. Howard Roark as a vessel for her philosophy and vision of independent intelligence running the world in The Fountainhead). Her logic is subordinate to her vision rather than the other way around.
I go with 1w9 > 5w6 > 3w4 so/sp for her Enneagram.
 

yeghor

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You could've lowered it down to any of the xxTJ types at most lol. Rand had almost zero Fe and was pretty Te heavy.

I say INTJ with very strong Te. She perceived the world and her philosophy with this abstract inner vision, this weird synthesis of weak and strong, one where the strong fueled the creative engines of the world but were at the same time shackled by the weak. You could make a case for either Ni or Te here, but I see Ni > Te. While I think her fiction and philosophy (but I repeat myself) is lousy, personally, her writing seems very symbolism-heavy to me (e.g. Howard Roark as a vessel for her philosophy and vision of independent intelligence running the world in The Fountainhead). Her logic is subordinate to her vision rather than the other way around.
I go with 1w9 > 5w6 > 3w4 so/sp for her Enneagram.

Then why does she outright reject intuition and only upholds sensory knowledge?

In epistemology, she considered all knowledge to be based on sense perception, the validity of which she considered axiomatic, and reason, which she described as "the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses". She rejected all claims of non-perceptual or a priori knowledge, including "'instinct,' 'intuition,' 'revelation,' or any form of 'just knowing'". In her Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, Rand presented a theory of concept formation and rejected the analytic–synthetic dichotomy.

She is also clearly an individualist who is against government, usually placed by others close to right-wing libertarianism (individualism) on the political spectrum. Js are collectivist whereas Ps are libertarian.

In both cases, intuition and J-type does not make sense for her.
 

Burning Paradigm

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Then why does she outright reject intuition and only upholds sensory knowledge?

She is also clearly an individualist who is against government, usually placed by others close to right-wing libertarianism (individualism) on the political spectrum. Js are collectivist whereas Ps are libertarian.

In both cases, intuition and J-type does not make sense for her.

That is a very strong assumption there. Also, how does she "outright" reject intuition?
 

yeghor

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That is a very strong assumption there. Also, how does she "outright" reject intuition?

"She rejected all claims of non-perceptual or a priori knowledge, including "'instinct,' 'intuition,' 'revelation,' or any form of 'just knowing'"."

EDIT: Ps are spontaneous and do not like being regulated, Js are the opposite, they like structure and regulations. That translates as Ps being libertarians/individualists and Js being authoritarians/collectivisits.
 

Burning Paradigm

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"She rejected all claims of non-perceptual or a priori knowledge, including "'instinct,' 'intuition,' 'revelation,' or any form of 'just knowing'"."

EDIT: Ps are spontaneous and do not like being regulated, Js are the opposite, they like structure and regulations. That translates as Ps being libertarians/individualists and Js being authoritarians/collectivisits.

Vernacular "intuition" is different from Jungian intuition. This is obviously referring to intuition in the sense of just a gut feeling without taking in any information. That doesn't discount being a Jungian intuitive. Jungian intuition is more about pattern-seeking and synthesizing information in a big-picture, abstract sense. It is still contingent on how one takes in information.

Also, for someone who supposedly rejected non-perceptual knowledge, she was aggressively idealistic. Compare her to someone like Aristotle, who was more matter-of-fact and detached even when talking about things like poetry and rhetoric. This is Barbara Branden, her former acolyte: "[Her work] is both angry and exaltedly idealistic, a tortured hymn to integrity. In it one sees the union of attitudes so marked in Ayn: the union of passionate idealism with a profound scorn for those who are only idealists, who renounce the responsibility of translating their ideals into action and reality."
 

yeghor

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Vernacular "intuition" is different from Jungian intuition. This is obviously referring to intuition in the sense of just a gut feeling without taking in any information. That doesn't discount being a Jungian intuitive. Jungian intuition is more about pattern-seeking and synthesizing information in a big-picture, abstract sense. It is still contingent on how one takes in information.

Also, for someone who supposedly rejected non-perceptual knowledge, she was aggressively idealistic. Compare her to someone like Aristotle, who was more matter-of-fact and detached even when talking about things like poetry and rhetoric. This is Barbara Branden, her former acolyte: "[Her work] is both angry and exaltedly idealistic, a tortured hymn to integrity. In it one sees the union of attitudes so marked in Ayn: the union of passionate idealism with a profound scorn for those who are only idealists, who renounce the responsibility of translating their ideals into action and reality."

I cannot find where she referred to her views on intuition. However I think intuition is just intuition. I agree that intuition notices patterns in the external world, however another thing it does is that it extrapolates that pattern into "what ifs". It is akin to imagination and based on perceived patterns, it imagines a theory about something that is not readily available in the external world or evident to the senses, which still needs to be verified against external facts to check if the theory or assumption is true.

Still reading into her "Objectivism" philosophy but it sounds like she favored facts over imagined possibilities (intuition) and was a realist. That would suggest her thinking faculties trumped over her intuitive faculties. I do not think she is a sensor so, T>N with low S is only possible in ENTJ or INTP.

She is defined as an individualist and she is not a business tycoon or regulationist like an ENTJ, I would still go for INTP. Need to read more into her work though.



EDIT: I imagine intuition like this:

Imagine a large room where only a part in the centre is illuminated. We can only perceive what objects exist in illuminated area. That constitutes sensory information/knowledge available.

An intuitive person based on the patterns perceived can imagine/intuit what other objects there may be in the dark parts of the room and at what locations, and the important part is because it is in the dominant position, cannot let go of that intuition and feels compelled to go in the dark and check it for himself if the intuition is true. It is more like a conviction than a fact.

To sensors, that kind of a person will appear as a lunatic because he/she is seeing things that are not there. Thinking dominant types OTOH would still check if the intuition is logical before going in the dark, probably they would move more cautiously into the dark until a direct connection to the objects in the dark becomes available. So intuition is closer to metaphysics whereas thinking is to realism.

 

Siúil a Rúin

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I remember having a discussion with an INTP about Ayn Rand's premises - For example: A=A, that an object is what it is observed to be. We discussed the example of a tree, because in her view a tree is a concrete object with trunk, branches, leaves, etc. But that is only a tree viewed in one fragment of time. A tree is a process of birth, growth, and decay. It is every bit as much the dead rotting log as it is a seed in the earth, to the sapling, to the large tree, to the interconnectedness of all trees. Everything in existence is a process. Any existing observable, measurable object is simply a fragment of a process viewed in a moment of time. Everything concrete observed and measured in reality has changed to some degree once the observation is made. Everything is dynamic, in constant change, in motion, in process. I don't see a clear sense of this in her writing.

Her writings on art are quite perfunctory and valuing only representational art in a similar vein to the views of the totalitarian regimes of the time. Here is a quick quotes:

Ayn Rand's Theory of Art
Jillian Steinhauer writes:
Here are some things that Rand says are not art (from all artistic fields, not just visual):
Any and all abstract art
Photography
American Indian artifacts and other examples of “craft”
Anything by John Cage, who has “schizoid tendencies reflected in his work”
Anything by Merce Cunningham
The fiction of James Joyce, with its “elaborately contrived inaccessibility”
Anything by Samuel Beckett
“The inscrutable postmodernist ‘poetry’ of John Ashbery”

My impression is that her subtexted definition is art is: Human expressions that she can understand. Her entire philosophy has nothing to do with being objective. I think the accurate designation for her writings is "egoism".
 

yeghor

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I remember having a discussion with an INTP about Ayn Rand's premises - For example: A=A, that an object is what it is observed to be. We discussed the example of a tree, because in her view a tree is a concrete object with trunk, branches, leaves, etc. But that is only a tree viewed in one fragment of time. A tree is a process of birth, growth, and decay. It is every bit as much the dead rotting log as it is a seed in the earth, to the sapling, to the large tree, to the interconnectedness of all trees. Everything in existence is a process. Any existing observable, measurable object is simply a fragment of a process viewed in a moment of time. Everything concrete observed and measured in reality has changed to some degree once the observation is made. Everything is dynamic, in constant change, in motion, in process. I don't see a clear sense of this in her writing.

Her writings on art are quite perfunctory and valuing only representational art in a similar vein to the views of the totalitarian regimes of the time. Here is a quick quotes:

Ayn Rand's Theory of Art
Jillian Steinhauer writes:
Here are some things that Rand says are not art (from all artistic fields, not just visual):
Any and all abstract art
Photography
American Indian artifacts and other examples of “craft”
Anything by John Cage, who has “schizoid tendencies reflected in his work”
Anything by Merce Cunningham
The fiction of James Joyce, with its “elaborately contrived inaccessibility”
Anything by Samuel Beckett
“The inscrutable postmodernist ‘poetry’ of John Ashbery”

My impression is that her subtexted definition is art is: Human expressions that she can understand. Her entire philosophy has nothing to do with being objective. I think the accurate designation for her writings is "egoism".

I can see why you typed her as ESTJ as she seems to have a very concrete view of the world and very factual one. However several of her views does not match with ESTJs as given below (note: She was advocating egotism based on rationalism and individualism, and with voluntary cooperation between individuals without using force. In the text below she is identified with anarcho-capitalism, which would not not fit with any of the J types btw)



Her views on art below suggests she wanted art to match reality with some romanticization allowed. That sounds like she did not want reality to be distorted but sugarcoated just a bit. Sounds a bit like she was unappreciative of N. I would say ESTJ myself but still, that conflicts with her political views above.



The type of artists she did not like seem to be typed as INFPs or INTPs yet I am not sure.



Lastly she is likened to Nietzche sometimes. I did not like Thus spoke Zarathustra either, it felt like ramblings of a madmen. Don't know what to make of it and how it connects to Rand.
 

yeghor

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She did not consider emotion and non-sensory knowledge as proper sources of knowledge.

She wanted unregulated capitalism.

She wanted a minimalist state apparatus tasked with judicial and regulatory functions to settle disputes between entities.

She only believed in individuals' rights rather than rights of groups.

She believed every individual should prioritize their own well-being yet should not resort to force in the process and respect other individuals' rights.

This still sounds like IxTP to me. She comes across as more cerebral then action-oriented to me, so I would say INTP instead of ISTP.


Rand on Sources of Knowledge


Rand on Morality


Rand on Regulations

 

Lark

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She did not consider emotion and non-sensory knowledge as proper sources of knowledge.

She wanted unregulated capitalism.

She wanted a minimalist state apparatus tasked with judicial and regulatory functions to settle disputes between entities.

She only believed in individuals' rights rather than rights of groups.

She believed every individual should prioritize their own well-being yet should not resort to force in the process and respect other individuals' rights.

This still sounds like IxTP to me. She comes across as more cerebral then action-oriented to me, so I would say INTP instead of ISTP.


Rand on Sources of Knowledge


Rand on Morality


Rand on Regulations


Did she use the phrase "Would you Kindly..." much? :newwink:
 

yeghor

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Did she use the phrase "Would you Kindly..." much? :newwink:

So Frank Fontaine installs the trigger word in Jack's mind. Frank is a crime lord, ESTP maybe.

Andrew Ryan learns about it and make Jack kill him (Andrew). Andrew is an industrialst, ENTJ maybe.

So which one was inspired after Rand?
 

Lark

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So Frank Fontaine installs the trigger word in Jack's mind. Frank is a crime lord, ESTP maybe.

Andrew Ryan learns about it and make Jack kill him (Andrew). Andrew is an industrialst, ENTJ maybe.

So which one was inspired after Rand?

All of them, the whole project.
 

yeghor

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4. Criticisms of Rand’s Ethics

Rand, Ayn | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

From the broadly defined conservative right, the main criticisms are

(a) that Rand’s metaphysical naturalism involves an atheism that undercuts religious metaphysics,

(b) that her strong emphasis upon empirical data and reason undercut epistemologies based on faith and tradition, and

(c) that her normative individualism undercuts the commands of duty, obligation and selflessness that are necessary for achieving social values.


From the left, again defined broadly, the main criticisms are

(a) that Rand’s individualism atomistically isolates each of us from genuine society,

(b) that her advocacy of free markets enables strong-versus-weak exploitation, and in left-postmodern critique

(c) that her philosophical fundamentals commit her to an untenable foundationalism and absolutism.
 
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