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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

Falcarius

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[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

How do ESTJ survive lockdown since isn't it like living hell?:unsure:
 

EJCC

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[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

How do ESTJ survive lockdown since isn't it like living hell?:unsure:

- ROUTINE AND STRUCTURE! Love a good routine - stability and comfort and predictability.
- Creating a sense of normalcy in otherwise abnormal times.
- Living in the now and doing small exciting things that create meaning and fun.
- That Te-Ne lifestyle (big immersive projects, executed methodically)
- Self-care: eating enough, exercising, getting enough sleep.

I'm not saying I do all of these all the time, but they really really help - for me anyway.
 

EJCC

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Actual examples of these?

Again, some examples?
I mean, whatever works for you. I can only give examples of things that do that for me, I can't tell you what'll create meaning and fun in your life.

For me:

Small, exciting things that create meaning and fun: spontaneous gatherings with housemates
Immersive projects executed methodically: cleaning/organizing, 30-day workout challenges, guitar practice
 

Meowcat

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I mean, whatever works for you. I can only give examples of things that do that for me, I can't tell you what'll create meaning and fun in your life.

For me:

Small, exciting things that create meaning and fun: spontaneous gatherings with housemates
Immersive projects executed methodically: cleaning/organizing, 30-day workout challenges, guitar practice

Did you really expect that I wanted anyone to tell me what would create meaning and fun for ME?

How could you misunderstand my question so much? Who the fuck on earth would have such a stupid request that someone else tell them that ???? It's just annoying.

I only wanted to ask about what it is like for you - you did answer that tho' eventually
 

Cupcakemonster

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ESTJs seem to value "common sense" a lot. How would you define/describe common sense?

How often/willing are you to trying new things? For example, a friend asking you to try a new food with them that neither of you have ever eaten before?

Do you make a to-do list every day? Even for days off?

What is it about mbti that you like?

What types have you found are the hardest or easiest to live with like being roommates with?
 

Cupcakemonster

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[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] I'm really enjoying reading this thread! It's definitely interesting & informative. Just wanted to let you know that. I hope I don't ask you any questions that you've already been asked.

What have your experiences/interactions with ExFJ & ExTP types been like? Do you know many? Do you find a lot of communication difficulties?

If you go out to eat or to a coffee shop do you usually order the same thing or have a couple regular go to items? Rather than say try whatever new thing of the month that they're offering or making your way through the flavors/menu items to try something new each time? (Side note: can you tell I like food a lot? lol)

Are there any tv or movie characters that you really relate to & why or in what ways?
 

EJCC

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Did you really expect that I wanted anyone to tell me what would create meaning and fun for ME?

How could you misunderstand my question so much? Who the fuck on earth would have such a stupid request that someone else tell them that ???? It's just annoying.

I only wanted to ask about what it is like for you - you did answer that tho' eventually
The context of the question (Falcarius asking) seemed like it would need to be applicable more broadly than just for me. I was still in that headspace when I answered.

Would appreciate it if you didn't snap at me like that the next time we have a misunderstanding.
 
Last edited:

EJCC

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Also: [MENTION=40133]Cupcakemonster[/MENTION] I don't have time right now to answer your questions thoughtfully, but I will soon!
 

EJCC

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ESTJs seem to value "common sense" a lot. How would you define/describe common sense?
Hah - that's tough. Self-evident, intuitive truths?

How often/willing are you to trying new things? For example, a friend asking you to try a new food with them that neither of you have ever eaten before?
Depends on my mood. If I'm not in a good mood, I'd rather not take the risk of making my day worse. If I'm in a good mood, I'm much more willing to try something new.

Do you make a to-do list every day? Even for days off?
It may not always be written down, but I always have a plan.

If I don't have a clear and linear sense of what my plan is for the day - even if it's just "relax, do laundry, relax some more, TV in the evening" - something is very wrong.

What is it about mbti that you like?
I've gotten increasingly disillusioned with the MBTI over time, because the only parts of it that I find useful are parts that are NOT accessible to the general public, but I appreciate knowing that other people's decision-making processes are vastly different from mine, in clear ways that I can educate myself on, and adapt to.

What types have you found are the hardest or easiest to live with like being roommates with?
I'm actually a pretty relaxed roommate so long as my roommates respect my space and my boundaries (physical and emotional). Habitual boundary-violators and people who are not conscientious are the people I have the hardest time living with. That can be any number of types, although most recently it was an unhealthy ESFP.

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] I'm really enjoying reading this thread! It's definitely interesting & informative. Just wanted to let you know that. I hope I don't ask you any questions that you've already been asked.
Haha, this thread has gone on for so long that I honestly don't remember what people have asked me before. And at this point I'd probably answer differently than I did... ten years ago? (Christ.) So it's all good.

What have your experiences/interactions with ExFJ & ExTP types been like? Do you know many? Do you find a lot of communication difficulties?
I've had close friendships with those types, briefly. (It's also possible that one of my closest friends is actually an ENTP and not an ENFP, after years of self-typing as ENFP.) I tend to struggle with ENTPs when they are trolly - which is often, particularly when they're young. They don't understand why their debate style makes me angry, and I don't understand why they're so inclined to, I guess, cook and eat sacred cows for fun? And my experience with ExFJs is actually pretty great except when 1) the Fe manipulation happens, and/or 2) they read too much into my behavior even when I'm being incredibly direct.

If you go out to eat or to a coffee shop do you usually order the same thing or have a couple regular go to items? Rather than say try whatever new thing of the month that they're offering or making your way through the flavors/menu items to try something new each time? (Side note: can you tell I like food a lot? lol)
See my previous answer about trying new things.

Are there any tv or movie characters that you really relate to & why or in what ways?
Oh, plenty! My avatar (from Birds of Prey) is a great example - although an unusually extreme one, in that not only do I relate to her, but I look like her, sound like her, have the same mannerisms and a similar haircut, etc. MULTIPLE friends came up to me after watching it to say "you ARE her!"

Generally when I relate to characters, it's because I identify with their thought processes, neuroses, and how they relate to the people around them. Tragically, the characters I relate to most often are not nearly as funny as I am.
 

Stigmata

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Did you really expect that I wanted anyone to tell me what would create meaning and fun for ME?

How could you misunderstand my question so much? Who the fuck on earth would have such a stupid request that someone else tell them that ???? It's just annoying.

I only wanted to ask about what it is like for you - you did answer that tho' eventually

 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I've had close friendships with those types, briefly. (It's also possible that one of my closest friends is actually an ENTP and not an ENFP, after years of self-typing as ENFP.) I tend to struggle with ENTPs when they are trolly - which is often, particularly when they're young. They don't understand why their debate style makes me angry, and I don't understand why they're so inclined to, I guess, cook and eat sacred cows for fun?

I think this is an NTP thing, although the INTPs may mostly do this online. At any rate, as someone who may also be an ambiverted ENTP, I would like to weigh in this. I'll preface this by saying that there are times when I too find the behavior of going after sacred cows irritating, usually when they have nothing of value to replace it with.

I think there is usually more to it than just doing it for fun (although they may derive enjoyment from the process). Personally, when in my late adolescence, I started to feel betrayed by (earlier in life) trusting in ideas imposed on me by authority figures that my own experiences led me to question. If I found that the authority figures can't justify their ideas, that only makes the anger and sense of betrayal worse. Later, in early adulthood, this became a tendency to disparage or have no respect for ideas people believed without knowing why they believed them. I think there is a good chance a lot of NTPs go through something similar. This internal feeling might manifest in a desire to go after those ideas whenever they are expressed. I think the NTP will often feel that they are doing something good by trying to lead others away from falsehood.

As I got older, I found that this wasn't always a worthy enterprise to engage in, and even if it was, I've found that often a less confrontational approach is more likely to be effective.

Also, keep in mind that the "wrong Ideas" the NTP may have a distaste for do not necessarily need to be religion. In my particular case, religion was not a big part of that at all.
 

Cupcakemonster

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[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] appreciate the responses! Your comment about ENTPs made me laugh, because my uncle just commented to me today about how much I love debates, that he feels like I say certain things just to get people talking, & that I seem to play devil's advocate. Although, I believe that I'm probably more of an ESTP than an ENTP.

Wow, this thread really has to be one of the longest running threads on this site.
 

EJCC

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I think this is an NTP thing, although the INTPs may mostly do this online. At any rate, as someone who may also be an ambiverted ENTP, I would like to weigh in this. I'll preface this by saying that there are times when I too find the behavior of going after sacred cows irritating, usually when they have nothing of value to replace it with.

I think there is usually more to it than just doing it for fun (although they may derive enjoyment from the process). Personally, when in my late adolescence, I started to feel betrayed by (earlier in life) trusting in ideas imposed on me by authority figures that my own experiences led me to question. If I found that the authority figures can't justify their ideas, that only makes the anger and sense of betrayal worse. Later, in early adulthood, this became a tendency to disparage or have no respect for ideas people believed without knowing why they believed them. I think there is a good chance a lot of NTPs go through something similar. This internal feeling might manifest in a desire to go after those ideas whenever they are expressed. I think the NTP will often feel that they are doing something good by trying to lead others away from falsehood.

As I got older, I found that this wasn't always a worthy enterprise to engage in, and even if it was, I've found that often a less confrontational approach is more likely to be effective.

Also, keep in mind that the "wrong Ideas" the NTP may have a distaste for do not necessarily need to be religion. In my particular case, religion was not a big part of that at all.
Thanks for this - this meshes well with my impression, but is (obviously!) more charitably stated. Although, for reasons I'm about to get into, I'm not sure if confrontation is the issue, at least with ExTJs - we generally don't mind confrontation.

In general I think we're both articulating a Te vs. Ti problem - a lot of Te-users have similar experiences to what you described, where they question the general norm and build a new moral code for themselves to follow, but the way we express that new worldview is, well, very concise and narrow and linear. I think ExTJs may misunderstand the expansiveness and devil's-advocating of Ti in this context. In general it seems like a major Fe/Ti vs Fi/Te communication breakdown can be Fi/Te misinterpreting Fe/Ti as "playing games" or "manipulating" when it's just another form of communication other than "X, therefore Y, therefore Z."

Many experiences I had in my early twenties with ENTPs my age had me wondering things like "if he feels this way about it, why won't he own up to it?" or "I'd respect this person more if he stopped playing games and just told me where he stood on the issues he picks fights about."
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Thanks for this - this meshes well with my impression, but is (obviously!) more charitably stated. Although, for reasons I'm about to get into, I'm not sure if confrontation is the issue, at least with ExTJs - we generally don't mind confrontation.

In general I think we're both articulating a Te vs. Ti problem - a lot of Te-users have similar experiences to what you described, where they question the general norm and build a new moral code for themselves to follow, but the way we express that new worldview is, well, very concise and narrow and linear. I think ExTJs may misunderstand the expansiveness and devil's-advocating of Ti in this context. In general it seems like a major Fe/Ti vs Fi/Te communication breakdown can be Fi/Te misinterpreting Fe/Ti as "playing games" or "manipulating" when it's just another form of communication other than "X, therefore Y, therefore Z."

Many experiences I had in my early twenties with ENTPs my age had me wondering things like "if he feels this way about it, why won't he own up to it?" or "I'd respect this person more if he stopped playing games and just told me where he stood on the issues he picks fights about."

Sometimes that's because the goal isn't to express what we think. It's to see what the other person's reasons our, and if there's something there that could change our minds. Granted, i"ve found better ways of doing that than outright obvious debating. One thing I've learned how to do is state where I am at the moment I make that post, and then state where I take issue, and then ask questions to find out if there's any way I've been missing. Sharing something first establishes trust which helps prevent knee jerk reactions. Granted, this requires a certain vulnerability on my part as well, which meant I had to be at a certain place to even attempt this. This is probably why younger NTPs might engage in things in a more obtuse way; I suspect it's a form of self-protection. I would guess that in many cases they feel reluctant to put themselves out there and say what they actually think at that moment.
 

EJCC

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Sometimes that's because the goal isn't to express what we think. It's to see what the other person's reasons our, and if there's something there that could change our minds. Granted, i"ve found better ways of doing that than outright obvious debating. One thing I've learned how to do is state where I am at the moment I make that post, and then state where I take issue, and then ask questions to find out if there's any way I've been missing. Sharing something first establishes trust which helps prevent knee jerk reactions. Granted, this requires a certain vulnerability on my part as well, which meant I had to be at a certain place to even attempt this. This is probably why younger NTPs might engage in things in a more obtuse way; I suspect it's a form of self-protection. I would guess that in many cases they feel reluctant to put themselves out there and say what they actually think at that moment.
Oh this is interesting! Wouldn't have even occurred to me to think of that as vulnerability tbh. Very helpful.
 

Meowcat

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The context of the question (Falcarius asking) seemed like it would need to be applicable more broadly than just for me. I was still in that headspace when I answered.

Would appreciate it if you didn't snap at me like that the next time we have a misunderstanding.

OK I saw only today that I got responses (bc I got one in another thread).

It was more broad about ESTJs, with you as a specific ESTJ example. So since it was about what ESTJs are like, that clearly has nothing to do with anyone wanting to be told about things that no one should be told about and where no one should ever be as crazy as to ask others for the answer on them.

So yeah, I would appreciate it if you did not assume such crazy things. That's not just a misunderstanding, that's simply too crazy to even assume. Then I won't snap, as simple as that.

Feel free to dislike me over this tho'. Have a good day.


- - - Updated - - -


Do not chime in about things that are not your business.
 

Captain_Invincible

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[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] I think I might be too organised and judgemental to be an ESTP. Does it mean I'm grumpy or a judger?
 

EJCC

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[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] I think I might be too organised and judgemental to be an ESTP. Does it mean I'm grumpy or a judger?
Could mean you've learned some good organizational strategies over time? Could also mean you're an ESTJ. If I were you I'd look into whether I relate more to the ESTP function stack or ESTJ function stack. Part of how I know I'm an ESTJ and not some other type is relating STRONGLY to dominant extroverted thinking (Te).
 
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