• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
Yes it did.

Well, processing information and sorting through it can be mentally draining after a while, so I suppose that's the reason.

Makes sense. :)

I would say in general yes logic needs space to do processing, this should be universal, fitting everyone, but I'm not INFP, take that into account. That is, to me it's not mentally draining to sort through logical analysis, it's my normal. But having any kind of internal emotion with it - that doesn't leave within like, three seconds - completely fucks up that process for me, like I lose all focus and I feel like the emotion is blocking everything and the emotion itself is stuck and trapped too. I experienced that under enough (extreme) stress and that's how I know it's not normal for me. I like to be able to keep them moving by turning them into action. And that way I can remain emotionally neutral inside and not focus on emotions at all in a conscious way. To others it apparently comes off as actively cold. It's a complicated topic overall though ... But my point is, my normal is the internal emotions/feelings - when I do have them - stay for 1-3 seconds and then they need to move out of the way. Either by taking action and live the emotion through action (desirable emotions, incl anger even), or by logical analysis to break it down and find solutions (negative or otherwise undesirable emotions). Or I push them aside if need be. Under extreme stress I couldn't push them aside anymore though.
 

Queen Parrot

Wandering & Wondering
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
79
MBTI Type
INFP
Ah wow. .... If only I had known this earlier. I was already observing and figuring this out for myself but this here was put VERY CLEARLY. Thanks.

So yes, a spark of positive emotion, that definitely helps your brain focus on constructive and positive facts getting you closer to a solution. Negative emotions slow your brain down, this can be useful too, but depending on what negative emotion it is, it can be too much. Basically negative emotions/moods are good for detailed analysis, which can be good useful really, but if you buy into negative thoughts associated with the negative feelings, it will turn into ruminating. Positive emotions though not only help you find positive facts to find a constructive direction for the solution, but they will also help your brain think faster, seeing more options and handling them more quickly etc.

My further thoughts - if you can find positive thinking and beliefs on your own that make sense enough, your feelings/mood will turn positive too. That helps with self-regulating without needing it from others.

And I said "if only" because an important relationship of mine died over this. (Not just this but hell...)

Basically... we both were getting into a bad place. That meant I had lower, way lower tolerance for taking in the negative emotions expressed when this person would vent or complain to me. And they would vent and complain more often and offload negative emotions more on me. The way I work is, my only one way to really deal with serious negativity is focus on finding a solution. Then the problem is, if I care about the person, I will be receptive to their emotions and taking in the negative too, yes. This all would result in me compulsively suggesting solutions. Getting really detailed in analysis to find them for this person. They did work sometimes though yeah. But I just kept feeding the fish to them instead of teaching them to find the fish themselves or tell them to go and learn to do so. And then ... eventually their problems grew so big they were unable to even nurture the relationship even in the completely basic minimal way for me to be able to keep my own negativity at bay by trying to find solutions. My own negativity was getting too strong about the relationship itself, does she even care about me?? Besides being so concerned about her problems working out. Add the two together and boom. ... I got overemotional myself as a result and offloaded on her (I never do this by default) and she didn't respond well at all nah...... Then the relationship never recovered.

Please note: I wasn't angry or judgmental or any of that at her. I was never judgmental at her. Never. When I say I offloaded emotions I meant negative emotions like worry, guilt, etc, nothing like being angry or raging. She was the one who did the anger, not me. And she would be cold and dismissive. Like we suddenly switched roles or something but taking on each other's negative qualities only (bad Thinking, bad Feeling). My emotional expression was too intense and raw probably, I didn't express like she would usually express her own. Not as refined. That didn't help. But that's how I am, I just don't look at the emotions by default or show them like that.

... Before all that, I used to just be able to tune in when she vented/complained and feel with her, express my empathy, mirroring her naturally and all that. Because the life situation for either of us wasn't as bad yet. So I could do that, and she would I guess deal with her stuff afterwards or I would suggest a solution if she asked afterwards etc etc. When the problems started, I was still able to tune in with a delay... I'd first suggest a solution but then I would emotionally mirror too with a delay. I just vividly remember one such situation, where I felt her negativity consciously enough, it pulled me down too by getting concerned, worried, and it all was just really unpleasant, and then I was really tense about her finding a solution (it was an important issue tbh), I suggested some, pushed her to go and do it, then I was able to do the mirroring / emotional communication a little. With that delay. Later I couldn't at all anymore. ... This memory is so vivid because I got conscious of the negative emotion I was taking in. Usually I would not focus on it, and just focus on the goddamn solution finding consciously. And have a guess why I do that. Because I do not have capacity to deal with my emotions/feelings directly all that much let alone sink in them for long. Same for negative emotions of others. So I'll just focus on the logical analysis because I have way better tolerance to do that cognitively. Thinker shit you see.

One more note, apologies I'm not going to organise this post better now, got to go soon, where I mentioned her failing to nurture the relationship. These more feely types will respond to bad enough stress by becoming self-absorbed (no offense), sinking in their own negative emotions, failing to nurture the relationships they got. So that was the other side of all of it.

So yeah thinker-feeler shit


PS: You would have to spell it out really really clearly to your ESTP dad as to what you need, i.e. you need emotional support and how it needs done. I'm sorry, it will not work out in any other way. He's not gonna mind-read you. The good news: he should be able to learn to read your body language over time so then he won't need you to tell him always what it is you need at a given moment. But initial assertive communication is absolutely needed about this. Don't care if it feels mechanical or unnatural or awkward or any of that. That's temporary. And don't be afraid to be direct, you are not gonna offend an ESTP lol

Thanks for the advice on communicating with ESTPs!
My brother is also ESTP but he seems more open to listening, well ah, whatever.

Yes I think that's a flaw with me I just think people can mind read me because sometimes I can mind read others well... Sometimes... I only think the INFJs are the king's of mind reading though. XD

About your relationship with your friend or girlfriend? Sorry haha, no I didn't think you were being judgemental at all, you just wanted to help.

I can see how it would have gotten hectic though. Hmm, maybe not so much these days, but more when I was younger; whenever I got lectures it would put me in an even more foul mood because I felt like I was being criticized or something.

Sometimes I may still feel this way, but I need to consciously remember that they're only trying to help.
I guess it's just about growing and understanding. I still need to learn not to take things so personally on my part.

I've gotten better at it, but it's taken time.

I have to say MBTI has really helped me in my relations, even if it is not real science. It's helped me understand the thought process of others, which is great.


Also, I can understand with you getting overwhelmed, I suppose it's a bad trait of us feelers we need to offload the feelings somewhere, and usually it's to other people, usually someone we trust... I've also been on the receiving end of offloads, it is very exhausting to process it all after a while. Emotional burnout. If I feel that way as a feeler, then l imagine the bar would be a lot lower for a thinker!
I'm so sorry to hear.

Stress takes toll on minds doesn't it...


Well, my phone needs to go on charge, and, I need to help my dad with gardening. I wanted to write more helpful things, but that was all I could dig out of my brain right now.

Well, I hope you're well, stay safe during these times.

Talk soon. :bye:
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
Thanks for the advice on communicating with ESTPs!
My brother is also ESTP but he seems more open to listening, well ah, whatever.

Np. Your dad is probably just more out of touch with emotions and relationships. You know alot of dads are. Pointless to get angry at him for that or blame him or any of that. Not that I'm saying you were doing any of that.


Yes I think that's a flaw with me I just think people can mind read me because sometimes I can mind read others well... Sometimes... I only think the INFJs are the king's of mind reading though. XD

Ha lol, the point really is that not everyone has those skills lol, Thinker types don't really.


About your relationship with your friend or girlfriend? Sorry haha, no I didn't think you were being judgemental at all, you just wanted to help.

I just wanted to be clear on it yeah, as to what my attitude was with my friend


I can see how it would have gotten hectic though. Hmm, maybe not so much these days, but more when I was younger; whenever I got lectures it would put me in an even more foul mood because I felt like I was being criticized or something.

Sometimes I may still feel this way, but I need to consciously remember that they're only trying to help.
I guess it's just about growing and understanding. I still need to learn not to take things so personally on my part.

I've gotten better at it, but it's taken time.

I have to say MBTI has really helped me in my relations, even if it is not real science. It's helped me understand the thought process of others, which is great.

That's cool. Yeah it helps with a start to understanding differences between people, tho MBTI doesn't get into that too deep overall. It's still something though.

I didn't really give her lectures, though she may have felt that way, I did notice sometimes she wanted to avoid corrections etc. But overall our relations were OK until that kind of shit happened


Also, I can understand with you getting overwhelmed, I suppose it's a bad trait of us feelers we need to offload the feelings somewhere, and usually it's to other people, usually someone we trust... I've also been on the receiving end of offloads, it is very exhausting to process it all after a while. Emotional burnout. If I feel that way as a feeler, then l imagine the bar would be a lot lower for a thinker!
I'm so sorry to hear.

Stress takes toll on minds doesn't it...

I don't mind really when someone vents / complains to me when I care about them, I avoid emotional burnout by using all that logical analysis and problem solving, as a Thinker type.

The bar is only so very low if I cannot use the problem solving approach and am taking in the negative emotion *directly*. But in normal situations I can do the problem solving and if overall there's enough positivity in life, and in the relationship, in the other person and in myself, I can take in a bit more negative emotion directly. Because the positive emotional "bank" helps keep some balance emotionally.

As a Thinker, the difference from Feelers really is just that I do not stay with the feelz for longer than a couple seconds before I turn to action or to logical analysis. So I have those parts of my brain more developed, and feelz are not that developed but they do exist for me too like for any normal human being. They may be *simpler* emotions and feelings than a Feeler's feelz, but they do exist, when I do not focus on them, they still remain there, in the background (not conscious) and keep giving motivation. Make sense?

And yeah about stress ...


Well, my phone needs to go on charge, and, I need to help my dad with gardening. I wanted to write more helpful things, but that was all I could dig out of my brain right now.

Well, I hope you're well, stay safe during these times.

Talk soon. :bye:

Thanks. That situation happened about 1.5 years ago


I wanted to clarify: "To others it apparently comes off as actively cold." ---> If I'm really pushing emotion out of the way Iguess. Bc otherwise it can just come off as emotionally neutral and not so actively cold. But I still think if a feeler's "soul" was suddenly put into my brain at that point, when I turn from the feelz to the logical analysis, it would feel very cold to them. They would be missing their feelz to savour or whatever they do with them, lol. But to me it just feels emotionally neutral simply because there's no conscious emotion going on ... I read once that that feeling of "cold" is also an emotional state though. Maybe to allow space for the logic. Without any bias, allowing impartial, emotionally neutral analysis. Where I may not feel the feeling of "cold" but a Feeler would feel it. To me it's as unconscious an emotional state as the other ones so I just "feel" emotionally neutral.
 

Sabbathhhank

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Messages
455
MBTI Type
IXFX
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think because I have a three wing I have trouble being certain who is an ESXJ or not, and also I strangely some similarity. I feel like it’s a lot of suspected ESJs, I’m always getting stuck in a boxing ring and having to go a round with them, it’s just frustrating. Biggest obstacle on the field quite often it seems like though I’m not certain, not always probably. You seem like a nice SJ I might potentially lly get along with. It’s just irksome as a non-submissive person to be expected to cowtoe all the time, I’m not sure what that is on account of, when everything is like this weird stand off for dominion.

I guess the time I’m looking for is adversarial? The sensation is one of being very adversarial always.
 

Sabbathhhank

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 15, 2020
Messages
455
MBTI Type
IXFX
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Think of what you know of dominant and auxiliary Fi -- its complexity, nuance, values-orientation, need for internal coherence in those values, strong feelings projected onto others (e.g. compassion, empathy). Similar to the Ti need for near-mathematical "elegance" -- i always hear that word from INTPs! -- except with feelings. Now, imagine that all those feelings, and the subsequent need to immerse yourself in them in order to observe them and find that coherence, and put all that in the mind of someone who only ever disregards feelings. Someone who sees feelings as a hostile force to be avoided. It's disorienting and surrounds you in feelingsy mental chaos. At best, it feels like losing everything that made you strong, and becoming weak. At worst, it feels like going insane -- losing control and losing your grip on reality.
In my experience were just hardwired to be emotional creatures and beings. It’s supposedly our limbic system that is the most associated with our emotions and it goes along that supposedly if you don’t adequately manage and express your emotional reactions and responses then it causes all kinds of other mental and physical disturbances. Why else does grief for loved one cause so many physical effects and symptoms as well?

I guess emotions and feelings coincide directly with spirituality in some manner, since in a way they really don’t make sense that easily. I guess you can spend all your time perfectly analyzing systems or theories but in the end what good does it do if it’s not...somehow emotional related?

But I guess enjoying your senses can be really fulfilling and enjoyable, it’s just often forget that and instead envision the really gluttonous and hedonistic kind instead.
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
Think of what you know of dominant and auxiliary Fi -- its complexity, nuance, values-orientation, need for internal coherence in those values, strong feelings projected onto others (e.g. compassion, empathy). Similar to the Ti need for near-mathematical "elegance" -- i always hear that word from INTPs! -- except with feelings. Now, imagine that all those feelings, and the subsequent need to immerse yourself in them in order to observe them and find that coherence, and put all that in the mind of someone who only ever disregards feelings. Someone who sees feelings as a hostile force to be avoided. It's disorienting and surrounds you in feelingsy mental chaos. At best, it feels like losing everything that made you strong, and becoming weak. At worst, it feels like going insane -- losing control and losing your grip on reality.

I too am going to quote you on this one, lol. But yeah, hmm, do you mind sharing some specific example of what it is like losing control like that. Why do you call it a "feelingsy mental chaos"? Not just feelings but other mental stuff too? Ne?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,130
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Hah, been a while since I've been in here.

Are you able to genuinely change?
100%. Everyone can change.

I too am going to quote you on this one, lol. But yeah, hmm, do you mind sharing some specific example of what it is like losing control like that. Why do you call it a "feelingsy mental chaos"? Not just feelings but other mental stuff too? Ne?
Sure, yeah, I think Ne is probably involved - but not the good kind of Ne, the kind of Ne that is too stream-of-consciousness to make sense. A better way to sum it up would be: disorder where there should have been order, chaos where there should have been stability, noise where there should have been quiet.

I don't know how different it would be for ENTJs with tertiary Se, but with ESTJs we go to Ne when there isn't any precedent to go on - so our points of stress are often directly related to feeling unmoored or without guidance. The emotional component feels similarly unmoored - we're used to Te certainty. Feels awful to be without it when you're used to having that security blanket.
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
Hah, been a while since I've been in here.


100%. Everyone can change.


Sure, yeah, I think Ne is probably involved - but not the good kind of Ne, the kind of Ne that is too stream-of-consciousness to make sense. A better way to sum it up would be: disorder where there should have been order, chaos where there should have been stability, noise where there should have been quiet.

I don't know how different it would be for ENTJs with tertiary Se, but with ESTJs we go to Ne when there isn't any precedent to go on - so our points of stress are often directly related to feeling unmoored or without guidance. The emotional component feels similarly unmoored - we're used to Te certainty. Feels awful to be without it when you're used to having that security blanket.

Thanks.

Would you be up for answering my earlier post too? This:

"Do you ever like to feel warm or just feely inside? Or do you always like to be neutral and "cold" inside? I read ESTJs have discomfort with emotion, what is that like, any more details on this? Is it easier for you to look warm outwardly or easier to feel warm inwardly? Which one do you prefer/have more tolerance about? And how about strong emotions, inwardly vs outwardly?

I just really have very little tolerance about being filled up with feelings or emotions internally. I don't mind emotions, they can be good even, as long as they can pass fast or converted into action, and then it can be even good, enjoyable. But they must go away, removed, or be released somehow FAST. I don't have tolerance about being/staying filled with feelings/emotions internally. I want to always be neutral/"cold" inside and have emotions only for these very short times inside."
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,130
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Thanks.

Would you be up for answering my earlier post too? This:

"Do you ever like to feel warm or just feely inside? Or do you always like to be neutral and "cold" inside? I read ESTJs have discomfort with emotion, what is that like, any more details on this? Is it easier for you to look warm outwardly or easier to feel warm inwardly? Which one do you prefer/have more tolerance about? And how about strong emotions, inwardly vs outwardly?

I just really have very little tolerance about being filled up with feelings or emotions internally. I don't mind emotions, they can be good even, as long as they can pass fast or converted into action, and then it can be even good, enjoyable. But they must go away, removed, or be released somehow FAST. I don't have tolerance about being/staying filled with feelings/emotions internally. I want to always be neutral/"cold" inside and have emotions only for these very short times inside."
I like warm and positive feelings! I don't like showing them too much - it's embarrassing. But I like feeling them.
 

John Catstentine

Hellblazer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
18,416
Are you as dissapointed that I am that Supernatural will not be the first infinitly running series. I was really looking forward to Dean being like Bobby Singer to a new generation of hunters. Castiel would have been his Rufus.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,130
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Are you as dissapointed that I am that Supernatural will not be the first infinitly running series. I was really looking forward to Dean being like Bobby Singer to a new generation of hunters. Castiel would have been his Rufus.
I feel very strongly that Supernatural should have ended after season 5 - and I tried to get back into Supernatural for the final season and just couldn't do it. I don't like the new characters!

I was about to link you to the Wayward Sisters spinoff to see if that would make you feel better, but then learned that it's not happening. :(
 

John Catstentine

Hellblazer
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
18,416
I feel very strongly that Supernatural should have ended after season 5 - and I tried to get back into Supernatural for the final season and just couldn't do it. I don't like the new characters!

I was about to link you to the Wayward Sisters spinoff to see if that would make you feel better, but then learned that it's not happening. :(

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:cry:
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
I like warm and positive feelings! I don't like showing them too much - it's embarrassing. But I like feeling them.

Ah OK then we are like we work the complete opposite way. Hm idk what that means for type for me ...

I mean I don't mind that stuff for 2 seconds before it gotta pass or turned into action so I'll enjoy the action instead (focusing outside).

Idk, does that say anything to you about type?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,130
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Ah OK then we are like we work the complete opposite way. Hm idk what that means for type for me ...

I mean I don't mind that stuff for 2 seconds before it gotta pass or turned into action so I'll enjoy the action instead (focusing outside).

Idk, does that say anything to you about type?
I don't think so - not on its own, without a whole lot more data. (My typing advice is always the same: read about the functions, read type descriptions, and read about inferior "shadow mode" under stress, and the rest isn't that important.)
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
I don't think so - not on its own, without a whole lot more data. (My typing advice is always the same: read about the functions, read type descriptions, and read about inferior "shadow mode" under stress, and the rest isn't that important.)

OK, I was asking because I was curious if you link it to type at all.

Do you have a favourite or otherwise sensible description about Fi inferior? That you find fitting for yourself as an ESTJ.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,130
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
How much outdoor gear, that you use regularly, is too much?
If you use it regularly, then you have enough, imo.

OK, I was asking because I was curious if you link it to type at all.

Do you have a favourite or otherwise sensible description about Fi inferior? That you find fitting for yourself as an ESTJ.
I resonate with basically all descriptions of it. (Sorry to not be more specific.)
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,130
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What's your zombie plan?
I don't really have one, lol, other than 1. get somewhere safe because I'm not good at fighting, and 2. make sure my people are safe and secure.

I'm much better at the doomsday-prepper kind of survival* than I am at the "what if hordes of undead are actively trying to break into my home and eat me" kind of survival. I don't suspect very many people are truly prepared for the latter, unless they're, like, far right militant types.

*I basically already had a month's worth of food and supplies set aside before quarantine started. Aside from a $30 CVS run and a $40 grocery run, I didn't need to buy a single thing to prepare for the first month I was at home - not shampoo, not toilet paper, nothing.
 
Top