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Any personal strategies for dealing with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

ygolo

My termites win
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https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/bertrand_russell_101364
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.

Bertrand Russell
512px-Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_Effect_01.svg.png

You can also find the midwit meme template for making various versions of this meme:
581ije.jpg


  1. So do you have any personal strategies to escape the valley if despair, and get over being a midwit? Do you just do what a dumber you would do? I have been confidently stubborn and wrong plenty of times using that strategy myself.
  2. How do you deal with people who have no idea what they are talking about trying to force opinions on you?
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I always assume I know less about something than I think I do and keep my mouth shut accordingly. Since I really don't know much. No one likes mansplainers.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Why don't we have any womansplainers?
Because gendered synonyms of already existing and useful words and terms describing human actions that are independent of sex and gender are fucking retarded.

except we just let mansplaining slide into the lexicon. Don’t ask me to mansplain it…
 

yeghor

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Because gendered synonyms of already existing and useful words and terms describing human actions that are independent of sex and gender are fucking retarded.

except we just let mansplaining slide into the lexicon. Don’t ask me to mansplain it…
I'll simply keep referring to them as feminists then. :LOL:
 

Luminous

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How do you deal with people who have no idea what they are talking about trying to force opinions on you?
This is a setup, right? Where's the camera? ;)

Seriously, I try generally not to engage in pointless arguing. I've spent enough time in my life engaging in (what I thought at the time was debate that might change someone's mind) pointless discussion that only serves to frustrate and annoy. I'm not always successful, but I try.

As for the first question, I dunno. I can say that I try to realize I don't know perhaps as much as I think, and to some extent, I do that by declining to give opinions on things I don't know enough about and having a willingness to consider I'm wrong, but I probably don't do as good a job as I'd like.
 
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MPP

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Simply keep your mind open and your ego in check. Always be open to learning. So, even if you do over-estimate your knowledge on something, you are willing to admit, accept and learn.
 

Pionart

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The point about ego is good.

But my ego is tiny and I'm a superhuman genius (I know it).
 

ygolo

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This is a setup, right? Where's the camera? ;)

Seriously, I try generally not to engage in pointless arguing. I've spent enough time in my life engaging in (what I thought at the time was debate that might change someone's mind) pointless discussion that only serves to frustrate and annoy. I'm not always successful, but I try.

Sorry. I know it is controversial question, but a genuine one. I also know when I am working things out, I can say thing that make it seem like I am dismissing ideas. But I am not, I appreciate the input, truly.

My mind is looking for a systematic solution (a system of principles to apply in a situation, in my case) and I just cannot see how the ideas work. Please do not take this personally. Principles are hard to come by.

As for the first question, I dunno. I can say that I try to realize I don't know perhaps as much as I think, and to some extent, I do that by declining to give opinions on things I don't know enough about and having a willingness to consider I'm wrong, but I probably don't do as good a job as I'd like.

Simply keep your mind open and your ego in check. Always be open to learning. So, even if you do over-estimate your knowledge on something, you are willing to admit, accept and learn.

These (and others in the thread sysing the say thing) comprise general good systematic policies. I believe they are good at avoiding being on "mount stupid" (on the diagram). So an essential aspect of a good policy.

I work in an industry where it's essential. There is kind of a sweet spot. This is work, and I know personal relationships have a different optimum. Here is Amazon's relevant leadership principle(in the framework of an interview), but it is something similar everywhere, at least in tech, but probably everywhere.

To do about a mistake:
1) Admit 2) quantify 3) fix 4) learn 5) make use of learning elsewhere

Not to do about a mistake:
1) Being too hard on yourself 2) Ignoring mistakes 3) Minimizing mistakes

Generally, interview scenarios are sanitized heavily. I didn't really want to bring work principles (especially since tech is so disliked these days), but they are habitual for me since most of us actually spend more time at work than family (at least pre-pandemic).

What would be another set of policies to push ourselves out of the "valley of despair", where your confidence is low, but the things others are saying confidently are things already very well-considered by you.

Again, I am thinking of work interview situation as sanitized (ultimately cherry-picked and theoretical). In most work situations, people do disagree and commit, but in personal ones, that doesn't really happen on the heaviest of subjects (having kids, buying houses, etc.)


Again, this ("have backbone") is what I had in mind, but more powerful and real--not corporate policy-speak.
 

Luminous

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Sorry. I know it is controversial question, but a genuine one. I also know when I am working things out, I can say thing that make it seem like I am dismissing ideas. But I am not, I appreciate the input, truly.

My mind is looking for a systematic solution (a system of principles to apply in a situation, in my case) and I just cannot see how the ideas work. Please do not take this personally. Principles are hard to come by.
I'm sorry; there was a misunderstanding. I didn't think you were being dismissive or insulting in any way. I appreciate that you're creating thoughtful threads to promote meaningful discussion. :)
 

Pionart

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A similar thing happens with psychiatry.

Psychiatrists are taught to label anything they don't understand as psychotic delusion, so if you talk in high level concepts you can end up in some serious shit.

Hubris! Losers! Choose this! Booze fits! Cruise hits! Rude flip!

Stupid foolish cruel bitch crew witch...
 

EcK

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You can also find the midwit meme template for making various versions of this meme:
581ije.jpg


  1. So do you have any personal strategies to escape the valley if despair, and get over being a midwit? Do you just do what a dumber you would do? I have been confidently stubborn and wrong plenty of times using that strategy myself.
  2. How do you deal with people who have no idea what they are talking about trying to force opinions on you?
I believe midwit is more in the 110-120 iq range, ie, smarter than average but never able to reach any truly original insights about anything. Most 'intellectuals', professors and a majority of 'smart' non-stem college graduates fit into that category. I find merely 'average' people are easier to deal with overall - not dissing them in the least. Just the Ne'er-do-well are both convinced that they - relatively speaking - idiotic arguments and simplistic ideologies are correct and deathly envious of people more capable than themselves - which usually turns into a sort of stubborn hatred that gets tiring pretty quickly.

Furthermore the general population usually has a hard time to judge of someone's intelligence and will tend to call the midwits the smart ones merely because their intellect and reasoning is within their grasp, while they won't understand the intuitive leaps of someone who is 3 standard deviation of IQ above them. This further increases the midwits' mistaken assumption that he or she is indeed super smert and makes them only more tiring to debate with. As long as they stick to misspelling my name at Starbucks it's fine though.

None of the above applies to regular folks who don't have illusions of brainpower and just live their lives. Just referring to the actually 'mid wit' meme which mostly describes mid wit debating style and stupid opinions.
 
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EcK

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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.

Bertrand Russell
And if the intelligent know they are - they get called stupid/arrogant etc. by envious midwits - yep, catch 22.

But yes, of course, continuous learning implies a degree of humility and no matter how natively smart you are if you stop taking in new information you end up an idiot. Though you can apply differential humility just for the fun of pissing Dunning Krugger sufferers off. It does require regular self-checks to make sure you are not part of the aforementioned group though. Keeps it entertaining.
 
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yeghor

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And if the intelligent know they are - they get called stupid/arrogant etc. by envious midwits - yep, catch 22.

But yes, of course, continuous learning implies a degree of humility and no matter how natively smart you are if you stop taking in new information you end up an idiot. Though you can apply differential humility just for the fun of pissing Dunning Krugger sufferers off. It does require regular self-checks to make sure you are not part of the aforementioned group though. Keeps it entertaining.

I sometimes notice some people on twitter calling others plebs or similar in their tweets advising not being a part of the herd, and it immediately signals to me that they are probably indeed intelligent but lack the humility, which cause them to become egotistical and condescending towards others that they consider plebs/herds.
 
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EcK

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I sometimes notice some people on twitter calling others plebs or similar in their tweets advising not being a part of the herd, and it immediately signals to me that they are probably indeed intelligent but lack the humility, which cause them to become egotistical and condescending towards others that they consider plebs/herds.
Twitter is toxic AF. I use it as occasional news source but refrain from interacting.
 

EcK

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This is a setup, right? Where's the camera? ;)

Seriously, I try generally not to engage in pointless arguing. I've spent enough time in my life engaging in (what I thought at the time was debate that might change someone's mind) pointless discussion that only serves to frustrate and annoy. I'm not always successful, but I try.

As for the first question, I dunno. I can say that I try to realize I don't know perhaps as much as I think, and to some extent, I do that by declining to give opinions on things I don't know enough about and having a willingness to consider I'm wrong, but I probably don't do as good a job as I'd like.
/thread
 
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