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Come ye, come ye...

Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,659
:peepwall:

I never thought I would ever see myself doing this again in a million years, but since I just wasted a huge chunk of my life filling this out, I didn't want it to go to waste, so here it is:


I'm going to place a bet on myself that this remains a ghost town. :yes:
 

Metis

New member
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
2,534
I vote for ISFP. I also appreciate how clearly you formatted this; it's easy to pick out your answers and read them.

I'm not good at explaining why I think someone's a particular type.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
NiFe
Thanks. :) I'm 100% certain I lead with Fi though.

Well, 100% is obviously an exaggeration. I may have one of the most solid self-typings there are, but I still wouldn't say it's 100%.

I guess the question itself was leading, but in your response here...
I can be really obsessed with the object of my desire. I can actually merge to an extent with other people if we have a connection, and especially with my interests. I don't have as many issues with this because I think without obsessing over something, greatness would never be achieved. It all depends on what you obsess over and if something practical can come out of it for best results. However, it's important to be aware of how much of an addictive personality one has and to stay away from potentially destructive areas where it could lead to that, if possible. I need to start taking notes...

... you sound very much NFJ. Obsessing is generally related to Ni, though I guess other types can obsess too, and merging with others and interests is associated with Fe.

Greatness is also something that Ni-doms are likely to talk about.

"Mysterious" also sounds like something that would most fit an Ni-dom.


Why do you believe you are Fi dominant?
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,659
Well, 100% is obviously an exaggeration. I may have one of the most solid self-typings there are, but I still wouldn't say it's 100%.

I guess the question itself was leading, but in your response here...


... you sound very much NFJ. Obsessing is generally related to Ni, though I guess other types can obsess too, and merging with others and interests is associated with Fe.

Greatness is also something that Ni-doms are likely to talk about.

"Mysterious" also sounds like something that would most fit an Ni-dom.


Why do you believe you are Fi dominant?

I see the world through my own perspective/subjective values. I also feel everyone has a right to their own moral system, as I carry a more "live and let live" attitude toward that sort of thing. Plus, I don't really merge with people often, since it's not a huge priority for me. It's mostly interests where I do merge, but if I can somehow make connections with people, then that's awesome, but I'm not one to depend on them either. I feel I'm too self-absorbed to be an Fe user.

Also, I'm terrible with Je. I almost always test very highly as a Pe user. I think the reason I may appear Ni-like at times is because my tertiary Ni improved over the years, starting in my late teens, which I read is a pretty common age range when the tertiary function starts kicking in. Additionally, I was always terrible with abstract stuff like poetry and metaphors growing up. I still don't feel as confident in that area through the written word, but I do pretty well with it visually.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
NiFe
Hmm... well what I can see so far is...

- you strike me strongly as being an N type
- your tertiary does not appear to be Si (and seems to fit with Ti)

However,
- your auxiliary has qualities that I hadn't previously associated with Fe,

So,

I'll do more thinking until I can grasp what is going on there.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
NiFe
Ah, I see what's going on now!

It's like what I do when I see a psycholgist... I'm saying stuff like "here's something about me, here's stuff that happened to me..." - it's Fe directed towards the self. The personal factor of Fe. I have an ENFJ friend who does the same thing.

So it's not quite the identity-focused, introspective self-analysis of Fi. For an NFJ it's like... tracking the trends that have shaped you as a person.

If I've got this right, I can definitely see how that could be misinterpreted as Fi.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,659
Ah, I see what's going on now!

It's like what I do when I see a psycholgist... I'm saying stuff like "here's something about me, here's stuff that happened to me..." - it's Fe directed towards the self. The personal factor of Fe. I have an ENFJ friend who does the same thing.

So it's not quite the identity-focused, introspective self-analysis of Fi. For an NFJ it's like... tracking the trends that have shaped you as a person.

If I've got this right, I can definitely see how that could be misinterpreted as Fi.

Yeah, that's something I do very much indeed, in regards to tracking the trends that have shaped me over the years. However, I thought that was more along the lines of pattern recognition, which I always attributed with Ne. I definitely don't think I have Ne though, since I know what I want out of life and focus in on one specific ideal the most, despite testing pretty highly in Ne in recent years.

I absolutely do consider myself identity-focused and introspective, however. Yet being a 4, I can see how that could cause some confusion. I definitely feel way out of touch with reality compared to, well, pretty much all SFPs though, but I think that could be due to me developing differently in general because I've always leaned more towards the far end of the introverted scale. Fi-Ni looping could possibly be a cause for that.

The massive area I'm having trouble coming to terms with even considering being an INFJ are the issues with abstract thinking during my childhood development, which wouldn't correlate with someone using dominant Ni, let alone Ne. Plus, I also lack structure. I always saw INFJs as humanitarians deep down as well, and I wouldn't say that is something inherent in me, at least compared to the ones I've seen.

This is interesting though. Thanks so much for the feedback.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
NiFe
pattern recognition, which I always attributed with Ne

I don't know if I'm correct about this, but I associate pattern recognition with Ni, and pattern generation with Ne.

Abstract thinking might be an Ne thing too, I'm not totally sure what the term refers to, but the notion of "abstraction", like thinking about a class of objects instead of a specific object, is from what I know, Ne.

Structure in an INFJ isn't what is typically associated with structure. I'll quote what I wrote to RooibosKrayfish:

Legion said:
I think of Si as routine and specifics about what has been or will be done, whereas Ni is about mission and the evolving nature of what has been or will be done.

Te is more task focused - it is largely about how to do things e.g. procedures, whereas Fe is socially focused - it is about navigating the social environment, and putting emotion into what you do.

...though I'll add, that for myself, it would be hard to imagine that I'm good at "navigating the social environment" due to how uninvolved I tend to be in social situations. So it's not always clearly expressed like that.

I think a lot of INFJs probably are humanitarians, but it's not a requirement.

And yeah I wouldn't associate being "out of touch with reality" with an ISFP, but then again, I might describe myself as being out of touch with society/other people, so underplaying the auxiliary+overplaying the tertiary could be an explanation for that too.

Regarding trend-tracking: Ne does a similar thing, where they navigate a trend as it's taking place - they get involved with it. They don't form an internal picture in their mind of it like an Ni type does, they more see what's going on in a generalised sense and try to ride out its movements. Ne is more real-time, Ni is more offline processing.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,659
I don't know if I'm correct about this, but I associate pattern recognition with Ni, and pattern generation with Ne.

Abstract thinking might be an Ne thing too, I'm not totally sure what the term refers to, but the notion of "abstraction", like thinking about a class of objects instead of a specific object, is from what I know, Ne.

Yeah, I suppose they're both associated with patterns, just one focused on possibilities and the other on a single narrative.

Structure in an INFJ isn't what is typically associated with structure. I'll quote what I wrote to RooibosKrayfish:



...though I'll add, that for myself, it would be hard to imagine that I'm good at "navigating the social environment" due to how uninvolved I tend to be in social situations. So it's not always clearly expressed like that.

Ahh okay, this clears things up.

Regarding trend-tracking: Ne does a similar thing, where they navigate a trend as it's taking place - they get involved with it. They don't form an internal picture in their mind of it like an Ni type does, they more see what's going on in a generalised sense and try to ride out its movements. Ne is more real-time, Ni is more offline processing.

That makes total sense now when I process how my mind works, which is geared more towards Ni. I'm much slower paced when it comes to pattern recognition compared to the idea bouncing Ne users. Either way, this has given me something more to ponder and has been wonderfully helpful. Thanks again.
 

Lady Lazarus

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
2,147
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You're an ambitious Ravenclaw. And I am clearly kind of a nerd.

But in all seriousness, I can see why you're considering 4w3, 4w5, and 9w1. You definitely seem to have a heavy 9w1 influence in your personality, there is a lot of gentlenesses there and it even shows up in your questionnaire. But I think you're too purposeful for it to be your core, and that the way you present yourself is multifaceted not half-hearted the way e9 ego attachments can be. I think your gentleness might just derive from high emotional intelligence, which is something I think 4 is one of the types most likely to have. 9's are emotionally intelligent too, but it's more like we just get flooded with flashes of emotions from the external. I think you have something more cerebral than that going on, it seems like you put thought into these matters. Which might factor into social anxiety.

In terms of 4w3, I can see why you'd consider a 3 wing since you do seem to want recognition for your art and talent in the long run. And they're usually portrayed along those lines as opposed to 4w5 who is portrayed as too esoteric to gravitate toward that sort of thing. But I actually don't think that popular impression is actually correct from what I've seen. I think an image type in general would desire recognition, no matter how indie they are lol.

So, what I'm getting at is I've basically always thought you were a 4w5. Though I juxtaposed you against social last 4w5's mostly and you seemed different then so I was a little confused on you for a while. Until Dr Mobius suggested social dom for you then I was like ohhh yeah, that makes sense now. Primarily, the fact that you do seem to be in tune with the images of society, specifically those of counterculture. Which isn't the sort of more outwardly oriented thing that 4w5's are associated with typically and as I said, that stumped me prior. But so dominance accounts for that and the very niche, strange, and obscure nature of your interests doesn't flow well with the more "being palatable" focused quality I've seen in 4w3. Like there's this chthonic quality to you that is kind of similar to what sx/sp of any type has going on in some form or another, but you're overall softer than sx/sp. Which is to say, it's the 4w5 that brings it into play for you and not the sx/sp, like it is for me (notice mine is more plain because I'm a 9). Once when you got mad I kind of also saw the heavier tones of 4w5 come through as well.

I've also noticed, as you mentioned in Plu's thread, that you seem to love gathering information. I feel like I learn something new everytime I talk to you, which is cool. But yes, you don't seem to gather information as a way to enforce the image that you're smart but rather, you only seem to do it because you like information and knowing things. I'm sure you know, one of e5's names is literally investigator haha.

I think 6w5 is the most probable head fix for you given that having interacted with you I think your love of information is one of the most prevalent things I've noticed about you so, a double 5 wing is definitely not out of the question imo. Though I obviously can't tell how well you hide your anixety over the internet.

Anyway, for a while I thought you might be an INFP because I feel that you think so much more abstractly than I do and that words aren't enough to contain all your thoughts sometimes. But I'm not sure how accurate that perception is. Regardless, I went back to ISFP because you ultimately seem more grounded and focused than INFP's. And the fact that I have noticed 4's Fi-Ni loop a lot for some reason I can't quite get at.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,659
You're an ambitious Ravenclaw. And I am clearly kind of a nerd.

But in all seriousness, I can see why you're considering 4w3, 4w5, and 9w1. You definitely seem to have a heavy 9w1 influence in your personality, there is a lot of gentlenesses there and it even shows up in your questionnaire. But I think you're too purposeful for it to be your core, and that the way you present yourself is multifaceted not half-hearted the way e9 ego attachments can be. I think your gentleness might just derive from high emotional intelligence, which is something I think 4 is one of the types most likely to have. 9's are emotionally intelligent too, but it's more like we just get flooded with flashes of emotions from the external. I think you have something more cerebral than that going on, it seems like you put thought into these matters. Which might factor into social anxiety.

In terms of 4w3, I can see why you'd consider a 3 wing since you do seem to want recognition for your art and talent in the long run. And they're usually portrayed along those lines as opposed to 4w5 who is portrayed as too esoteric to gravitate toward that sort of thing. But I actually don't think that popular impression is actually correct from what I've seen. I think an image type in general would desire recognition, no matter how indie they are lol.

So, what I'm getting at is I've basically always thought you were a 4w5. Though I juxtaposed you against social last 4w5's mostly and you seemed different then so I was a little confused on you for a while. Until Dr Mobius suggested social dom for you then I was like ohhh yeah, that makes sense now. Primarily, the fact that you do seem to be in tune with the images of society, specifically those of counterculture. Which isn't the sort of more outwardly oriented thing that 4w5's are associated with typically and as I said, that stumped me prior. But so dominance accounts for that and the very niche, strange, and obscure nature of your interests doesn't flow well with the more "being palatable" focused quality I've seen in 4w3. Like there's this chthonic quality to you that is kind of similar to what sx/sp of any type has going on in some form or another, but you're overall softer than sx/sp. Which is to say, it's the 4w5 that brings it into play for you and not the sx/sp, like it is for me (notice mine is more plain because I'm a 9). Once when you got mad I kind of also saw the heavier tones of 4w5 come through as well.

I've also noticed, as you mentioned in Plu's thread, that you seem to love gathering information. I feel like I learn something new everytime I talk to you, which is cool. But yes, you don't seem to gather information as a way to enforce the image that you're smart but rather, you only seem to do it because you like information and knowing things. I'm sure you know, one of e5's names is literally investigator haha.

I think 6w5 is the most probable head fix for you given that having interacted with you I think your love of information is one of the most prevalent things I've noticed about you so, a double 5 wing is definitely not out of the question imo. Though I obviously can't tell how well you hide your anixety over the internet.

Anyway, for a while I thought you might be an INFP because I feel that you think so much more abstractly than I do and that words aren't enough to contain all your thoughts sometimes. But I'm not sure how accurate that perception is. Regardless, I went back to ISFP because you ultimately seem more grounded and focused than INFP's. And the fact that I have noticed 4's Fi-Ni loop a lot for some reason I can't quite get at.

Seriously, you have a talent at understanding people with such depth and eloquence. It's really quite remarkable.

There is indeed a bit of a competitive streak in me that sp 4w5s seems to lack, so I've always attributed that with a 3 wing before I knew anything about the subtypes. Then somebody later indicated to me that having a desire to make something of yourself doesn't necessarily correlate with 3 either (since 3s are overly ambitious in more ways than just one for the most part) and how it implies a healthy individual overall. It would take any type some level of ambition to really get anywhere in life.

Additionally, there are 4w5 and even some 5 artists, though many probably have the social instinct in their first two stackings if they are a celebrity type or wishing to be well regarded in their craft somehow, which makes sense, given they are willing to put themselves out there in the public eye. In some ways, I can see some flavoring of a 3 wing ever since I found out exactly what I wanted to achieve in life. However, I've never craved much attention nor pushed myself out there hungry for it like I'd imagine a 3 wing would, and it was another issue I had with this wing, as I'm not essentially flamboyant or expressive like an Oscar Wilde type in real life either (except maybe in dress style at times), though I feel I can loosen up a bit on a site like this, which is nice.

On the other hand, I don't consider myself to be that knowledgeable in general, especially after taking note of how cerebral core 5s are on average (though I now understand that being intelligent isn't a primary factor of this type), so at the time I was't confident that this wing could be a possibility despite the majority of the time testing as this type. Then I read how avarice manifests in 5s and realized I've always been extremely guilty of this in certain ways. I thought about including greed as one of the seven deadly sins for this reason, but wasn't sure it would have been appropriate since I don't really mean it in the materialistic sense that the word implies. However, I should have explained it more as hoarding myself from others, which is something I definitely do.

The double 5 wings make sense in manifesting almost like a triple withdrawn tritype, but I definitely know that I have a 6 in there. The anxiety is more underlying than obvious, but it's there. The fears often echo in my mind, yet I don't usually react outwardly until after shit hits the fan because of the strong 4 with probably the 5 wing and 9 in my tritype before the 6. And I'm always trying to find the root cause of everything, especially when there are major issues so I can hopefully understand what's going on in order to solve it myself, like an undercover detective of sorts. I also agree that I have a strong 9w1 gut fix.

The few areas where I've always had issues with the ISFP typing specifically is the extreme idealism, daydreaming, and future thinking since I was really young, which is not by any means associated with the type itself, being merely attributed to NFs. Everything else is pretty spot on though.

I used to care how people would perceive me, but I've pretty much outgrown that now and am interested in what others think mainly out of curiosity, since it doesn't change who I am as a person deep down. Plus, I am always looking for possible blind spots or other interpretations I haven't considered before.

Nevertheless, thank you so much for this incredibly detailed write-up. It's actually reaffirming that someone can see the 5 wing in me, even though I'm sure it's not very apparent at all. I really, really appreciate it. :hug:
 
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