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I don't care if you type me, I just wanted to answer this questionnaire too.

Dr Mobius

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After careful consideration my final conclusion is that you are likely a highly intelligent sea manatee with opposable thumbs. Your eyebrows on the other hand are likely the remnants of some elder god. Whose resemblance has long been defaced from cave paintings by frightened ancient humanoids.
 

Lady Lazarus

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After careful consideration my final conclusion is that you are likely a highly intelligent sea manatee with opposable thumbs. Your eyebrows on the other hand are likely the remnants of some elder god. Whose resemblance has long been defaced from cave paints by frightened ancient humanoids.

Bold of you to assume I have opposable thumbs, Dr Mobius. I feel like my novel length posts devoid of substance and coherence would be better explained by thumb-less sea manatee keyboard smashing.

Also, I am going to take this all as a vote for ESFJ if you don't mind.
 

Lady Lazarus

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Fine. Fine! I care if you people type me.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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You meet a handsome albeit clumsy man/woman (take your pick) in the street but they appear to be unable or unwilling to feed themselves or iron their clothes. How do you go about taking care of this individual?
 

Lady Lazarus

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You meet a handsome albeit clumsy man/woman (take your pick) in the street but they appear to be unable or unwilling to feed themselves or iron their clothes. How do you go about taking care of this individual?

Lol. I don't know how to iron my clothes and am often unwilling to feed myself. So not by ironing their clothes for sure.

So...I'd take them to a restaurant and have a talk with them, give them some money if it turns out they're not just a hipster or something and it's about money, and then give them my phone number if they seem interesting/we click post-talk.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Lol. I don't know how to iron my clothes and am often unwilling to feed myself. So not by ironing their clothes for sure.

So...I'd take them to a restaurant and have a talk with them, give them some money if it turns out they're not just a hipster or something and it's about money, and then give them my phone number if they seem interesting/we click post-talk.

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Since I'm psychic and can already tell I'm going to say ISFP 4 based off that questionnaire alone (and you know at least *one* of those is wrong), I'll scrap that and go with what I already know about you.

9 integrating to cp 6 is 👍.

Now that I'm not as uninformed about ISFJs, I guess I can see that as something more viable than having aux-Se in ISFP. There's more of a dynamic quality with Se, though not in the same vein with the inner strength you portray yourself. Maybe it's because there's more of a “showy” visual/action-based quality with it? Or something along those lines, but you don't seem to hold it in high esteem as other Se users like myself, I think.

Although, I still see a possibility with Ni being prominent in you, and I think that's why everyone seems to assume ISFP at first glance. And I may have inquired about this before in the past, but since you mention this need of congruence, instead of it being attributed to Fe, couldn't that also be connected to being a 9 sx, and even maybe with a possible 1 wing due to this need of consistency in your own set of ideals (i.e. everyone having to agree on the same type for you)? How do you see Si manifest in you, out of curiosity? That's something I've always wondered about, but couldn't really put it together myself, if I'm being completely honest.
 

Lady Lazarus

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Since I'm psychic and can already tell I'm going to say ISFP 4 based off that questionnaire alone (and you know at least *one* of those is wrong), I'll scrap that and go with what I already know about you.

9 integrating to cp 6 is 👍.

Now that I'm not as uninformed about ISFJs, I guess I can see that as something more viable than having aux-Se in ISFP. There's more of a dynamic quality with Se, though not in the same vein with the inner strength you portray yourself. Maybe it's because there's more of a “showy” visual/action-based quality with it? Or something along those lines, but you don't seem to hold it in high esteem as other Se users like myself, I think.

Although, I still see a possibility with Ni being prominent in you, and I think that's why everyone seems to assume ISFP at first glance. And I may have inquired about this before in the past, but since you mention this need of congruence, instead of it being attributed to Fe, couldn't that also be connected to being a 9 sx, and even maybe with a possible 1 wing due to this need of consistency in your own set of ideals (i.e. everyone having to agree on the same type for you)? How do you see Si manifest in you, out of curiosity? That's something I've always wondered about, but couldn't really put it together myself, if I'm being completely honest.

Ok, first of all I want to say that I loved your first post in the e9 creatives thread. You have the level of understanding of e9 that it took me years to get to so I am beyond impressed tbh. Also, I think what I've always admired about 4's is that despite our shared identity confusion you seem to have a lot more purpose/potential for intent and vision in yourselves and your art (should you be artists).

Haha, maybe ISFP 4 should be my "on paper" type.

Actually, lately when I hang out with my ESFP friends it becomes so embarrassingly apparent that I either have poor Se or no Se lol. Of course that assumes I've typed them correctly, but I guess there's no way to prove I have. So, you're right, I don't believe I hold the showy qualities of Se in myself. I can definitely see how you have them in a refined way though based off your vibes.

Can I ask where you see Ni? How do you think of Ni? Other people mention that sometimes as well, so I do wonder about it.

I do think 9 (especially sx synflow) is sensitive to congruence but I think the desire I feel to control the external along those lines, although I don't make it obvious and I control myself out of maturity, is not a 9 thing (although congruence can be attributed to a 1 wing, I think the motivation isn't really about ideals so much as control). In fact it's the opposite of a 9 thing and I feel quite internally conflicted most of the time because of that. I think I just don't try to control my enviornment in the social dom, type with no link to counterphobia (e2) way people usually think of Fe. It's like I do what so/sx e2's do softly in my own harsher so last influenced by cp 6 way if that makes sense. But yeah, I think it becomes really obvious that I am Fe when I am around other strong Fe (to a lesser extent this happens with Te sometimes too) users, because it feels like we are constanly undergoing some sort of power-struggle that will only end when one of us backs down and lets the other's Fe overcome their own.

As for Si, to be perfectly honest I don't have as strong of a case for it as Fe other than what can be found in the process of elimination (Fe, Introvert, Sensor). Although, at this point in my development I mostly see it in myself in a way that was reflected when I read this part of the description a while ago despite it referring to a different context than my situation for the most part:

The Introverted Sensation Type by Jung said:
In general, this type can organize his impressions only in archaic ways, because thinking and feeling are relatively unconscious...As conscious functions, they are wholly incapable of adequately reproducing his subjective perceptions. This type, therefore, is uncommonly inaccessible to objective understanding, and he usually fares no better in understanding himself.

Above all, his development alienates him from the reality of the object, leaving him at the mercy of his subjective perceptions, which orient his consciousness to an archaic reality, although his lack of comparative judgment keeps him wholly unconscious of this fact.
 
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Ok, first of all I want to say that I loved your first post in the e9 creatives thread. You have the level of understanding of e9 that it took me years to get to so I am beyond impressed tbh. Also, I think what I've always admired about 4's is that despite our shared identity confusion you seem to have a lot more purpose/potential for intent and vision in yourselves and your art (should you be artists).

Wow, thank you, especially coming from you. It actually dawned on me the other day when I came across this hippie chick who is so obviously a 9 it hurts, and even thinking for a time the possibility of 9 being my core type as well, but still seeing this certain difference between us in our form of execution. She had one of the most ethereal and creative ways of expressing herself through make-up, costume, art, and music that I've ever seen, but had an aura of humbleness that I just don't have in myself to the extent that 9s typically do, and being called a “snob” frequently by my sister doesn't help in executing that kind of behavior either lol. In my eyes, that humble quality in 9s operates on an epic level of IDGAFness and punk rock territory to me, which is secretly what I really wish I have in myself and try to execute, but naturally don't because deep down I'm a lame, "look at me, I'm a peacock!" 4. The only way to get around that for me is to poke fun at myself for the fact that I can be a bit of pretentious asshat at times. And yeah, besides all that gibberish I just spewed, I see that connection in you as well (besides the hippie part of course lol) and now have a much greater understanding of 9s in general, which is pretty cool because I'm also close to a few of them irl.

And you're right, that lack of drive for purpose is a major difference between my e9 sister and I, besides sharing the same MBTI type. She still has a good grasp of Fi and is even better at understanding it in herself than me at times, but the e9 part always shines through when it comes down to wanting and even searching for that sense of purpose in life as much as I do.

Haha, maybe ISFP 4 should be my "on paper" type.

Hah. People may now actually understand you better on a shallow level like I attempted to plenty of times.

Actually, lately when I hang out with my ESFP friends it becomes so embarrassingly apparent that I either have poor Se or no Se lol. Of course that assumes I've typed them correctly, but I guess there's no way to prove I have. So, you're right, I don't believe I hold the showy qualities of Se in myself. I can definitely see how you have them in a refined way though based off your vibes.

Yeah, from what I've gathered I generally don't have much in common with many of them either to where I wonder the same thing, especially when it comes down to that stable, down-to-earth quality of Se. But the similarities in appreciation for aesthetics, even if they are experienced for different reasons, still remain. I guess the subtle difference of what dom-Fi and tert-Ni bring to the table. Many of the ones I know also have 7 as their core type, and that e-type is so foreign to me, so I can see a greater reason as to why now.

Can I ask where you see Ni? How do you think of Ni? Other people mention that sometimes as well, so I do wonder about it.

To be honest, it's more of a superficial understanding and visceral idea of what it is because of the way you write that is so unlike many of the SFJs I know irl and see online. Your writing can get so abstract that even intuitives on this site have claimed they have a hard time reading what you wrote lol. And also from some of the metaphors I've seen you use in your writing that made me blink once and think Ni must be in there somewhere. You seem, at least from what I've seen you write in the past, to have a natural grasp at understanding metaphor and symbolism in a similar vein to dom-Ni users. I'm fairly certain I remember spotting some form of mythological reference at least on a few occasions, but it's possible my mind is hazy and making things up.

Also, I'm sure much of this is in reference to your current username, but whenever I read your blog posts, I always think about Sylvia Plath (who I think many type as INFJ?) and form connections based on the tone and formality in your posts. And also due to the complexity which, based on my own warped way of forming connections, loosely mirrors the abstractions and grief in her poetry. It may be the reason why I attribute that to dom-Ni, but ended up being hoodwinked instead. That's also another reason why, I think, many assume someone is a dom-Ni/Fi user, but I notice you're smart enough to see through that too, which is pretty remarkable in itself. And I'm still stuck in that complex=Ni/Fi user mode lol.


I do think 9 (especially sx synflow) is sensitive to congruence but I think the desire I feel to control the external along those lines, although I don't make it obvious and I control myself out of maturity, is not a 9 thing (although congruence can be attributed to a 1 wing, I think the motivation isn't really about ideals so much as control). In fact it's the opposite of a 9 thing and I feel quite internally conflicted most of the time because of that. I think I just don't try to control my enviornment in the social dom, type with no link to counterphobia (e2) way people usually think of Fe. It's like I do what so/sx e2's do softly in my own harsher so last influenced by cp 6 way if that makes sense. But yeah, I think it becomes really obvious that I am Fe when I am around other strong Fe (to a lesser extent this happens with Te sometimes too) users, because it feels like we are constanly undergoing some sort of power-struggle that will only end when one of us backs down and lets the other's Fe overcome their own.

Yeah, I was thinking of it in terms of you possibly having a stronger 1 wing than average. The controlling aspect makes sense. That's true that Fe can be controlling, but I'm used to thinking of the harsher aspects of controlling that's more along the lines of a Te user. Maybe it's because when I see the Fe users in my life, everyone around me is the stereotypical effusive type with prominent 2s and social instincts in their stackings, so the intimidating variety doesn't cross my path as often, but it's possible I might have even mistaken some for Te users as well.

As for Si, to be perfectly honest I don't have as strong of a case for it as Fe other than what can be found in the process of elimination (Fe, Introvert, Sensor). Although, at this point in my development I mostly see it in myself in a way that was reflected when I read this part of the description a while ago despite it referring to a different context than my situation for the most part:

Reading that makes some sense now. Although, you've always seemed to have a profound understanding of yourself despite what the last part of the first paragraph indicates, so that's pretty surprising to me.
 

Lady Lazarus

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Wow, thank you, especially coming from you. It actually dawned on me the other day when I came across this hippie chick who is so obviously a 9 it hurts, and even thinking for a time the possibility of 9 being my core type as well, but still seeing this certain difference between us in our form of execution. She had one of the most ethereal and creative ways of expressing herself through make-up, costume, art, and music that I've ever seen, but had an aura of humbleness that I just don't have in myself to the extent that 9s typically do, and being called a “snob” frequently by my sister doesn't help in executing that kind of behavior either lol. In my eyes, that humble quality in 9s operates on an epic level of IDGAFness and punk rock territory to me, which is secretly what I really wish I have in myself and try to execute, but naturally don't because deep down I'm a lame, "look at me, I'm a peacock!" 4. The only way to get around that for me is to poke fun at myself for the fact that I can be a bit of pretentious asshat at times. And yeah, besides all that gibberish I just spewed, I see that connection in you as well (besides the hippie part of course lol) and now have a much greater understanding of 9s in general, which is pretty cool because I'm also close to a few of them irl.

And you're right, that lack of drive for purpose is a major difference between my e9 sister and I, besides sharing the same MBTI type. She still has a good grasp of Fi and is even better at understanding it in herself than me at times, but the e9 part always shines through when it comes down to wanting and even searching for that sense of purpose in life as much as I do.

:laugh: No problem. Well, I think you're great just the way you are and nowhere near lame at all.

It's super interesting to me that anyone would kind of want to be the way e9's are because being the way we are feels so unremarkable to us. I've actually always found e4's to be way more remarkable people. Did you know I actually tried to fight tooth and nail not be labeled as e9? I tried to make everyone agree on either 6 or 4. Then when I accepted 9, it was in a super depressing "I am nothing" way so this is all so weird to me hahah. But in a good way.

Regardless, I'm definitely flattered you see what you described in me as well, minus the hippie part ofc. It took me a long time to get to a natural place, as a teenager I was actually entraced at 3 and so was the opposite of natural. But of course I am incredibly old now so my self-conciousness died years ago in almost all ways.

To be honest, it's more of a superficial understanding and visceral idea of what it is because of the way you write that is so unlike many of the SFJs I know irl and see online. Your writing can get so abstract that even intuitives on this site have claimed they have a hard time reading what you wrote lol. And also from some of the metaphors I've seen you use in your writing that made me blink once and think Ni must be in there somewhere. You seem, at least from what I've seen you write in the past, to have a natural grasp at understanding metaphor and symbolism in a similar vein to dom-Ni users. I'm fairly certain I remember spotting some form of mythological reference at least on a few occasions, but it's possible my mind is hazy and making things up.

Also, I'm sure much of this is in reference to your current username, but whenever I read your blog posts, I always think about Sylvia Plath (who I think many type as INFJ?) and form connections based on the tone and formality in your posts. And also due to the complexity which, based on my own warped way of forming connections, loosely mirrors the abstractions and grief in her poetry. It may be the reason why I attribute that to dom-Ni, but ended up being hoodwinked instead. That's also another reason why, I think, many assume someone is a dom-Ni/Fi user, but I notice you're smart enough to see through that too, which is pretty remarkable in itself. And I'm still stuck in that complex=Ni/Fi user mode lol.

Oh ok, yeah I have no idea what happened to my brain between the ages of 18 and 23 but I blame it all on my weird experiences. I used to be so much more clear and concrete. I do make so many pretentious references because I have to make my useless education in Literature and Philosophy serve some sort of purpose so I can justify it all to myself lol. So, I probably have referenced mythology at some point. I think my go to's are usually Biblical references and Identity (in the sense of metaphysics) because those are things I found a lot of connection to. I think it's most entertaining to me to connect and mix things though so maybe sometimes the references get blurred.

But I am admittedly delighted by the Plath association, even if as you say it is largely about my username, haha. Weirdly enough, "Mirror" is my favorite Plath poem. Anyway, yes, I've most often seen her typed as INFJ, INFP, and ISFP. I could see any of them to be honest.

To get back to the point though, I get what you're saying and I don't think INFJ is out of the question. I think all the Fe aux and dom types are actually plausible suggestions to be honest. For which there are a lot of varying explanations I can see but this post is already so long lol.

Yeah, I was thinking of it in terms of you possibly having a stronger 1 wing than average. The controlling aspect makes sense. That's true that Fe can be controlling, but I'm used to thinking of the harsher aspects of controlling that's more along the lines of a Te user. Maybe it's because when I see the Fe users in my life, everyone around me is the stereotypical effusive type with prominent 2s and social instincts in their stackings, so the intimidating variety doesn't cross my path as often, but it's possible I might have even mistaken some for Te users as well.

Oh I see now. A strong 1 wing is definitely possible. Merced never thought I was a 9 at all, she thought I was a 1w9 lol. And two other people think I'm 416 and 415 with a strong one fix. Which is all kind of surprising. My sister is a 1w9 and we never got along as kids because we were so different. But I do think I've come to understand her more and value similar things to what she does as an adult. My development as a person has been so weird to me.

Though, I think 1's actually primarily want to control themselves and 8's are more the one's who want to control the external, if I recall correctly.

Reading that makes some sense now. Although, you've always seemed to have a profound understanding of yourself despite what the last part of the first paragraph indicates, so that's pretty surprising to me.
Yeah, that part doesn't fit and in general it's not a perfect fit. I suppose I could say I understand my shortcomings and my emotions but I can't one hundred percent understand my epistemic relationships or MO's in that sense either. Which you can definitely see in how much I struggled to answer PD's post. Which is kind of what I think this Si dom description is getting at.

That said, I am definitely not as confident on the Si dom part as I am on the Fe part.

Thank you for your thoughts and for trying to understand why I may type as Fe over Fi. I definitely appreciate that since almost everyone just tends to push ISFP on me (no one in this thread did, surprisingly enough though) without there being any actual dialogue. :hug:
 

Dr Mobius

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Bold of you to assume I have opposable thumbs, Dr Mobius. I feel like my novel length posts devoid of substance and coherence would be better explained by thumb-less sea manatee keyboard smashing.

Also, I am going to take this all as a vote for ESFJ if you don't mind.

I mind muchness, muchness. I don't believe we have the neurological research on sea manatees to make any assumptions.

The issue I always come back to with you is; if you place a filter (sx/sp) between the assumed stimuli/response of a Si dom what does it look-like? Oddly enough that section of chapter 10 you quoted is always the one that rattles around my head when it comes to you.
 

cascadeco

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My personal biggest 'issue' with seeing you as an ISFx is simply my not being able to wrap my head around the Archetypal ISFx -- that propounded in popular culture, online tests, popular and institutional (ie corporate 'testing' of people) understanding of the type - and admittedly you DO see and come across and experience all kinds of people who DO fit the archetypal mode fairly well, or at least it isn't a mind-bend to envision them as one -- and you being part of that grouping.

I'm not snubbing ISF'x in any way, as I have been close to one at least in the past and she was absolutely lovely (after all I may be one even though I for the same reason can't in a lot of ways wrap my head around it making 'sense' to lump me with all of the more archetypal ISFx's in the world).

For me it's more of a... is there a POINT in identifying you as an ISFx when much of what you write seems to counter the more foundational/archetypal aspects of ISFJ? I mean it would be cool to be proven wrong but of all of the ISFJ's in the world, if they all got here online, I'd have a hard time imagining them writing and thinking in the manner that you do -- like a few others have written, I often don't entirely know what you're trying to say or explain -- it's often not super concrete at all, iow. That said, I've seen similar with a few other posters, and it could just be a 'simple' matter of you being so caught up in your own thoughts and not taking the time to 'translate' into more connect-the-dots language. I know sometimes I'll do that, or I'm deliberately not wanting to be really clear about something because I don't want to give the details, so nothing makes sense without the details or people may not know what I'm actually talking about. Don't know if it's similar for you. I hope this makes sense.

I don't honestly know what I'd type you as since I can't wrap my head around these larger 'problems' anymore, haha.
 

Lady Lazarus

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I mind muchness, muchness. I don't believe we have the neurological research on sea manatees to make any assumptions.

The issue I always come back to with you is; if you place a filter (sx/sp) between the assumed stimuli/response of a Si dom what does it look-like? Oddly enough that section of chapter 10 you quoted is always the one that rattles around my head when it comes to you.

In terms of sx/sp, I believe the filter wrings out the light in that what I hone in on in the stimuli is essentially its fundamental "charge", for lack of a better term, that then shapes the subjective/response. And that all may be why on a conscious level I almost feel as if stimuli doesn't play a role in my process yet on an instinctive level I still percieve myself as attached enough to it to identify as a sensor. The "charge" still belongs to the stimuli, it's just not the first thing most other sensors seem to attach to about it. But this is what I use to connect and organize my thoughts in the "archaic" way described in the section. This MO is also why I think Se aux is one of the least likely functional stackings for me, the least likely being Se dom. Neither of them converts stimuli in a way that seems to pile on the constricting subjectivity to the point of being objectively incomprehensible.
 

Lady Lazarus

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My personal biggest 'issue' with seeing you as an ISFx is simply my not being able to wrap my head around the Archetypal ISFx -- that propounded in popular culture, online tests, popular and institutional (ie corporate 'testing' of people) understanding of the type - and admittedly you DO see and come across and experience all kinds of people who DO fit the archetypal mode fairly well, or at least it isn't a mind-bend to envision them as one -- and you being part of that grouping.

Put in room filled with ISFx I do feel as if I wouldn't fit in whatsoever. I'm much more maladjusted and off than the stereotype proposes. Though in terms of ISFJ, most of them are influenced by 2 in some way and therefore it's possible some are just probably better at making the "off" part at least seem something more palatable like "quirky". Granted, 9's do have a type of "outsider complex" with that entire Holy Love thing.

I'm not snubbing ISF'x in any way, as I have been close to one at least in the past and she was absolutely lovely (after all I may be one even though I for the same reason can't in a lot of ways wrap my head around it making 'sense' to lump me with all of the more archetypal ISFx's in the world).

Haha, I've definitely never been able to see you as an archetype of ISFx either.

For me it's more of a... is there a POINT in identifying you as an ISFx when much of what you write seems to counter the more foundational/archetypal aspects of ISFJ? I mean it would be cool to be proven wrong but of all of the ISFJ's in the world, if they all got here online, I'd have a hard time imagining them writing and thinking in the manner that you do -- like a few others have written, I often don't entirely know what you're trying to say or explain -- it's often not super concrete at all, iow. That said, I've seen similar with a few other posters, and it could just be a 'simple' matter of you being so caught up in your own thoughts and not taking the time to 'translate' into more connect-the-dots language. I know sometimes I'll do that, or I'm deliberately not wanting to be really clear about something because I don't want to give the details, so nothing makes sense without the details or people may not know what I'm actually talking about. Don't know if it's similar for you. I hope this makes sense.
No, I don't think there's really a point since this is essentially a system of most plausible approximations when it comes down to it. So it's mostly about the median anyway if descriptions and such are any indication. Then again, there's really not much of a point to MBTI in general haha. At first it was mostly just because I was angry at the fact that everyone wanted to force me into ISFP for some reason. Now I don't put any real stress on it and am most interested in exploring. Which is why I wouldn't say ISFJ is something I feel compelled to try to get everyone to agree on. In that sense this thread is perhaps the healthiest version of a type me thread I've ever made and what I've been trying to get to lately in my 2 other most recent threads of this nature. I would say my type me threads as of late have been most about gauging how I respond to incongruence and learning to balance being open with not being dictated by the external to the point of not trusting my own perception as I did when I was younger. Not to say they're not about trying to understand how others might conceive things, ofc.

Having now thought of things from the angle in the last post, I think being social last plays a significant part in how lacking in comprehensibility I can be. I don't ever percieve myself as having an audience/assume one and so, it's mostly as if I am talking to myself because I have no reason to do anything else. Someone has commented that I seem to be easier to understand in conversation than on the open forum in my isolated posts. I think this is because I can actually tell I am communicating one on one and I can even acknowledge that I need to attempt to tailor what I'm saying a little so that I can impart it to someone else.

I don't honestly know what I'd type you as since I can't wrap my head around these larger 'problems' anymore, haha.

In a lot of ways your comment was much better than being given a type outright, thank you for your thoughts.
 

Luminous

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I don't think I've read anything about Holy Love and 9s. Would you mind elaborating? Thanks.:)
 

Lady Lazarus

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Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
2,147
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I don't think I've read anything about Holy Love and 9s. Would you mind elaborating? Thanks.:)

A quick recap: we come into life at one with a particular aspect of Being (there are nine, known as the Holy Ideas). We soon separate from that state. The ego swoops in, filling that wound and initiating a lifelong attempt to recapture that divine union by simulating it.

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Nines are initially attuned to Holy Love: the deep inner knowing that all of reality is inherently benevolent, loving, and wonderful. This isn't a denial of death, suffering, disease or destruction, but an understanding that, as Maitri puts it, "the fundamental nature of all creation is beneficial and propitious."

Then the separation hits. Suddenly not everything is an expression of love and goodness, but some things are. Some people are. And some aren't. For instance, me. Other people are worthy of love and regard, and of participating in all of the good things in life, but I'm not. So a baseline belief about oneself develops: the feeling of being unlovable, unworthy and unimportant.

The bolded is more or less what I meant with the "a type of outsider complex" part.

Link to the full post: Enneagram Nines and Holy Love

I recommend that book btw.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,659
:laugh: No problem. Well, I think you're great just the way you are and nowhere near lame at all.

It's super interesting to me that anyone would kind of want to be the way e9's are because being the way we are feels so unremarkable to us. I've actually always found e4's to be way more remarkable people. Did you know I actually tried to fight tooth and nail not be labeled as e9? I tried to make everyone agree on either 6 or 4. Then when I accepted 9, it was in a super depressing "I am nothing" way so this is all so weird to me hahah. But in a good way.

Regardless, I'm definitely flattered you see what you described in me as well, minus the hippie part ofc. It took me a long time to get to a natural place, as a teenager I was actually entraced at 3 and so was the opposite of natural. But of course I am incredibly old now so my self-conciousness died years ago in almost all ways.

Thank you. Same goes to you. :hug:

Haha, really? I always thought positively about 9s and love how they can be pretty nonchalant about most things that would otherwise bother me endlessly. But I can see how me saying all of that would be weird for you.

Oh ok, yeah I have no idea what happened to my brain between the ages of 18 and 23 but I blame it all on my weird experiences. I used to be so much more clear and concrete. I do make so many pretentious references because I have to make my useless education in Literature and Philosophy serve some sort of purpose so I can justify it all to myself lol. So, I probably have referenced mythology at some point. I think my go to's are usually Biblical references and Identity (in the sense of metaphysics) because those are things I found a lot of connection to. I think it's most entertaining to me to connect and mix things though so maybe sometimes the references get blurred.

But I am admittedly delighted by the Plath association, even if as you say it is largely about my username, haha. Weirdly enough, "Mirror" is my favorite Plath poem. Anyway, yes, I've most often seen her typed as INFJ, INFP, and ISFP. I could see any of them to be honest.

To get back to the point though, I get what you're saying and I don't think INFJ is out of the question. I think all the Fe aux and dom types are actually plausible suggestions to be honest. For which there are a lot of varying explanations I can see but this post is already so long lol.

Haha. Yeah, that is how I came to the conclusion that I'm most likely a sensor too. It's also pretty embarrassing to admit this because as a teenager I was terrible with abstract language, like deciphering metaphors in poetry and all that. I remember being frustrated, wondering why the hell people couldn't just say what they wanted to say directly instead of talking all this Shakespearean fluff nonsense.

Hmm, okay. I thought INFJ was out of the question for you, tbh. But it makes sense if you're still somewhat unsure about your dominant function.

Oh I see now. A strong 1 wing is definitely possible. Merced never thought I was a 9 at all, she thought I was a 1w9 lol. And two other people think I'm 416 and 415 with a strong one fix. Which is all kind of surprising. My sister is a 1w9 and we never got along as kids because we were so different. But I do think I've come to understand her more and value similar things to what she does as an adult. My development as a person has been so weird to me.

Though, I think 1's actually primarily want to control themselves and 8's are more the one's who want to control the external, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, I wouldn't see that as your core type. I mean, I see an e1 side to you, but you remain rather neutral in areas where I'm sure it wouldn't situate well with core 1s, so it doesn't seem to be a driving force with you.

Yeah, that part doesn't fit and in general it's not a perfect fit. I suppose I could say I understand my shortcomings and my emotions but I can't one hundred percent understand my epistemic relationships or MO's in that sense either. Which you can definitely see in how much I struggled to answer PD's post. Which is kind of what I think this Si dom description is getting at.

That said, I am definitely not as confident on the Si dom part as I am on the Fe part.

Thank you for your thoughts and for trying to understand why I may type as Fe over Fi. I definitely appreciate that since almost everyone just tends to push ISFP on me (no one in this thread did, surprisingly enough though) without there being any actual dialogue. :hug:

Okay, that makes sense. I think Fi users may be unaware at times, but we generally have a much easier time sifting through our own junk in order to figure stuff out if we actually take time to really marinate in it. But in your case, I could see how it would end up leaving you flustered more often than not.

Huh, that's interesting. I always thought our primary function was the most conscious function. At least it is with me, but that could just be due to me being an Fi user too.

No problem. :) I can definitely say that I'm convinced enough to be off the Fi bandwagon now. :wink:
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
NiFe
I believe you're an INFP. You seem to lead with Fi. At first I thought ISFP, but the Si was definitely there.
 
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